lukewarmness?

[mediatrixx]

“But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.” - Revelation 3:16

This phrase bothers me immensely. Sometimes I wish Jesus was a little more specific with things like this. What I am wondering is, how can you tell if you are lukewarm? How can you tell where you stand with God–if you are in His grace, or offending Him?

I try to live a Catholic life, but I fail sometimes. Scratch that. I fail often. And so I never know where I stand.

I wish there was some way to check and see how you are doing spiritually–report cards from God, maybe. Or are we not meant to know how we are doing?

Anyone know where I’m going with this? I am wondering if I am lukewarm. I’m not sure what God expects of me.

 

[redkim]

“But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.” - Revelation 3:16

This phrase bothers me immensely. Sometimes I wish Jesus was a little more specific with things like this. What I am wondering is, how can you tell if you are lukewarm? How can you tell where you stand with God–if you are in His grace, or offending Him?

I try to live a Catholic life, but I fail sometimes. Scratch that. I fail often. And so I never know where I stand.

I wish there was some way to check and see how you are doing spiritually–report cards from God, maybe. Or are we not meant to know how we are doing?

Anyone know where I’m going with this? I am wondering if I am lukewarm. I’m not sure what God expects of me.

Are you passionate about your faith?

 

[mediatrixx]

Are you passionate about your faith?

I don’t know. I’m not sure. That’s my problem. =(

 

[redkim]

I don’t know. I’m not sure. That’s my problem. =(

If you’re passionate about it, you know it. You probably are lukewarm. But the good news is that you are also probably coming out of this lukewarmness because you’re asking about it.

 

[Pax]

This is a great question. The best part is that you have taken note of this passage of scripture and you wish to examine yourself in light of it. This is a positive sign.

Love of God is to be the most important thing in our lives. This is made clear by the first of the two great commandments. If God is not the center of our lives then we are probably luke warm. If God is near the bottom of our system of priorities then we are probably “luke warm” or even “cold.”

God’s love for us is like a “consuming fire.” We should ask God to take our hearts and to touch them with the consuming fire of His love. We should ask God to return our hearts to us like burning coals. Our hearts are to burn with love for God. This is a life long process of deepening our love for God. All of our human relationships are but a shadow of the eternal relationship we are to have with God. We are wired for relationships and the ultimate relationship that we have is with God.

Every good thing and every positive aspect of our spiritual lives along with an unselfish love of our fellow man flows from our relationship with God. If this is what you want, if this is what you pray for, if this is what you strive for, then you are not luke warm. God loves us and we are to love him with our whole heart, mind, soul, and strength.

I hope this helps.

 

[NotWorthy]

I had trouble with this passage wondering why lukewarmness is worse than being cold. I finally realized (ahhhh, experience…) that sometimes one needs to reach the bottom before coming back up.

But when someone is lukewarm, they are lackadaisical with their faith and think this is good enough to get to heaven. One doesn’t feel the need to convert when one is lukewarm.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

We were once discussing some problem employees. Some were busy off on their own tasks rather than contributing to the desired ends; others were retired on the job. We found the first group preferable. As someone stated; *You can’t steer a parked vehicle. *Note the example of Saint Paul.

 

[Brian_Millar]

I like that analogy Joe, it seems most people are retired at their jobs, I never heard it phrased that way.

I think one of the indications that you are on fire and not luke warm is how the world reacts to you, if you are in it’s favor, beware, for you are following it’s luke warm path. There is much said in the word about how you should watch out if men start to praise you, for they are of the world.

Now, if we can just get these luke warmies out of the mainstream and out of our way, we would make some real progress, it’s too bad you are required to be luke warm just to fit in, just to be heard.

 

[Santhosh_Ebroo]

It is hard for us to persevere in our friendship with Jesus if we are constantly evaluating ourselves to see whether we are measuring up to some standard, which often, we ourselves construct. What is of essence in our friendship with God is the love we put into it, and the love we put into our contrition when we know we have been unfaithful to his love, whether in small things or in big.
I think what is necessary is to set a minimum we try to do, for love, daily. Daily Mass and communion (if that is possible), some time spent in prayer (that’s always possible), staying with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, frequent confession (as often as we need it, and on a fixed basis which we can decide), spiritual direction with someone who understands our personal circumstances and who is also struggling to love God can all help.

It is important for us to understand that God does not require the impossible from us, and often, He just waits for us to be sorry for the evil we have done or the good we have failed to do. However, a plan of life, suitably adapted to one’s personal circumstances is indispensable. Otherwise, we will be tossed to and fro by our moods, feelings, the pressures on our time etc.

I hope this has been helpful.

May God grant you his peace.

 

[NotWorthy]

First of all, welcome to the Forums, Santhosh!!!

It is hard for us to persevere in our friendship with Jesus if we are constantly evaluating ourselves to see whether we are measuring up to some standard, which often, we ourselves construct. What is of essence in our friendship with God is the love we put into it, and the love we put into our contrition when we know we have been unfaithful to his love, whether in small things or in big.

I find that each Lent I’m using a measuring stick on myself to compare my relationship with God. This has helped me discover that each year, I’ve “raised the bar” so to speak - tried a little harder, worked at loving Him a little more. But also, each year this task becomes easier.

I think what is necessary is to set a minimum we try to do, for love, daily. Daily Mass and communion (if that is possible), some time spent in prayer (that’s always possible), staying with Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, frequent confession (as often as we need it, and on a fixed basis which we can decide), spiritual direction with someone who understands our personal circumstances and who is also struggling to love God can all help.

Sorry, but I think setting a “minimum standard” is what leads Christians to the “lukewarm” attitude. If we sit down and ask ourselves, are you trying hard enough to be with the One you love, the answer should always be, “No, I could strive harder”. The moment we think we’ve reached that minimum standard, it just means that we should pick up our Cross and start trying all over again.

It is important for us to understand that God does not require the impossible from us, and often, He just waits for us to be sorry for the evil we have done or the good we have failed to do. However, a plan of life, suitably adapted to one’s personal circumstances is indispensable. Otherwise, we will be tossed to and fro by our moods, feelings, the pressures on our time etc.

I hope this has been helpful.

May God grant you his peace.

Yes, He doesn’t require the impossible from us, but with His help, nothing is impossible.

God Bless!!!

P.S. and welcome again!!!

 

[puzzleannie]

do you see the face of Christ in the poor, in those who make demands on you, in those who irritate you, and in those whom you are commanded by your vocation in life to love and serve?

 

[cheeto1]

Once a priest told us that the people being spoken to here,
the Laodacians, were from a city whose main income was
producing a special cream which people would buy and use
for the improvement of health. In order to make this cream,
they needed to use very hot water combined with very cold
water. If the water was lukewarm, it could not be used to
make the cream. Isn’t that an interesting story?

When people asked John the Baptist “what must I do to be
saved?” They were probably a little disappointed with the
answers he gave. “If you have 2 cloaks, give one to the one
who has none. If you are in the army, do violence to no man
and be satisfied with your wages.”

Later on, after receiving the loaves and fishes, people followed
Jesus and asked Him, “What must we do to do the work of
God?” And He answered, “this is the work of God: to believe
in the one whom He sent, Jesus Christ”. How is that work?

One day a homeless woman approached me on church grounds
and asked for money. I didn’t have any, so I brought her to the
priest. He told her, “I’m sorry, I don’t have time, I have to teach
a class”. Some children gave her things from their lunches, and
she was very grateful and happy. I wonder if the priest had
ever worried about being lukewarm. I wonder if the children ever
did. I don’t think so.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. .

Now, if we can just get these luke warmies out of the mainstream and out of our way, we would make some real progress, it’s too bad you are required to be luke warm just to fit in, just to be heard.

We used to have a poster of a little duck shouting at the others: Lead, Follow, or Get out of my way!

 

[MarieVeronica]

Anyone know where I’m going with this? I am wondering if I am lukewarm. I’m not sure what God expects of me.

Well, I THINK I do understand. Because I often wonder too… the same thoughts cross my mind. Am I lukewarm? How do I know if I’m doing enough? Is Our Lord pleased with me? Or is He raising His eyebrow, and saying “Come on MV, get with it”. And on and on. Honestly, I can drive myself batty some days… with wondering.

But I believe there is Hope. And that Hope is in the message which Our dear Lord gave to St. Faustina… concerning His Divine Mercy. If you have not read it, already… you might want to pick up a copy of the Diary of St. Faustina… and read it.

There are those who will say… “Oh, that’s only private revelation”. Maybe so… but it is approved by the Church, to the point where you now see the Divine Mercy Image in just about every Catholic Church you enter… and the Feast of Mercy, is officially celebrated the first Sunday after Easter. So… I believe it to be fully trustworthy message of Hope. God bless.

 

[mediatrixx]

Well, I THINK I do understand. Because I often wonder too… the same thoughts cross my mind. Am I lukewarm? How do I know if I’m doing enough? Is Our Lord pleased with me? Or is He raising His eyebrow, and saying “Come on MV, get with it”. And on and on. Honestly, I can drive myself batty some days… with wondering.

Yes, exactly! I am worried that since I fall short so often, I am not doing well enough. I will definitely check out St. Faustina’s diary now. Thank you.

 

[Santhosh_Ebroo]

First of all, welcome to the Forums, Santhosh!!!

I find that each Lent I’m using a measuring stick on myself to compare my relationship with God. This has helped me discover that each year, I’ve “raised the bar” so to speak - tried a little harder, worked at loving Him a little more. But also, each year this task becomes easier.
Sorry, but I think setting a “minimum standard” is what leads Christians to the “lukewarm” attitude. If we sit down and ask ourselves, are you trying hard enough to be with the One you love, the answer should always be, “No, I could strive harder”. The moment we think we’ve reached that minimum standard, it just means that we should pick up our Cross and start trying all over again.
Yes, He doesn’t require the impossible from us, but with His help, nothing is impossible.

God Bless!!!

P.S. and welcome again!!!

Many thanks for the welcome. I feel happy that I am off to a “running start”.

Firstly, I agree with (I’m sorry I don’t know the name of the individual who graciously left a reply to my reply. Ha! Ha! Ha!) you that living by a minimum standard is the first step to lukewarmness. I mean minimum standard to be understood as a framework on which our daily lives are, for want of a better word, “lived”. An analogy is turning the ignition of a car on, so that one is able to drive it. The speed of the car is very much under our control, so to speak (if it is in good working condition, if we are good drivers, if the roads are motorable etc), but if we do not turn the ignition on, we will be unable to drive the car. Similarly, a sportsman who does not have a daily regimen for training cannot be expected to be in tip-top shape in order to compete in a major event.

Similarly, I think the minimum I’m suggesting provides the Holy Spirit the means by which he with our co-operation, can raise the bar constantly, in this process of our sanctification. The aim is holiness, or more accurately, the vision of God in heaven.

A minimum is just that, a minimum, sort of like the starting point, and one that we can hold ourselves to. At the end of the day, our sanctification depends on God in a way we can never fully understand in this life. And yet, as St Augustine reminds us “God who made you without you will not save you without you”.

We cannot expect ourselves to grow in love by adopting a “minimalist approach”. One does not tell one’s spouse how much one loves him/her only on one’s wedding anniversary.

I am asking that we all aim at having what is referred to in the Catholic tradition as a plan of life. Of course we can all love more daily. We often do not. That of itself does not mean that we are lukewarm, weak and sinful maybe, but not lukewarm, at least not necessarily. We must constantly seek to Believe more, Hope more, Love more. That, I think, is the sum total of sanctity.

Thank you once more for the welcome.

Santhosh.

 

[NotWorthy]

Many thanks for the welcome. I feel happy that I am off to a “running start”.

Firstly, I agree with (I’m sorry I don’t know the name of the individual who graciously left a reply to my reply. Ha! Ha! Ha!) you that living by a minimum standard is the first step to lukewarmness. I mean minimum standard to be understood as a framework on which our daily lives are, for want of a better word, “lived”. An analogy is turning the ignition of a car on, so that one is able to drive it. The speed of the car is very much under our control, so to speak (if it is in good working condition, if we are good drivers, if the roads are motorable etc), but if we do not turn the ignition on, we will be unable to drive the car. Similarly, a sportsman who does not have a daily regimen for training cannot be expected to be in tip-top shape in order to compete in a major event.

Similarly, I think the minimum I’m suggesting provides the Holy Spirit the means by which he with our co-operation, can raise the bar constantly, in this process of our sanctification. The aim is holiness, or more accurately, the vision of God in heaven.

A minimum is just that, a minimum, sort of like the starting point, and one that we can hold ourselves to. At the end of the day, our sanctification depends on God in a way we can never fully understand in this life. And yet, as St Augustine reminds us “God who made you without you will not save you without you”.

We cannot expect ourselves to grow in love by adopting a “minimalist approach”. One does not tell one’s spouse how much one loves him/her only on one’s wedding anniversary.

I am asking that we all aim at having what is referred to in the Catholic tradition as a plan of life. Of course we can all love more daily. We often do not. That of itself does not mean that we are lukewarm, weak and sinful maybe, but not lukewarm, at least not necessarily. We must constantly seek to Believe more, Hope more, Love more. That, I think, is the sum total of sanctity.

Thank you once more for the welcome.

Santhosh.

OK, I think I understand what you are saying. I may have just been exerting my own teaching challenges onto you. I work with teens on a retreat. These kids are wonderful and incredibly blessed. I’ve touched on the parable of the talents more than once with these kids to explain to them that the minimal required to them is a much higher bar than the minimal required from someone who has had a much tougher life than most of these teens.

Think of it as playing in the Super Bowl against an AFC team that is drawn from lottery. If you win, you go to heaven. Do you prepare to play against a weak team and simply pray that you are up against the Miami Dolphins? Or do you prepare yourself in a way that you can beat even the New England Patriots. That way, no matter what team you come up against, you still have the ability to get to heaven.

Of course, you’ve got to understand that kids understand sports analogies. Well… at least the boys do. I still struggle with the girls. I’m working on a blind date with Brad Pitt or David Spade, but there are still kinks in the analogy. Evidently some girls dig David Spade in a pixie-ish kind of way…