Lukewarmness Revelation 3:16

[Chiefsinner]

This is the meaning of that threat which our Lord
makes to the tepid: Thou art neither cold nor hot; I would
thou wcrt cold or hot: but because thou art lukewarm . . .
will begin to vomit thee out of My mouth? How wonderful !
He says, I would thou wert cold ! What ! and is it better
to be cold, that is, deprived of grace, than to be tepid ?

Yes, in a certain sense it is better to be cold; because a
person who is cold may more easily change his life, being
stung by the reproaches of conscience; whereas a tepid
person contracts the habit of slumbering on in his faults,
without bestowing a thought, or taking any trouble to
correct himself; and thus he makes his cure, as it were,
desperate.

St. Gregory says, “Tepidity, which has
cooled down from fervor, is a hopeless state.”

Source Page 333 - Holy eucharist - St. Alphonsus Ligouri

He gave St. Faustina an intention to pray for on each day of the Novena, saving for the last day the most difficult intention of all, the lukewarm and indifferent of whom He said:
"These souls cause Me more suffering than any others; it was from such souls that My soul felt the most revulsion in the Garden of Olives. It was on their account that I said: ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass Me by.’ The last hope of salvation for them is to flee to My Mercy

So from all this it seems Lukewarmness is state in which people assume they are in a state of grace but deliberately commit venial faults?

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is the footnote from the Aquinas Study Bible

**3:16 **For the one who is cold and not tasted the living faith, will often be in hope of attaining it. But the one has been warmed through baptism in the Spirit and has cooled later through laziness, has cut off for himself the hopes of salvation, having condemned the chosen faith. *(St. Andrew of Caesarea) *Those who are hot, that is fervent, while by divine preaching they are daily rendered better ; and those who are cold, that is infidels, as whenever Jews or Pagans are converted to Christ by the preaching of the faith, and numbered among the society of holy men. The lukewarm, however, they do not convert, because these despise their words, having grown torpid in security. Hence they cease from exhorting them, and abandon them as unfruitful ground, because they see it is impossible to reform them and bring them to a better state of life. For it is easier to bring any pagan to the Christian faith than to recall such persons from torpor to fervency of spirit. (Haimo of Auxerre)

 

[Chiefsinner]

Thanks for the reply it was very helpful and thank you for the link on your sig… Great site

 

[Jerry-Jet]

All followers who love Jesus must have ZEAL!

 

[mgoforth]

So from all this it seems Lukewarmness is state in which people assume they are in a state of grace but deliberately commit venial faults?

I think of “lukewarm” as meaning that we’re not enthusiastic about Christ or living our faith. It’s going through the motions of being part of the Church, without any passion. It’s attending Mass on Sunday and then forgetting about God the rest of the week. It’s doing the bare minimum and feeling content.

 

[jerryinbaok]

As a cradle Catholic that only now, after 50 years of life is earnestly fighting the nature of lukewarm and doing more than ever to renew, relearn, extend, and increase the depth of my faith, I find this information somewhat distressing.

However I made a promise to myself, the Virgin Mary and to God, for which only after one month of commitment I am experiencing a new level of fight against my vices and an increasing momentum in living a more fulfilling life.

I may be simply misinterpreting the meaning of lukewarm, cold and tepidity but regardless rather I am or not, I’m going to fight my vices, continue to nurse my faith, and pray for realization of the promises of the Rosary. I intend to save my soul and with the encouragement of the Blessed Mother and Grace of God, I will.

 

[Chiefsinner]

From my understanding of lukewarm it seems to be a state where you are in a state of sin and you aren’t doing anything to overcome it.

This is what I used to do…

→ Comparing yourself with others and saying others are worse sinners than I am and god will forgive me

( This is what I used to do and I didn’t make any effort to overcome the small sins I was committing)

 

[Abu]

On this question of being lukewarm, it may help also to know how judging and viewing our own and others’ actions are seen in Sacred Scripture. St Paul in 1Tim 6:12 tells us to “Fight the good fight of faith…”

It is very important not to judge a person’s guilt before God as commanded (Mt 7:1-5). We are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).

But it is vital to follow the command to judge all actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth, and it may help us to orientate ourselvres.

Christ and His Church’s Scriptures tell us:

“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).

“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).

“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

“I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed…” (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).

“I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.” (1 Cor 10:15).

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

We can’t judge according to truth by being mesmerized by others and giving them adulation, but according to the teaching of Christ’s Church, Her Tradition and Her Scriptures.

 

[mikekle]

I think of “lukewarm” as meaning that we’re not enthusiastic about Christ or living our faith. It’s going through the motions of being part of the Church, without any passion. It’s attending Mass on Sunday and then forgetting about God the rest of the week. It’s doing the bare minimum and feeling content.

I agree with that 100%. A little while back when I was reading alot about the Nephilim and giants in the OT, I was a bit surprised at the life long catholics I know in my own family that had attended mass every week since childhood and claimed to be devout in their faith, but when I asked about this topic and a few other things, they had never even heard of this before, and were quite amazed when I showed this to them in the bible, They claimed this was the first they had heard of this, It really made me wonder if my family is mostly just going thru the motions and are lukewarm.

I think many people are going to be shocked when they die (myself included) and find out what life was all about and how they fell short. I think a good majority of people at the largest parish in my area, are in it just for sake of being there. If it came down to it, I could not see any of these people willing to die for their faith, in fact I think in that situation, most would drop their faith very quickly.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Where I once worked we discussed problems with getting some people to perform effectively. I was noted that it is easier to correct someone who is doing wrong than someone who is retired on the job. "You can’t steer a parked truck."

 

[TimothyH]

We have to be careful about assuming that someone is lukewarm just because they don’t display the outward excitement or enthusiasm which we think they should.

Nobody likes a cartoonish Christian, yelling “Jesus! Jesus!” but falling apart at the first sign of tribulation, or the guy who wears a crucifix bigger than the Bishops pectoral cross and does 101 devotions but is obnoxious and abrasive. Outward excitement is not a replacement for a lively interior life. I live in the South - I see it every day - so much outward zeal for God that nobody wants to be around the person.

There are very many holy people, people of great virtue and little sin, who pass through life unnoticed, quietly giving to the poor, visiting the sick, praying, praying, praying, atoning, atoning, atoning.

Think of Mary.

-Tim-

 

[Ed_Silvia]

This is the meaning of that threat which our Lord
makes to the tepid: **Thou art neither cold nor hot; I would
thou wcrt cold or hot: but because thou art lukewarm . . .
will begin to vomit thee out of My mouth?

So from all this it seems Lukewarmness is state in which people assume they are in a state of grace but deliberately commit venial faults?**

I would say yes and the pending results/solution:
Rev :19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Chiefsinner]

*We have to be careful about assuming that someone is lukewarm just because they don’t display the outward excitement or enthusiasm which we think they should. *

Nobody likes a cartoonish Christian, yelling “Jesus! Jesus!” but falling apart at the first sign of tribulation, or the guy who wears a crucifix bigger than the Bishops pectoral cross and does 101 devotions but is obnoxious and abrasive. Outward excitement is not a replacement for a lively interior life. I live in the South - I see it every day - so much outward zeal for God that nobody wants to be around the person.

**There are very many holy people, people of great virtue and little sin, who pass through life unnoticed, quietly giving to the poor, visiting the sick, praying, praying, praying, atoning, atoning, atoning. **

Think of Mary.

-Tim-

This is very true many people might do all that and aren’t enthusiastic.

 

[Chiefsinner]

I would say yes and the pending results/solution:
Rev :19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

There is a lot covered about lukewarmness written in that book in great detail If I were to post it all over here would take around 10-20 pages.

I’ve added some more info

How was this ? since it is
only mortal sin that is punished in hell. The Holy
Spirit supplies the answer, when he says, He that despiseth
small things shall fall by little and little? He who
makes no account of deliberate venial sins will easily
fall into those which are mortal; because by habitually
offending Almighty God in small things he will not have
much dread of sometimes offending him in great things;
and because by continually withdrawing himself from
God, he provokes God not to afford him those special
helps without which he will easily be overcome by
powerful temptations.

Abandon me not, O Lord, to such a misfortune; grant
that I may rather die; have pity on me.

1. He who soweth sparingly, shall also reap sparingly?
   With justice does God withhold his graces from the soul
   that loves and serves him slothfully. Hence saith the
   prophet, Cursed is he who doeth the work of God deceitfully?
   He therefore who serves God deceitfully, must commit
   a great evil. **The grievous sinner,
   conscious of his crimes, confesses them; but the tepid
   Christian, deeming himself to be better than others because

he is not guilty of great sins, lives on in the mire
of his defects, and does not humble himself.**

O my God ! I have by my tepidity closed up the
avenue of those graces which Thou wast willing to be
stow upon me. Help me, O Lord ! for I am resolved to
amend my life. There is no reason why I should be
sparing with Thee, who hast given Thy life for me.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, help me; in thy patronage
I confide.

Page 150-151 - The way of salvation and perfection by Alphonsus Ligouri

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The lukewarm are periodically in a state of grace but more times than not are in a state of mortal sin.

If you are in a state of mortal sin for a larger amount of time than you are in a state of grace then you have a greater chance of being vomited out of Our Lord’s mouth and going to Hell !

Basically Catholics who only go to confession once a year should be concerned–if you only go to confession that infrequently are you really “working out your salvation with fear and trembling” as St. Paul told us to do in the Holy Bible?

Is it possible to go to confession that infrequently and still be in a state of grace? Of course.

Is it likely? That’s the real question.

Going to mass only on Sunday is the bare minimun-going to confession once a year is the bare minimum–does it make sense to shoot for the bare minimum to avoid going to Hell? Of course not!

Don’t believe the modernism UNIVERSALIST crowd around here who extol God’s Mercy so far that they abrogate God’s justice!

People who do that are the lukewarm.

There is a level BETWEEN being on fire for God and being in a state of mortal sin. That level is lukewarmness–it results in Hell! If lukewarmness did not exist the Holy Spirit wouldn’t have inspired the bible writers to write of it!

Lukewarmness results in Hell while simultaneously God’s mercy exists–they are not contradictory.

What does not exist is universalism.

What also doesn’t exist is hidden universalism==you’ll recognize it around here when people say “The church has never said definitely that anyone is in Hell”. These universalists want you to believe that since the church hasn’t definitively stated that anyone is in Hell then because of God’s mercy that probably no one–including Judas is there.

That is complete garbage!

One of the reasons that there is lukewarmness that Satan loves and that will result in souls going to hell is this very kind of thinking.

If no one fears Hell–then people will engage in sin because they do not worry about going there.

In reference to going to Hell there is no difference between a Protestant who believes in Once Saved Always saved and a Catholic who always does the bare minimum and is lukewarm–they go to the SAME Hell!

I am not advocating rigorism or Feeneyism. Jesus said “The road to eternal life is narrow and rocky and FEW there are that find it.”

FEW will NEVER mean majority–it will NEVER include the lukewarm!

If you’re a lukewarm Catholic better than a majority of the sinners in the world you can still go to Hell!

There’s a reason why we ask Mary to pray for us sinners–NOW and in the hour of our death–that reason is that it is also POSSIBLE–no matter what we’ve done in our christian lives–to wind up going to Hell! We can always fall into mortal sin–the lukewarm always DO!

The only way to stay on fire for God is to always pray and always ask for God’s mercy.

God is MERCIFUL and will grant Heaven to a soul that does that. God will never grant Heaven to the lukewarm–and yes–the universalists will go to Hell BECAUSE they oppose the teaching of the Catholic Church–but more importantly than that–they aid Satan in bringing souls to Hell by indirectly influencing them to think that being LUKEWARM will be good enough. It won’t be good enough for BOTH Catholics and non Catholics.

The reason it won’t be good enough for even non Catholics is because even someone who knows nothing of the bible will KNOW that being LUKEWARM violates the natural law which is written on ALL people’s hearts!

For all souls on planet Earth Either be hot for God or spend eternity being hot in Hell!

 

[Simca]

I read an interesting thing about being cold. Jesus was making an analogy about water when he urged us to be either hot or cold. Hot water … you can make tea or coffee, you can take a nice hot bath or shower, you can sterilize things with hot water. It is very useful, Cold water is very useful also. On a hot day, cold water is very refreshing. Freezing water-or ice-is particularly useful.

So I think Jesus was saying… Be useful in my Kingdom. Be like salt that has a flavor. Allow God to use you and your gifts.

 

[Chiefsinner]

I read an interesting thing about being cold. Jesus was making an analogy about water when he urged us to be either hot or cold. Hot water … you can make tea or coffee, you can take a nice hot bath or shower, you can sterilize things with hot water. It is very useful, Cold water is very useful also. On a hot day, cold water is very refreshing. Freezing water-or ice-is particularly useful.

So I think Jesus was saying… Be useful in my Kingdom. Be like salt that has a flavor. Allow God to use you and your gifts.

Very true… Great post.

 

[Reuben_J]

Another way to understand lukewarm is to be in our comfort zone with no willingness to get out of it.

 

[fred_conty]

I think lukewarm means someone who shows various degrees of disinterest in anything spiritual. The range can go from little to overwhelming. And there is so much to watch to prevent this from happening in anyone’s life. There are pockets of carelessness in the spiritual garment. How many times has a person dodged seeing what they should see, since it would take too much effort to correct it if seen. So blindness plays a part of this mediocrity.

This principle of illness of our union with Jesus applies to all in different ways. We fail to arouse our interest in weeding out the seeds of the devil which will eventually take us over. It is simply too much work to pull the weeds out. So we sit down in the shade of laxity to get relief from the heat of working while our own garden is taken over. And the tendency is to become use to looking at the weeds we have and becoming blind to them.

This is the cause of the block in making advances toward union with Jesus. It is important to know what is holding someone back. And if this is worked on, then tepidity is overcome even if mortal sins are being committed. God looks at the effort not at the success, that is the heart of a person.

I wonder sometimes when I hear that so many catholics are joining the evangelical churches, whether this may be the right move in the eyes of God. For before they may have been indifferent to their catholic faith, but these churches seem to arouse their interest and devotion to Jesus. They seem to bring alive what was dead in them. I’m not advocating this but just making an observation. And I can’t help but notice when they return to their catholic faith how different they are towards it than when they left it.

I also wonder how much indifference is spread by our own bad example. Maybe others who are indifferent would not be if we prayed better, and attended the sacraments reverently, and were all that we should be to co-workers. Others are looking for something to motivate them out of their lethergy and are we giving it to them?

May God bless us one and all.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

but because thou art lukewarm . . .
will begin to vomit thee out of My mouth?

How wonderful !

The action of the vomiting could be understood from here:

“Deeds again form the basis of Christ’s evaluation (cf. 2,2.19; 3,1.8) of the church. Without any exceptions, the entire church is on the point of divine rejection because it is lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold. Although this remark is phrased in terms that recall the temperature and quality of the water supply in this city (lukewarm, insipid and nauseous due to high limestone content), in contrast to the temperature of the water at the neighbouring cities of Colossae (cold) and at Hieropolis (hot), it clearly refers to a spiritual state that can, and must, be corrected. The nature of this shameful state is specified by what follows in the text.”

“For you say: “I am rich and have plenty and there is nothing I need”, and you do not know that you are the wretched one, pitiable and poor and blind and naked. (18)I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich, and white clothes so that you may dress yourself and not expose the shame of your nakedness, and ointment to anoint your eyes so that you may see.” (Ap 3:17:18)

“The church’s main problem is an attitude of self-sufficiency, due to her financial and material wealth. The truth is that she lacks all the things she thinks she has in abundance. Because she does not even know she is in need of these things, she is even more pitiable than those who are aware that they lack them, because she is deceived.”

This two quotes have been taken from the commentary here:

newtorah.org

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.