Luminous Mysteries

[DianaCC]

With his 2002 Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae, John Paul II suggested a revision of the traditional 15 mysteries of the rosary, adding five taken from Jesus’ earthly ministry and altering the weekly pattern of days on which a given group of five mysteries are followed in daily recitation. Although popular, his suggestions have not been universally received with enthusiasm.

What unprejudicial arguments can be made against the new group of mysteries?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

With his 2002 Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae, John Paul II suggested a revision of the traditional 15 mysteries of the rosary, adding five taken from Jesus’ earthly ministry and altering the weekly pattern of days on which a given group of five mysteries are followed in daily recitation. Although popular, his suggestions have not been universally received with enthusiasm.

What unprejudicial arguments can be made against the new group of mysteries?

I do not see that any can be made as the Rosary is a private devotion one is free to pray it as they wish.

***** edit *****
After thinking about this a bit more there is one argument that I can see. That is the use of the Rosary as a replacement by the laity for the praying of the Liturgy of the Hours. That the 15 Mysteries has 150 Hail Marys which can be seen as replacing the 150 Psalms from the Hours.

 

[Dorothy]

I am so glad that the Luminous Mysteries were suggested by Blessed John Paul II.

Yes, the Rosary is a private prayer and it is not mandated, though suggested, that certain mysteries are said on certain days. I don’t always follow the suggestions for certain mysteries on certain days, but I do want to diversify what mysteries I meditate on. The suggestions make a lot of sense.

It just seems nit picky to me to complain about the Luminous Mysteries being added to the Mysteries of the Holy Rosary.

 

[TuAutem]

While I personally do pray the Luminous Mysteries, because I feel that they are worthy subjects for mediation, I also strongly feel that the association between the 150 Hail Marys of the rosary and the 150 psalms of the divine office is *fundamentally *important to the rosary.

Rosarium Virginis Mariae, however, does *not *in fact add mysteries to the rosary at all, despite what is often said. JPII is merely proposing the luminous mysteries as something the faithful might find useful in adding to their devotional practice. But in my reading of the text, he is still careful to say that it is the original mysteries that form the “true” ‘psalter of Our Lady’. (Maybe not in so many words, however–it has been a while since I read it.)

So to my mind, the 150 Hail Marys of the traditional devotion form the heart of the rosary, and the Luminous Mysteries are NOT five new mysteries added to the devotion, but rather an optional addition, on top of the traditional devotion, which the faithful are invited to make use of if they so desire. This is what I think Rosarium Virginis Mariae is saying.

 

[puzzleannie]

With his 2002 Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae, John Paul II suggested a revision of the traditional 15 mysteries of the rosary, adding five taken from Jesus’ earthly ministry and altering the weekly pattern of days on which a given group of five mysteries are followed in daily recitation. Although popular, his suggestions have not been universally received with enthusiasm.

What unprejudicial arguments can be made against the new group of mysteries?

there is no justification, none, for declaring something wrong with the suggestion made by a pope that Catholics meditate on these events in the life of Christ through the rosary. Nothing was mandated, there is no force of law, there is no sin in either praying or not praying the rosary, so somebody that has a beef about meditating on these gospels has a severe problem. Somebody who has a beef accepting spiritual teaching and guidance from a pope has a worse one.

 

[laszlo]

The luminous mysteries fit for the Solemnity of Corpus Christi, culminating in the mystery of Eucharist.

 

[PJM]

=DianaCC;8038504]With his 2002 Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae, John Paul II suggested a revision of the traditional 15 mysteries of the rosary, adding five taken from Jesus’ earthly ministry and altering the weekly pattern of days on which a given group of five mysteries are followed in daily recitation. Although popular, his suggestions have not been universally received with enthusiasm.

What unprejudicial arguments can be made against the new group of mysteries?

It that it is a continuation o events in the Life of Christ worth commeration: NONE

God Bless,
Pat

 

[corsair]

I personally will not recite the Luminous Mysteries because I do not like “tinkering” with one of the last untouched traditions. I fully realize that the Rosary is a private devotion and therefore there is no correct formula for its recitation. An example can be seen in the differences between the Franciscan and Dominican methods.

It is really a personal thing and I choose not to say the Luminous.

 

[jsaldar]

I don’t see anything negative. I pray and meditate on all the mysteries including the luminous. To me you are still praying the same rosary, the number of prayers Hail Marys and Our Fathers don’t change.

 

[Chatter163]

What unprejudicial arguments can be made against the new group of mysteries?

What is an “unprejudicial argument?” An argument, by definition, takes a position, which means that it is not impartial.

 

[DianaCC]

This is what I had in mind:

• The original 15 line up nicely with the 150 psalms, as mentioned above by another poster; adding five severs the historical connection.
• They also line up nicely in a seven-day cycle when Sundays are devoted to the mysteries of the liturgical season (e.g. joyfuls on Mondays & Thursdays, sorrowfuls on Tuesdays & Fridays, gloriouses on Wednesdays & Saturdays, with Sundays devoted to the liturgical season, that is, joyfuls during advent, sorrowfuls during lent, and gloriouses during Easter & ordinary time); inserting the luminouses on Thursdays and moving that day’s joyfuls to Saturdays chops up the rhythm.
• On a thematic note, a unifying characteristic shared by the original 15 was that each mystery involved a tension between activity and passivity; each event was simultaneously something that Jesus or Mary did and something that was done to them, such as in the annunciation, Mary is visited by the angel and *actively chooses *Yes; at the finding in the temple Mary *suffers loss *of Jesus yet *goes about searching *for him; and so on; the five new mysteries largely do not share that theme of cooperation between action and passion, between God’s initiative and man’s response, between grace and nature.
• Nor do the new five share the characteristic of being a story about the relationship between Mary and Jesus; both figures are main characters of each of the 15, while the character of Mary virtually disappears in the baptism and transfiguration.
• The original 15 were also easy to depict in iconography, and some great works of art have been devoted to them (as well as some movies ) but the third luminous mystery is quite broadly defined and is not tied to a specific event; this poses a difficulty for someone who would meditate on it.
• A private revelation promoting the devotion of the Five First Saturdays recommended a fifteen-decade rosary in conjunction with 15 minutes of eucharistic adoration (Fatima, in 1917, 85 years before RVM); a 20-decade rosary only fits awkwardly into this context.
• The question suggests itself: The five new mysteries suggested by John Paul II largely resemble another suggested set whose origins I don’t know much about, apart from their promotion by Roland Walls’ 1990 book The Royal Mysteries, viz. baptism, temptation, transfiguration, triumphal entry, and eucharist; since this set met with extremely modest success among the faithful at large, by implication shouldn’t this initial reaction frame the faithful’s estimation of the Holy Father’s suggestion? Or to put it bluntly, may one not say, “We tried that before and the sensus fidelium, with its inerrant receptivity, largely ignored it”?

Finally, to be sure, there are arguments in favor, but that’s not what I was asking.

 

[DianaCC]

What is an “unprejudicial argument?” An argument, by definition, takes a position, which means that it is not impartial.

LOL What I had in mind, Chatter, was arguments that assume the new five are imprudent or inopportune and then retrofit an opposition, like these:

• Change is bad.
• No pope who approves altar girls is gonna change MY rosary.
• Mary gave the rosary to Dominic and if she wanted the extra mysteries she would have added them herself.
• The new five were added to increase Vatican revenue to force people to buy updated 20-decade rosaries to offset the cost of all those settlements. (This is my personal favorite.)

 

[Swiss_Guy]

LOL What I had in mind, Chatter, was arguments that assume the new five are imprudent or inopportune and then retrofit an opposition, like these:

• Change is bad.
• No pope who approves altar girls is gonna change MY rosary.
• Mary gave the rosary to Dominic and if she wanted the extra mysteries she would have added them herself.
• The new five were added to increase Vatican revenue to force people to buy updated 20-decade rosaries to offset the cost of all those settlements. (This is my personal favorite.)

You forgot “I don’t like the Luminous mysteries”

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I think that the 150 hm’s and 150 Psalms is somewhat important for the rosary - symbolism, etc. I sometimes pray the Luminous mysteries (just cause the pope JP2 said its a good idea) on Thursdays, but other times pray the Joyful as it goes with the Psalm symbolism and cause I like the Joyful mysteries better. I pray one set a day, not the whole thing.

 

[Danquayle76]

This might sound like a “cop-out” but I have a hard enough time saying the Rosary without the Luminous Mysteries.

 

[jja619]

This might sound like a “cop-out” but I have a hard enough time saying the Rosary without the Luminous Mysteries.

Start saying it daily, and you’ll get the hang of it soon enough. At least, that’s what’s helped me recently.

And the other mysteries are pretty simple. Just follow the life of Jesus in chonological order.

Joyful:
Annunciation, Visitation, Birth, Presentation, Finding in the Temple
Sorrowful:
Agony in the Garden, Scourging at the Pillar, Crowning of Thorns, Carrying of the Cross, the Crucifixion
Glorious:
The Resurrection, Ascension, Descent of the Holy Spirit, Assumption, Coronation

Then the Luminous ones would fall between the Joyful and Sorrowful mysteries:
Baptism in the Jordan, the Wedding at Cana, The Proclamation of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration, and the Institution of the Eucharist.

 

[thistle]

I like The Luminous Mysteries because they are the public ministry of Jesus. With them included The Rosary now covers the entire earthly life of our Lord.

To those who say the “original” Rosary of 150 Hail Mary’s corresponds to the 150 Psalms I am not convinced of that.
Prior to the Luminous Mysteries there were 153 Hail Mary’s and not 150. For me those 153 correspond to the 153 fish caught by the Apostles in John 21 symbolising the great number of people to be converted by the Apostles.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I like The Luminous Mysteries because they are the public ministry of Jesus. With them included The Rosary now covers the entire earthly life of our Lord.

To those who say the “original” Rosary of 150 Hail Mary’s corresponds to the 150 Psalms I am not convinced of that.
Prior to the Luminous Mysteries there were 153 Hail Mary’s and not 150. For me those 153 correspond to the 153 fish caught by the Apostles in John 21 symbolising the great number of people to be converted by the Apostles.

That as well as the fact that there are other prayers in the Rosary, what do they correspond to?

As I stated in my earlier post, I have heard that the Rosary was used as a replacement for the LoTH but that is “what I heard” I have yet to run into anything documenting this.

The Rule of St Albert (the rule for us Carmelites) has the Our Father being said by those who do not know how to pray the canonical hours. A different number for each of the hours, 25 for Compline (except for Sundays and Solemnites when it is 50), 7 for Lauds and the other hours except for Vespers which is 15.

I believe the 150 argument is a creation to match the Psalms and it is only reached when one ignores the 3 Hail Marys that you pray before you start the mysteries.

 

[Genesis315]

I think the argument concerning the parallel with the Psalms is only really valid if you’re praying the whole thing at once (ie all 150 Aves).

On the other hand, the weekly has an extra 50 anyway (there’s two complete Psalters and one extra 50 each week) so I don’t think it messes with the Psalm in that case.

From my understanding of the history of the Rosary, Our Lady didn’t give it as is. Praying 150 Aves on beads predated St. Dominic by centuries. What she did was encourage Dominic to spread the devotion of praying the Angelic Psalter to combat heresy and gave promises regarding it. St. Louis de Montfort says she said the following in Secret of the Rosary:

“I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach my Psalter.”

So I think the Psalter aspect is very important. However, the specific mysteries varied even among Dominicans for centuries after the death of St. Dominic.

 

[Chatter163]

LOL What I had in mind, Chatter, was arguments that assume the new five are imprudent or inopportune and then retrofit an opposition, like these:

• Change is bad.
• No pope who approves altar girls is gonna change MY rosary.
• Mary gave the rosary to Dominic and if she wanted the extra mysteries she would have added them herself.
• The new five were added to increase Vatican revenue to force people to buy updated 20-decade rosaries to offset the cost of all those settlements. (This is my personal favorite.)

Do you mean that you actually believe that one cannot believe that the addition of five additional mysteries was imprudent, without recourse to nonsense such as the above? That seems hard to swallow.

Blessed John Henry Newman believed that Blessed Pius IX’s definition of the Immaculate Conception as dogma was imprudent and inopportune, but he still believed in the dogma.