Luminous mysteries of the rosary and traditonalist

[historyb]

I’m not a traditionalist, if by traditionalist you mean one who looks askance at the Second Vatican Council and who in his heart of hearts longs for the elimination of Novus Ordo masses.

That’s basically what I mean.

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Now as far as the rosary for the OP.

When I left it was a heated thing to use the extra mysteries or not in some places. Now that I’m back it seems not to be, it’s even hard to find a site with just the old mediations on them anymore.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

The Rosary is the ‘poor-man’s psalter’. There were 150 (I may have got the numbering in this post wrong) psalms and so 150 Hail Mary’s are appropriate. It just makes a beautiful connection.

There is no problem with using the Luminous mysteries…but I feel like it is another devotion that uses the rosary beads (like the Divine Mercy chaplet) but not neccesarily the traditional Rosary (like the one Our Lady of Fatima had in mind)

I find certain Luminous mysteries difficult to meditate upon the way I usually do, so it just ‘feels’ like a different experience for me. (the wedding at cana is one of those kind of out-of-place mysteries for me…but thats just my opinion)

I don’t think its a big issue though if somone believes they should be used just like the Sorrowful, Glorious, and Joyful mysteries are used.

 

[HailMary]

I find certain Luminous mysteries difficult to meditate upon the way I usually do, so it just ‘feels’ like a different experience for me. (the wedding at cana is one of those kind of out-of-place mysteries for me…but thats just my opinion)

This post may help you understanding the Mystery at Wedding at Cana.

As far as I am concerned, the Rosary is a prayer that helps us get closer to God. And if an addition or subtraction to it accomplishes that, then surely it should be implemented.

When the filioque clause was added to the Niecene Creed (we went back to an older creed in the Chaldean rite earler this month with the reforms), it helped people understand the Procession a little more. Theology is progressive; so is prayer (petitions, vocal, meditation (mental), contemplation (gift) ).

And honestly, who can argue that the Mysteries of Light are not fruitful to mediate on?

I think embracing takes courage and when guided by the Spirt of Truth, we should not fear it.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

This post may help you understanding the Mystery at Wedding at Cana.

As far as I am concerned, the Rosary is a prayer that helps us get closer to God. And if an addition or subtraction to it accomplishes that, then surely it should be implemented.

When the filioque clause was added to the Niecene Creed (we went back to an older creed in the Chaldean rite earler this month with the reforms), it helped people understand the Procession a little more. Theology is progressive; so is prayer (petitions, vocal, meditation (mental), contemplation (gift) ).

And honestly, who can argue that the Mysteries of Light are not fruitful to mediate on?

I think embracing takes courage and when guided by the Spirt of Truth, we should not fear it.

I understand the Wedding at Cana perfectly, I just have a method of reflection that I apply to all the original mysteries that doesnt seem to work as smoothly with the Wedding at Cana. I can meditate on it fine, as can you choose your own ‘mysteries’ to meditate on. I just dont personally find it fits with the rest of the Rosary.

And I agree, it is always fruitful to meditate on aspects of the faith.

I just prefer the Rosary the way I was taught by my parents, since it calls to mind the many discussions my father had with me over the original mysteries.

 

[HailMary]

Also, if you are not part of the THE ROSARY CONFRATERNITY you can read about it and join at

rosary-center.org/

 

[Anima_Christi]

I don’t pray them. Besides all of the symbolism and identification with the Psalter which is lost, in all of her apparitions where she spoke on the Rosary (and there are many), Our Lady never once said anything about a need for more mysteries. With all due respect, it seems that they are yet another novelty JPII introduced during his pontificate. I think his words were “to breathe fresh life” into the rosary–AS IF it needed “fresh life”! So although there is certainly nothing wrong with the “mysteries of light” themselves, I don’t include them in the rosary.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

I don’t pray them. Besides all of the symbolism and identification with the Psalter which is lost, in all of her apparitions where she spoke on the Rosary (and there are many), Our Lady never once said anything about a need for more mysteries. With all due respect, it seems that they are yet another novelty JPII introduced during his pontificate. I think his words were “to breathe fresh life” into the rosary–AS IF it needed “fresh life”! So although there is certainly nothing wrong with the “mysteries of light” themselves, I don’t include them in the rosary.

Yes…thats what I believe as well.

Its fine if you say Hail Mary’s while meditating on the New Mysteries…just dont call it the Rosary.

 

[mommyof4]

I don’t know that I’d exactly call myself a traditionalist. But I do have an opinion.

It always felt somewhat odd to me that the traditional mysteries jumped straight from Jesus’ infancy to His passion and death, and skipped right over the very significant events of His ministry. It’s not like Mary wouldn’t have been a part of them (after all, she was there in Cana, wasn’t she)?

So I like 'em and pray 'em

Yep - I’m with you. I love 'em. Especially the Establishment of the Eucharist.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

I’m with trc and AnimaChristi. When they were published a few years ago I was still kind of a kid so it was, “OK, whatever.” A few months ago though praying the Rosary with my dad in the car he said something about liking the original ones, or not having heard of the new ones, or something. Sort of “If it’s good enough for Mary it’s good enough for me”. (He’s not traditionalist, he came up with it on his own.)

They’re good for meditation but the Rosary was already doing fine especially with the symbolism of the Psalter. Also to be honest it makes me marginally less inclined to pray the complete Rosary, since it takes longer. (Not that I do that often.)

But I don’t have a problem with saying them in groups if those are the ones they are using. Basically I read the Pope’s statement on it and I think he said “They are a suggestion, you don’t have to use them” so lately I don’t… Actually today I had a mental discussion with myself over it since the order of mysteries for days of the week that I know is with them included so I had to decide which to say today.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t interrupt the rest of the Rosary though - I still make sure to say the Joyful mysteries on Mondays and Thursdays, Sorrowful Tuesdays and Fridays and Glorious on Wednesdays and Saturdays.

Luminous are a good addition for Sundays though, (since we celebrate the Eucharist on that day), or for days where I am inclined to pray more of the Rosary.

And it’s the FORM that makes it a Rosary - decades of 10 Hail Mary’s, recited while meditating on the EVENTS of Jesus’ and Mary’s lives. Doesn’t even matter what specific events they are.

And to be sure Mary has expressed approval of the Rosary, but it’s not set in stone, nor is it her personal property. There are all sorts of additions and interpolations people make between the decades or at the end of each set of Mysteries. I doubt that any two people (or groups of people) say it in precisely the same way in fact.

And she may not have mandated extra mysteries, neither did she determine the initial 15, and she certainly could let us know if she DISapproved (as if additional meditation on Christ’s life could POSSIBLY make it any less the Rosary or less acceptable to her!)

This is an example of what seems to me to be clinging on to traditions for their own sake which have no inherent value. Just MHO.

 

[scaron]

Not really connected, but I occasionally use this form of the Rosary when meditating on the life of Christ after Mass.

This is beautiful. A thousand thanks AJV.

Tho I often say the rosary in the car - this one would be tough to say while driving!

 

[LilyM]

This is beautiful. A thousand thanks AJV.

Tho I often say the rosary in the car - this one would be tough to say while driving!

Well I don’t doubt you’d memorise it pretty well after a while.

But it really goes to show how variable the form of the Rosary has been, doesn’t it!

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes…thats what I believe as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anima Christi
I don’t pray them. Besides all of the symbolism and identification with the Psalter which is lost, in all of her apparitions where she spoke on the Rosary (and there are many), Our Lady never once said anything about a need for more mysteries. With all due respect, it seems that they are yet another novelty JPII introduced during his pontificate. I think his words were “to breathe fresh life” into the rosary–AS IF it needed “fresh life”! So although there is certainly nothing wrong with the “mysteries of light” themselves, I don’t include them in the rosary.

Its fine if you say Hail Mary’s while meditating on the New Mysteries…just dont call it the Rosary.

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I fall in your camp. The rosary wasn’t broke—it did not need fixin.

 

[AJV]

This is beautiful. A thousand thanks AJV.

Tho I often say the rosary in the car - this one would be tough to say while driving!

I just copied it into MS Word and made a booklet, and I carry that to church Probably I will get down later ot actually memorising it…maybe…

It’s actually a transition between the “Marian psalters” and the later forms. The Marian psalters originally began by interpreting the psalms in a Marian light, then moved on to a litanic form incorporating a Marian title and a life of Christ. When I have time (which will not be for two weeks at least), I will try and type them out. Some are quite nice…divided into 3 sets the first beginning with Ave, the second with Salve, the third with Gaude.

Ave, virgo, Christi puerpera,
Cure quo iucundaris in aethere,
Vitam meam, exoro prospera,
Ut hac oda te laudem libere

And a little later:

Salve, virgo, arbor fructifera,
Fructum ferens vitae perpetuae,
Pia mater, nostra facinora
Dele et ab hoste nos erue.

Still later:
Gaude, virgo, cuius iustitia
Manet ex hoc nunc et in saeculum,
Me habeto tunc in memoria,
Cum incumbit mortis periculum.

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It was not always that the rosary meant 150 Ave’s. The Carthusians had a 50 Hail Mary *vita Christi * one which was also called the psalterium (which fell almost completely out of use when St. Pius V gave to the Domincans sole ‘ownership’ (sorry, couldn’t get the correct word) over the rosary [more in this vein, it was only the the 80’s that rosaries could be blessed by any priest: before that it had to be blessed by Dominicans or you had to have a special faculty)].

Perhaps the words at the end of one of the first rosary handbook Von dem psalter vnd Rosenkrancz might be helpful to think about:

If you should have greater devotion by another method, take it for your own, only let this laudable prayer be spoken with diligence and devotion insofar as it is possible and proper for each one

 

[Genesis315]

I never even knew they were new when I first discovered the Rosary and began praying it. The Luminous quickly became my favorites, in fact. I have since experienced all the miracles and benefits described by St. Pius V and other Dominicans, and the likes of St. Alphonsus Liguori and other very Marian saints. So, they can’t be all that bad .

I also find them to be the most distinctly Catholic focusing on the Sacraments, Marian intercession, and the current regin of Christ (as opposed to the “millenium” taught by many protestants nowadays).

 

[mommyof4]

I never even knew they were new when I first discovered the Rosary and began praying it. The Luminous quickly became my favorites, in fact. I have since experienced all the miracles and benefits described by St. Pius V and other Dominicans, and the likes of St. Alphonsus Liguori and other very Marian saints. So, they can’t be all that bad .

What are the miricals they describe?

 

[Genesis315]

I find certain Luminous mysteries difficult to meditate upon the way I usually do, so it just ‘feels’ like a different experience for me. (the wedding at cana is one of those kind of out-of-place mysteries for me…but thats just my opinion)

Even if you do not use this mystery in the Rosary, I HIGHLY suggest meditating on it–maybe do some lectio divina on the pertinent verses in John 2.

There is so much there. The beginning of Our Lord’s public ministry, Mary revealed as the new Eve (Woman) prophecied in Genesis 3, the intercession of Mary and her apparent authority over the very plan of God, etc., etc.

 

[Genesis315]

What are the miricals they describe?

Most importantly the miraculous conversion and inflaming of hearts in charity, the acknowledgment and repentence of sins, the destruction of heresy, and the penetration of the Light of the true faith.

 

[mommyof4]

Most importantly the miraculous conversion and inflaming of hearts in charity, the destruction of heresy, and the penetration of the Light of the true faith.

Ah…ok. I’ve been saying the rosary daily for almost a year…

I credit the rosary for coming back into the church. I was what I call a “relaxed Catholic” for over 20 years - only going to church when it was covenient (which wasn’t very often), never said any formal prayers, etc. Last lent I got the idea to begin saying the roasary everyday for lent. Well, so far, I’ve done a big change in some areas of my life. I’ve been to mass every weekend and Holy Day, been to weekly mass as often as possible, go to Eucaristic Adoration weekly, began to be more active in my parish, and very importantly, began doing a much better job catechising my children. My conversion all began with saying the rosary. And yes, I’m still in need of a lot of conveting too, believe me!

I guess those Saints knew what they were talking about when the said that the rosary would change people, huh?

 

[netmilsmom]

When saying the Rosary with a group, I meditate on whatever they are using.

Alone, Sorrowful Mysteries only. It makes my day go easier when I remember what He did for me and suddenly the world doesn’t look so bad.