Lukewarm Catholicism

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It’s becoming apparent on this forums, I think anyway, why the Church is so weak in the West, and that is lukewarm Catholicism. By this I mean Catholics compartmentalising their faith as a private reality that does not touch their public lives or the lives of others in the public sphere. I guess American politicians are notorious for this kind of attitude. This is especially pertinent with regards to not simply allowing but through silence condoning the promotion and writing into law of gravely immoral practices, practices which will doubtless lead many astray and away from the love of God.

Scripture certainly presents us with a warning on this:
Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes!
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(Matt 18:5-7, RSV)
I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Therefore I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may be rich, and white garments to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nakedness from being seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent.
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(Rev 3:15-19, RSV)

I think taking the stance that we need not worry about non-Catholics and their moral actions in society is like saying, “Well, since he’s your son, Mrs Robinson, I won’t get in the way if he runs onto the freeway; I don’t expect my son to do such a thing, but yours is a different issue”. Those who are not Catholic need to obey the moral law, and we should work to proclaim the truth about it and fight its perversions, especially when such perversions are enshrined in law, that is, publicly declared as right and moral for lifelong conduct.

God help us all to do this with love, but God help us to never waver in it.
 
I’m not sure how to respond to that. Currently, I have strained relationships with many former friends because I have started asserting my faith to them. I have also lost a couple friendships to people who hated me for practicing my faith.

That being said, there are a lot of Catholics in my generation who do not agree with the Church, who believe that abortion is okay and that marriage is not really sacramental, but ever changing with society.

I believe this is why we are called not only to evangelize to non-Catholics, but even to ourselves.
 
I think if you are reacting to what you perceive to be the lukewarm attitude of the day, you may start to tend towards the unfortunate role of relentlessly militant Catholic.

We are supposed to be warriors and on fire for the Lord, yes, but we are called to lead by example through our actions. No amount of vocal evangelization compares to the doings of a man who truly walks in the light.

That being said, I think it’s good for people’s conscience to be awakened from time to time (lest by our silence they think we condone their actions.) But, most importantly, this must be done out of genuine love.

I have a friend who has atheistic beliefs. Whenever we talk about how life has been going and she happens to tell me something that I just can’t not speak out against. I am very careful to always preface what I say with something about how I care for her deeply and am only saying these things out of love for her. She respects me more because of that and doesn’t feel talked down to or threatened. I think most importantly it just lets her know I love her.

Thank you for your time.
 
RedFox0456 said:
I’m not sure how to respond to that. Currently, I have strained relationships with many former friends because I have started asserting my faith to them. I have also lost a couple friendships to people who hated me for practicing my faith.

That being said, there are a lot of Catholics in my generation who do not agree with the Church, who believe that abortion is okay and that marriage is not really sacramental, but ever changing with society.

I believe this is why we are called not only to evangelize to non-Catholics, but even to ourselves.
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Amen to you and your efforts, Red Fox. It definitely is not easy. But as our Lord promised:
And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
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(Matt 19:29, RSV)
 
Camelback320 said:
I think if you are reacting to what you perceive to be the lukewarm attitude of the day, you may start to tend towards the unfortunate role of relentlessly militant Catholic.

We are supposed to be warriors and on fire for the Lord, yes, but we are called to lead by example through our actions. No amount of vocal evangelization compares to the doings of a man who truly walks in the light.

That being said, I think it’s good for people’s conscience to be awakened from time to time (lest by our silence they think we condone their actions.) But, most importantly, this must be done out of genuine love.

I have a friend who has atheistic beliefs. Whenever we talk about how life has been going and she happens to tell me something that I just can’t not speak out against. I am very careful to always preface what I say with something about how I care for her deeply and am only saying these things out of love for her. She respects me more because of that and doesn’t feel talked down to or threatened. I think most importantly it just lets her know I love her.

Thank you for your time.
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Hi Camelback, I agree that we need to evangelise by our love in action more than just by our words. And I know where you’re coming from: my best friend is an atheist and quite mocking of religion. You’re right that unless we love individual people and they know our love, then preaching the Gospel will only have a limited affect.
 
jonathan_hili said:
It’s becoming apparent on this forums, I think anyway, why the Church is so weak in the West, and that is lukewarm Catholicism. By this I mean Catholics compartmentalising their faith as a private reality that does not touch their public lives or the lives of others in the public sphere. I guess American politicians are notorious for this kind of attitude. This is especially pertinent with regards to not simply allowing but through silence condoning the promotion and writing into law of gravely immoral practices, practices which will doubtless lead many astray and away from the love of God.

Scripture certainly presents us with a warning on this:

(Matt 18:5-7, RSV)

(Rev 3:15-19, RSV)

I think taking the stance that we need not worry about non-Catholics and their moral actions in society is like saying, “Well, since he’s your son, Mrs Robinson, I won’t get in the way if he runs onto the freeway; I don’t expect my son to do such a thing, but yours is a different issue”. Those who are not Catholic need to obey the moral law, and we should work to proclaim the truth about it and fight its perversions, especially when such perversions are enshrined in law, that is, publicly declared as right and moral for lifelong conduct.

God help us all to do this with love, but God help us to never waver in it.
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I could not have said this any better myself. Great post. Thank you for all you do to defend the faith.
 
90Domer said:
I think we need a very toned down version of MV, and I am speaking as a fellow alumni of his. That’s a strong statement for me.
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True, his zeal is awesome, as is his love for God and the faith, but he can overdo things.

God bless you too, Domer, for all you do! 👍
 
What we need are less people telling everyone else how they should be living their lives and more people of prayer and peace.

When the world is in a rage and everyone is freaking out, and you go about your business calmly attending to the small tasks God has placed before you, people will notice. When the crisis of the day has everyone upset but we remain calm, peaceful and full of joy, then we will attract people like moth’s to a flame.

Until we can demonstrate this peace and joy people always hear Christians preaching about, we are just hypocrites. If all we do is lecture people about their faith without demonstrating the effects of ours - not just our piety but the peace and joy of being adopted sons of God who are on our way to heaven - then we are just hypocrites.

Pleace and joy starts with prayer. The primary response of a Christian to God’s offer of love is prayer. That’s where it begins.

-Tim-
 
Yes, Tim, you are right.

But you are also wrong.

We live in a democracy and are called to be active citizens in the culture of life. Our Church calls us to do this. As you say, we should do so in peace, not rage; in love, not hatred; in light, not heat; but nevertheless we must preach the truth for this is what we are called to do.
 
To the OP - definitely. Italian mobsters were notorious for compartmentalizing their faith - they’d come out of Church and then stab a guy with an ice pick on a hit an hour later. Kennedy claimed to be Catholic, Joe Biden does so now, and other politicians do too. Best thing we can do is emphasize ‘walking the walk’ and taking the faith seriously - rather than just ‘talking the talk’ or identifying with but not following the tenets of the faith.
 
TimothyH said:
What we need are less people telling everyone else how they should be living their lives and more people of prayer and peace.

When the world is in a rage and everyone is freaking out, and you go about your business calmly attending to the small tasks God has placed before you, people will notice. When the crisis of the day has everyone upset but we remain calm, peaceful and full of joy, then we will attract people like moth’s to a flame.

Until we can demonstrate this peace and joy people always hear Christians preaching about, we are just hypocrites. If all we do is lecture people about their faith without demonstrating the effects of ours - not just our piety but the peace and joy of being adopted sons of God who are on our way to heaven - then we are just hypocrites.

Pleace and joy starts with prayer. The primary response of a Christian to God’s offer of love is prayer. That’s where it begins.

-Tim-
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I like this post a great deal. Reminds me of my parents.

During an era when the KKK was quite active and quite anti-Catholic and when all the 'best" people belonged to it, my father went about his work quietly and far more diligently than most. He was “just” an insurance agent, but he learned his trade extraordinarily well. He knew it upside and down. Some of the local Mason/KKK aristocrats of the town would call him at home to do business with him because he was very diligent at what he did and could give them good advice. But they didn’t want to be seen going into his place of business for fear that brother Masons (coextensive with the KKK back then) would see them do it and disapprove.

He was a charitable man, and sometimes carried poor people on his books. He and my mother sponsored a family of immigrants from Poland…displaced persons who had been Nazi slaves.

My parents often said “don’t wear your religion on your sleeve, act it out”. By that they meant to be restrained, not pushy, not highly vocal about religion, but to calmly explain if someone asked about it, never deny it in whole or in part if the subject came up, never excuse it. Don’t hide that you don’t eat meat on Friday, but never speak of it unless asked. Be an exemplary person. Eventually, most everybody knew they were Catholic. I don’t know that he or my mother ever converted anybody, but their lives were examples of what a Catholic man and woman could be.

That anti-Catholicism around here is almost completely gone now, and I like to think my parents had a hand in that. Our parish has a lot of converts.

The one thing my father did do, always, was put a crib in his office window at Christmas. That was at a time and place when nobody but Catholics did that. (“graven images” you know) It was his one public expression; his one “wearing religion on his sleeve”. All others were private.
 
jonathan_hili said:
It’s becoming apparent on this forums, I think anyway, why the Church is so weak in the West, and that is lukewarm Catholicism. By this I mean Catholics compartmentalising their faith as a private reality that does not touch their public lives or the lives of others in the public sphere. I guess American politicians are notorious for this kind of attitude. This is especially pertinent with regards to not simply allowing but through silence condoning the promotion and writing into law of gravely immoral practices, practices which will doubtless lead many astray and away from the love of God.

Scripture certainly presents us with a warning on this:

(Matt 18:5-7, RSV)

(Rev 3:15-19, RSV)

I think taking the stance that we need not worry about non-Catholics and their moral actions in society is like saying, “Well, since he’s your son, Mrs Robinson, I won’t get in the way if he runs onto the freeway; I don’t expect my son to do such a thing, but yours is a different issue”. Those who are not Catholic need to obey the moral law, and we should work to proclaim the truth about it and fight its perversions, especially when such perversions are enshrined in law, that is, publicly declared as right and moral for lifelong conduct.

God help us all to do this with love, but God help us to never waver in it.
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👍:thumbsup:Awesome:thumbsup:👍
 
“But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth.” 2 Timothy 1-7

I interpret the part “those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins” as the abortion debate because women who are burdened with sins (unwanted pregnancies) are at the center of the abortion debate. They are the ones being told lies such as “it’s not a baby, it’s a choice” and “it’s your right to do it” and “it’s a war on women if you can’t get your abortions”. The propaganda makes it’s way into every household by way of television.
 
jonathan_hili said:
It’s becoming apparent on this forums, I think anyway, why the Church is so weak in the West, and that is lukewarm Catholicism. By this I mean Catholics compartmentalising their faith as a private reality that does not touch their public lives or the lives of others in the public sphere. I guess American politicians are notorious for this kind of attitude. This is especially pertinent with regards to not simply allowing but through silence condoning the promotion and writing into law of gravely immoral practices, practices which will doubtless lead many astray and away from the love of God.

Scripture certainly presents us with a warning on this:

(Matt 18:5-7, RSV)

(Rev 3:15-19, RSV)

I think taking the stance that we need not worry about non-Catholics and their moral actions in society is like saying, “Well, since he’s your son, Mrs Robinson, I won’t get in the way if he runs onto the freeway; I don’t expect my son to do such a thing, but yours is a different issue”. Those who are not Catholic need to obey the moral law, and we should work to proclaim the truth about it and fight its perversions, especially when such perversions are enshrined in law, that is, publicly declared as right and moral for lifelong conduct.

God help us all to do this with love, but God help us to never waver in it.
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I’m with you, Jonathan. We are all called to live a unity of life, and not to live a double life. “Oh I’m catholic, I participate in every Sunday Mass…” And yet this person goes home and watches some T.V. shows, dramas or movies that offend the sacred heart of Jesus, for example. In Church we are this kind of person, but outside, we are another kind of person. As Christians, we must live this unity of life, but not just by words, but actions, deeds. Some things that can help you getting from being Lukewarm to be Hot for God are:
  • Constant prayer no matter where you are.
  • Mortification (Sacrifice) for the love of God or for a particular intention. For example: “I don’t want to study now…I don’t feel like it, but I’ll do it, God, for the conversion of [name].” Or you have carrots already served on your plate: “I hate carrots, but I’ll offer this mortification to you, God.” And you eat it. There are many different ways to do mortification.
  • Be the example
  • Be busy with God
  • Do not have human respects. Before all, we are sons and daughters of God. We should not have human respect before God and our faith.
[BIBLEDRB]Ephesians 6:12[/BIBLEDRB]

Blessings,
Elizabeth
 
Ridgerunner said:
I like this post a great deal. Reminds me of my parents.

During an era when the KKK was quite active and quite anti-Catholic and when all the 'best" people belonged to it, my father went about his work quietly and far more diligently than most. He was “just” an insurance agent, but he learned his trade extraordinarily well. He knew it upside and down. Some of the local Mason/KKK aristocrats of the town would call him at home to do business with him because he was very diligent at what he did and could give them good advice. But they didn’t want to be seen going into his place of business for fear that brother Masons (coextensive with the KKK back then) would see them do it and disapprove.

He was a charitable man, and sometimes carried poor people on his books. He and my mother sponsored a family of immigrants from Poland…displaced persons who had been Nazi slaves.

My parents often said “don’t wear your religion on your sleeve, act it out”. By that they meant to be restrained, not pushy, not highly vocal about religion, but to calmly explain if someone asked about it, never deny it in whole or in part if the subject came up, never excuse it. Don’t hide that you don’t eat meat on Friday, but never speak of it unless asked. Be an exemplary person. Eventually, most everybody knew they were Catholic. I don’t know that he or my mother ever converted anybody, but their lives were examples of what a Catholic man and woman could be.

That anti-Catholicism around here is almost completely gone now, and I like to think my parents had a hand in that. Our parish has a lot of converts.

The one thing my father did do, always, was put a crib in his office window at Christmas. That was at a time and place when nobody but Catholics did that. (“graven images” you know) It was his one public expression; his one “wearing religion on his sleeve”. All others were private.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you had great parents! What a extremely lucky person you are:)
 
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