Luminous Mysteries

[DianaCC]

…Praying 150 Aves on beads predated St. Dominic by centuries… However, the specific mysteries varied even among Dominicans for centuries after the death of St. Dominic.

So you’re saying the faithful over a long time and with much consideration and through real-life practice settled on that particular set of 15 mysteries when they did have a real choice and many options to choose from. That would be an unprejudicial argument against the new five.

 

[DianaCC]

Do you mean that you actually believe that one cannot believe that the addition of five additional mysteries was imprudent, without recourse to nonsense such as the above?

Do you actually believe that I actually believe that one cannot believe that?

 

[Chatter163]

Do you actually believe that I actually believe that one cannot believe that?

Yes, I do. Given your posts in #1 and 12, that would seem to be your position.

 

[lizaanne]

there is no justification, none, for declaring something wrong with the suggestion made by a pope that Catholics meditate on these events in the life of Christ through the rosary. Nothing was mandated, there is no force of law, there is no sin in either praying or not praying the rosary, so somebody that has a beef about meditating on these gospels has a severe problem. Somebody who has a beef accepting spiritual teaching and guidance from a pope has a worse one.

:clapping:

 

[asd72]

In my Rosary Booklet it says the Pope selected the Luminous Mysteries so that the Rosary might become more fully a ’ compendium of the Gospel’, by including the mysteries of Christ’s public ministry between his Baptism and his Passion.

 

[Marie5890]

there is no justification, none, for declaring something wrong with the suggestion made by a pope that Catholics meditate on these events in the life of Christ through the rosary. Nothing was mandated, there is no force of law, there is no sin in either praying or not praying the rosary, so somebody that has a beef about meditating on these gospels has a severe problem. Somebody who has a beef accepting spiritual teaching and guidance from a pope has a worse one.

Amen.
The meditating on the Luminous Mysteries has born much fruit in my life.

 

[Crumpy]

I had already developed an enormous interest in the Baptism of the Lord in the Jordan, and I was edified that this was the first of the Luminous Decades of the Rosary.

I am glad that the baptism was also a first-class feast, transferred to a Sunday, for general consideration.

the common explanation people will give of Baptism is that it is a washing or a cleansing. I believe it has spiritual significance (at many levels, of course) but particularly in that it is a re-creation of the flood of Noah’s time, when God’s condemnation came down into the world.

that’s why baptism by immersion makes to much symbolic sense, because it reminds us of that condemnation on us because of sins. And, it is said that in Baptism we join ourselves to Jesus death, and that we are putting to death “our old self.”

So, when Jesus was baptized (“it must be so”) it was to take on himself that condemnation for the sins of the world.

And, there’s so much more. Abraham said that “God will provide the lamb.” and Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise for a sacrificial victim.

the luminous mysteries are those in which Jesus was revealed (I think) and the baptism is such a major mystery (revelation of that mystery).

 

[PennyinCanada]

Baptism in the Jordan, the Transfiguration, and the Institution of the Eucharist.

I have prayed these as mysteries before JPII made them the Luminous Mysteries. Imagine my surprise!

The first 2 above are wonderful Eastern Rite feasts, the hymnology is beautiful in Vespers for them. With that experience, it is a delight to meditate on them. I have sat with my bible open and prayed one verse, one hail Mary, for the length of the Last Supper to Jesus’ death. To me, it puts more ‘meat’ on the ‘bones’ if you will. When I don’t do that for a shorter rosary, I have more images in my mind to meditate on.

Crumpy, the Baptism of Jesus has the mystery of the Trinity revealed for the first time to the world! There is so much richness in that mystery! Love it.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The beginning three Hail Mary’s relate to the 63 Hail Mary Rosary of the years our Lady lived on earth (this chaplet of 63 Hail Mary’s is used by the Carmelites, I believe, and by others). In the Dominican rosary, it was a salutation to the Mary in her relation to the three Divine Persons of the Trinity: (“What honour to that Woman should be done, who had God for Father, Spouse and Son?”).

Some of the Luminous Mysteries have been part of the Eastern Orthodox Marian psalter for years. It was a Maltese Blessed, Fr. Preca, who first established the Luminous Mysteries and Bl John Paul II simply adopted them.

It was well known that Blessed Pope John Paul II was very devoted to the Rosary and said more than 15 decades daily. St Louis de Montfort as well encouraged people to say more decades of the Rosary daily and recommended the six or seven decade chaplet in honour of the years our Lady lived on earth, following the 15 decade rosary.

The Rosary Confraternities of medieval times and later recommended all manner of rosaries e.g. 12 decades for the 12 Apostles, 7 decades for the 7 Blood-sheddings of our Lord, five decades for His five Wounds, 14 decades for the Stations of the Cross, one decade for each of the 15 prayers of St Brigitte and so on.

If limiting oneself to 15 decades a day and using only the mysteries of the Dominican Rosary was somehow a hard and fast “ancient tradition” - someone should have told medieval and recusant Catholics about it!

Alex

 

[Carolus_Martell]

As a daily rosary person I say the LM’s because the Pope has asked me to. However I would have to agree on the comments that the LM’s kind of take away the rhythm the other 3 had with one another.

A big plus for me is like forever I’ve been a big fan of the wedding feast of Cana…

…cause there’s a lot going on there that doesn’t get it full measure of appreciation and discussion imo. So I’m very happy about that.

Also imo the Transfiguration, an incredible event to be sure, is not really relative to our lives, so that doesn’t fit in. Jesus did that to give courage to St Peter knowing his spirit would fail shortly at the crucifixion.

Finally the JM’s are my favorite too so whenever the opportunity presents itself I always med on the J’M’s…figuring there’s also the BVM’s fav one’s too. I mostly 99.9% pray the Rosary because of the BVM.

 

[Will_S]

As a daily rosary person I say the LM’s because the Pope has asked me to. However I would have to agree on the comments that the LM’s kind of take away the rhythm the other 3 had with one another.

Except that what you have said is completely false. The Pope did not “ask you” or ask anyone else to pray the luminous mysteries. He threw them out there as an option.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

As a daily rosary person I say the LM’s because the Pope has asked me to. However I would have to agree on the comments that the LM’s kind of take away the rhythm the other 3 had with one another.

A big plus for me is like forever I’ve been a big fan of the wedding feast of Cana…

…cause there’s a lot going on there that doesn’t get it full measure of appreciation and discussion imo. So I’m very happy about that.

Also imo the Transfiguration, an incredible event to be sure, is not really relative to our lives, so that doesn’t fit in. Jesus did that to give courage to St Peter knowing his spirit would fail shortly at the crucifixion.

Finally the JM’s are my favorite too so whenever the opportunity presents itself I always med on the J’M’s…figuring there’s also the BVM’s fav one’s too. I mostly 99.9% pray the Rosary because of the BVM.

If that is so then why is the Transfiguration a Holy Day?

 

[Carolus_Martell]

Will S **Except that what you have said is completely false. The Pope did not “ask you” or ask anyone else to pray the luminous mysteries. He threw them out there as an option. **

OK then.

ByzCath **If that is so then why is the Transfiguration a Holy Day? **



Hey I’m not belittling the LM’s I just riffing on the OP’s intent.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Will S **Except that what you have said is completely false. The Pope did not “ask you” or ask anyone else to pray the luminous mysteries. He threw them out there as an option. **

OK then.

ByzCath **If that is so then why is the Transfiguration a Holy Day? **



Hey I’m not belittling the LM’s I just riffing on the OP’s intent.

I am just disagreeing with you as to the Transfiguration being only for Peter. It was covered in the Gospel and Peter was not there alone at it.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I am just disagreeing with you as to the Transfiguration being only for Peter. It was covered in the Gospel and Peter was not there alone at it.

Good point. It’s kind of like saying “The miracle at the wedding of Cana doesn’t mean anything for me, it was just for the married couple.”

And actually, there’s a lot of significance in the Transfiguration, especially if you look at the Old Testament symbolism in the passage.

But either way, I’m not sure what the point of arguing about this topic is. No one has to pray the Luminous Mysteries. No one has to pray the rosary, any more than one has to wear a Brown Scapular. I don’t wear a Brown Scapular. (Sorry ByzCath.) But I’m not going to tell someone else to stop wearing it, just as long as no one tells me I have to wear it.

 

[JReducation]

That as well as the fact that there are other prayers in the Rosary, what do they correspond to?

As I stated in my earlier post, I have heard that the Rosary was used as a replacement for the LoTH but that is “what I heard” I have yet to run into anything documenting this.

The Rule of St Albert (the rule for us Carmelites) has the Our Father being said by those who do not know how to pray the canonical hours. A different number for each of the hours, 25 for Compline (except for Sundays and Solemnites when it is 50), 7 for Lauds and the other hours except for Vespers which is 15.

I believe the 150 argument is a creation to match the Psalms and it is only reached when one ignores the 3 Hail Marys that you pray before you start the mysteries.

Brother,

You are right. The Rosary was not created as a substitute for the LOTH. The Office of the Paters was created by St. Benedict for the oblates. Oblates were men who could not read. This custom was picked up by the three Latin Law Givers: Augustine, Francis and Albert.

The proof is that the LOTH did not consist of 150 Psalms chanted in one week cycle. That was the Benedictine Diurnal, which is the most popular form of the LOTH. St. Francis combined two of the hours, rewrote the Divine Office so that it did not include all 150 Psalms and still does not do so, in the Franciscan tradition.

I believe there is a tendency to blend myth and fact. This is happening with the Rosary. The Rosary, as we know it is one of many versions. It’s often referred to as the Dominican Rosary, which has nothing to do with St. Dominic. However, it was the Dominican friars who made it popular, as a result, a legend arose that Our Lady had given the rosary to Dominic. The Dominican Friars deny this legend.

At the same time that the Dominicans were teaching their version of the Rosary, the Franciscans taught their own. The Franciscan Rosary, known as the Franciscan Crown, consists of seven decades. Again, another legend that says that Our Lady appeared to a friar who had been told not to place a daily crown on a statue outside of the friary. The legend says that she told him to give her a crown and instructed him to pray this seven-decade rosary. We know the year when it begins, but we can’t prove that the miracle ever happened, because we have no name for the friar.

The Redemptorists have their own version of the Rosary, which I won’t try to explain, because I’m unfamiliar with its history. There is a congregation of women religious known as the Servants of the Pierced Hearts, who have their own version of the rosary with 20 decades.

As we can see, there is no hard and fast rule for the rosary. It seems that what all these versions have in common is the recitation of the Aves. We have to be careful not to confuse Tradition and popular custom. The Dominican Rosary with its 15 decades is a popular custom, not Tradition. If you visit religious orders, you’ll find that the old religious orders do not pray the rosary. They came into existence before the rosary. The rosary came in as younger men and women entered and brought the custom from home.

For example, Franciscans, Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, Carthusians, Trinitarians, Servites, Augustinians and Carmelites do not have a tradition of praying the rosary as a fraternity. These great families had their own Marian devotions long before the Rosary became popular. The common recitation of the Rosary is an extraordinary devotion, not part of the daily horarium. Some houses have opted to include it in their horarium. That is up to the local chapter. The General Chapters have never imposed this. I’m not even sure if the Dominicans have common recitation of the Rosary.

If we look at these details, we can extrapolate that this is a popular devotion, is not a part of Tradition. This does not take away from the power and merits of the Rosary. It simply says that it’s OK for the pope to add something to the Rosary. What he cannot do is deny the mysteries of the Rosary. Those ARE part of Divine Revelation.

There is a very good Franciscan site that has the story of the Dominican and Seraphic rosaries.

shrinesf.org/rosary.htm

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I think the argument concerning the parallel with the Psalms is only really valid if you’re praying the whole thing at once (ie all 150 Aves).

On the other hand, the weekly has an extra 50 anyway (there’s two complete Psalters and one extra 50 each week) so I don’t think it messes with the Psalm in that case.

From my understanding of the history of the Rosary, Our Lady didn’t give it as is. Praying 150 Aves on beads predated St. Dominic by centuries. What she did was encourage Dominic to spread the devotion of praying the Angelic Psalter to combat heresy and gave promises regarding it. St. Louis de Montfort says she said the following in Secret of the Rosary:

“I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach my Psalter.”

So I think the Psalter aspect is very important. However, the specific mysteries varied even among Dominicans for centuries after the death of St. Dominic.

Excellent points!

The Christian East has always prayed 150 Hail Mary’s based on a revelation to a monk in the Thebaid in the 8th century, but praying Our Father’s and Hail Mary’s in place of the Psalms by monastics and laity who could not read (and their name must have been “legion” in those days) was an ancient practice, especially in the East.

St Seraphim of Sarov promoted an ancient version of this and told his followers to say 150 Our Father’s and 150 Hail Mary’s for all their relatives and friends, living and dead, and then to ask for a particular favour (but one that one absolutely needed) - and it will be granted.

To this day in Russia at the monastery of Diveyevo, nuns walk the perimeter of the monastery along a special ditch with a walkway, saying the 150 Hail Mary’s, singing them together as they walk on feastdays. They believe the Most Holy Virgin Mary herself walks around the monastery once a day . . .

The mysteries of the Orthodox “Marian rosary” called “the rule of prayer of the Mother of God” are:

1. the Birth of the Mother of God
2. The Entrance into the Temple of the Mother of God
3. the Annunciation
4. the Visitation and Magnificat
5. the Nativity of OLGS Jesus Christ in Bethlehem
6. The Meeting with Simeon in the Temple
7. the Flight into Egypt
8. the Finding of Jesus in the Temple
9. the Wedding at Cana in Galilee
10. Our Lady beneath the Cross on Calvary
11. the Resurrection and the appearance of our Lord first to His Mother
12. the Ascension into heaven with our Lady raising her hands upward in prayer for us to her ascending Son
13. Pentecost and the Mother of God as the Spirit-filled Mother of the Church
14. the Dormition and Assumption into heave of the Mother of God
15. Her Coronation by the Most Holy Trinity as Queen of heaven and earth

These are the mysteries of the Orthodox rosary which are also listed in the 2003 edition of the “Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy” published by the Moscow Patriarchate. They are also written up in the book: “Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint” (chapter six).

Alex

 

[JReducation]

Excellent points!

The Christian East has always prayed 150 Hail Mary’s based on a revelation to a monk in the Thebaid in the 8th century, but praying Our Father’s and Hail Mary’s in place of the Psalms by monastics and laity who could not read (and their name must have been “legion” in those days) was an ancient practice, especially in the East.

St Seraphim of Sarov promoted an ancient version of this and told his followers to say 150 Our Father’s and 150 Hail Mary’s for all their relatives and friends, living and dead, and then to ask for a particular favour (but one that one absolutely needed) - and it will be granted.

To this day in Russia at the monastery of Diveyevo, nuns walk the perimeter of the monastery along a special ditch with a walkway, saying the 150 Hail Mary’s, singing them together as they walk on feastdays. They believe the Most Holy Virgin Mary herself walks around the monastery once a day . . .

The mysteries of the Orthodox “Marian rosary” called “the rule of prayer of the Mother of God” are:

1. the Birth of the Mother of God
2. The Entrance into the Temple of the Mother of God
3. the Annunciation
4. the Visitation and Magnificat
5. the Nativity of OLGS Jesus Christ in Bethlehem
6. The Meeting with Simeon in the Temple
7. the Flight into Egypt
8. the Finding of Jesus in the Temple
9. the Wedding at Cana in Galilee
10. Our Lady beneath the Cross on Calvary
11. the Resurrection and the appearance of our Lord first to His Mother
12. the Ascension into heaven with our Lady raising her hands upward in prayer for us to her ascending Son
13. Pentecost and the Mother of God as the Spirit-filled Mother of the Church
14. the Dormition and Assumption into heave of the Mother of God
15. Her Coronation by the Most Holy Trinity as Queen of heaven and earth

These are the mysteries of the Orthodox rosary which are also listed in the 2003 edition of the “Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy” published by the Moscow Patriarchate. They are also written up in the book: “Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint” (chapter six).

Alex

Thanks for sharing that. I did not know them. They’re quite beautiful. It’s striking that they’re very Marian, whereas the mysteries in the Latin rosaries are very Christological. The East has always had a much deeper Marian mysticism than the Latin Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ETEXAS]

The Luminous are my fave! LO. Since…there is no “Law” on the use of Days I as a JP2 fan in an Honor , used the Luminous Everyday for the Month to Beatification… it was an AMAZING spiritual exercise! I Agree with the current suggestions! But is is an amazing experience if one takes in a year…and even for a week …does a single Set of mysteries that week…when you finish and go back to the suggested pattern…they are…deeper…you have breathed each more deeply!

 

[CatholicFireman]

Kind of neat how I found this thread on the feast of The Transfiguration.