Lust and attraction and adultry

[atheistgirl]

I have a question about the words that Jesus said when He said if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultry with her. Now, I understand that adultry is a big sin in religion, but equally, in the secular world, it’s pretty bad for the health of the relationship, kids, and so on … so it has big consequences regardless if youre religious or not. So my issue is not with the physical ACT of adultry.

It’s more trying to understand how you CANT look at someone with lust, when you first meet, and are interested in that person. My husband is an awesome guy, a great father, a wonderful provider, a generous kind and loving husband, a considerate son, and a great lover, and he’s also my best friend… but, truth be out, I never knew any of that when I first set eyes on him - I just lusted after him

So how does that work? According to the Bible, Ive already committed adultry with him, before I even said hi to him

But without that lust, that curiosity, that interest to find out more, I would never have known any of the above … I certainly couldnt tell just by looking at him … I could only tell what the physical reaction was

And boy am I glad for it. But it leaves me wondering how do you reconcile that with the Bible.

Sarah x

 

[Bookcat]

Lust does not mean per se sexual attraction.

The fact that you were attracted to him…that you were interested in him…that you found him attractive…does not mean you looked lustfully at him.

Looking at someone lustful for example looking and consenting to lustful thoughts, or looking at someone and seeking to be aroused etc…etc…etc…

Catechism:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The answer must be found in some of that sophisticated theology I hear about.
Sure you and your husband don’t eat baby sandwiches for lunch? I hear you evil athiests do that.

 

[atheistgirl]

Lust does not mean per se sexual attraction.

Thanks Bookcat. It may not just mean sexual attraction, but surely in partner material, you’re lookiing for exactly that - sexual attraction And doesnt this manifest itself in lustful/dreamy thoughts?

…does not mean you looked lustfully at him.

I actually did. I dont think I could have made my intentions any more clear if I’d hung a sign around my neck screaming take me to your cave you beast

Looking at someone lustful for example looking and consenting to lustful thoughts, or looking at someone and seeking to be aroused etc…etc…etc…

Catechism:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

That’s a good quote. And looking at it carefuly, is the… ‘’ unitive purposes’’ a get out clause to take account of human sexuality in singles. What I mean is, I didnt actually CHOSE to have a reaction to this man … it just happened. Like I said, we’ve been happily married ever since so there was no one nighters involved, but the piece I was reading just got me thinking, that’s all.

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

Sure you and your husband don’t eat baby sandwiches for lunch? I hear you evil athiests do that.

Gosh no … they give you chronic indigestion

We just rape pillage and plunder and have no morals what so ever

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I have a question about the words that Jesus said when He said if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultry with her. Now, I understand that adultry is a big sin in religion, but equally, in the secular world, it’s pretty bad for the health of the relationship, kids, and so on … so it has big consequences regardless if youre religious or not. So my issue is not with the physical ACT of adultry.

It’s more trying to understand how you CANT look at someone with lust, when you first meet, and are interested in that person. My husband is an awesome guy, a great father, a wonderful provider, a generous kind and loving husband, a considerate son, and a great lover, and he’s also my best friend… but, truth be out, I never knew any of that when I first set eyes on him - I just lusted after him

So how does that work? According to the Bible, Ive already committed adultry with him, before I even said hi to him

But without that lust, that curiosity, that interest to find out more, I would never have known any of the above … I certainly couldnt tell just by looking at him … I could only tell what the physical reaction was

And boy am I glad for it. But it leaves me wondering how do you reconcile that with the Bible.

Sarah x

Well, for a guy’s perspective a thought that could be equivalent to the Bible is “I so wanna tap that”. I don’t know what a girl’s equivalent would be.

Lust: The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

When you say you lusted after him, what exactly do you mean? Were you mentally undressing him? Did you think of how awesome it would be to get him into your boudoir? Did you mentally screw him? Merely think “Damn is he good looking” isn’t necessarily lust.

As for falling in love with someone without lusting, it’s definitely possible. Perhaps you didn’t know he was your match at first sight, instead you got to know him and his personality kind of grew on you, he was a nice person, fun to hang out with. Even when his jokes weren’t funny you still couldn’t help but laugh. Perhaps he sometimes did silly stuff, stupid stuff even and you couldn’t help, but find it so adorable.

Rereading what I just wrote that I’m totally lovestruck, Madly, Truly, Deeply in love, but I do not want to screw him (although he is cute)

 

[Bookcat]

Lust – consenting to lustful thoughts/imaginings…seeking to arouse oneself…wanting to jump in bed (not just some uninvited unconsented to thought) etc

Sexual attraction–wow he is a nice guy …real cute …wow he is really my type …he is very attractive…nice face…etc

(I am not a girl …so I can not say speak girl )

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Why would an atheist be concerned? I certainly wasn’t concerned about lust when I was an atheist. I was busy not believing in anything religious or religously grounded and giving myself permission to do anything I wanted to do that wouldn’t get me thrown in jail. What would an atheists’ motivation be to quit lusting? Certainly not because the Bible I didn’t believe in forbade lust!

 

[Hokomai]

Why would an atheist be concerned? I certainly wasn’t concerned about lust when I was an atheist. I was busy not believing in anything religious or religiously grounded and giving myself permission to do anything I wanted to do that wouldn’t get me thrown in jail. What would an atheists’ motivation be to quit lusting? Certainly not because the Bible I didn’t believe in forbade lust!

I think many unbelievers like me are interested in religious thought about a whole range of issues, and sometimes religious thinking gives us guidance we accept because it makes sense in the real world. For example, I was influenced by religious thought think more highly of families (although I define them more widely than Catholics). And I think the Catholic view of people’s right to their good reputation and to protection from detraction and calumny is exactly right, and I try to practice it. I don’t agree with the Catholic view of sexuality, but I react like man Catholics when my friends leave their partners for someone younger. Of course I feel the same way about my gay friends, which Catholics wouldn’t, but let’s not get complicated. Non-believers (this one anyway) don’t think all religious thought is a waste of time. On the issue of sexual attraction, which I dimly remember from my youth I once heard a priest draw a distinction between seeing an attractive person and thinking objectively “I would enjoy sex with that person” and thinking “given the opportunity I really would have sex with that person (outside marriage”. The first he thought was natural and moral and the second he thought was sinful. I know a Catholic layman who on seeing a beautiful woman walk past will always murmur: “Ah - the wonders of God’s creation”.

 

[FNDRB58]

One commits the sin of lust when one consents to a lustful thought. That means that if and when a lustful thought enters your mind, you do not entertain it, by thought nor deed. We all have lustful thoughts that pop into our minds, some more than others. These are not sinful in and of themselves. We must ensure however that we quickly recognize the thought and turn our thoughts away from it. Though lustful thoughts enter into my mind constantly, I have learned to turn away from it upon recognition. After some time I have found that I can look at the beauty of the opposite gender without “going there”, but I do still have to be careful and not admire too long.

In fact, a priest told me during confession that we are not culpable of sin if a lustful thought enters our mind as long as we turn away from it. If we do then that is a holy thing and we have defeated the devil from his temptation.

We are not to lust even over our spouses; that is, viewing our spouses as objects. Certainly, you can look at your spouse with intense sexual desire that does not amount to lust…why? Because you truly love him. You are not treating him like an object therefore you are not lusting after him.

Also, remember, if you did not know you sinned then you are not culpable, but that does not mean that you can continue to lust. Now that you are informed on the matter, it is incumbant upon you to come to the conclusion that your Lord and Savior wants you to obey his teachings

We can certainly say that lust is involved in prostitution, pornography, rape, degradation of women (and men for that matter) as children of God, not to mention children. Even if one is not religious, surely one can understand that nothing good comes from lusting. It is an evil action by its (religious) definition.

 

[atheistgirl]

Why would an atheist be concerned?

Not concerned. Just interested in the perspective.

I certainly wasn’t concerned about lust when I was an atheist. I was busy not believing in anything religious or religously grounded and giving myself permission to do anything I wanted to do that wouldn’t get me thrown in jail.

I guess it just goes to show all atheists are individuals, and individuals are different. Neither I nor my husband got busy doing everything we wanted except for that that would have us in jail. In fact we’ve never lived out life like that. If he was that kind of person, I’d never have married him We both have pretty high moral standards as it happens

What would an atheists’ motivation be to quit lusting?

I lust after my husband every day I hope I never stop. And I hope he never stops lusting after me

Thanks to those who answered.

I think Im a little clearer now from a biblical perspective.

Sarah x

 

[davidv]

Not concerned. Just interested in the perspective.

I guess it just goes to show all atheists are individuals, and individuals are different. Neither I nor my husband got busy doing everything we wanted except for that that would have us in jail. In fact we’ve never lived out life like that. If he was that kind of person, I’d never have married him We both have pretty high moral standards as it happens

I lust after my husband every day I hope I never stop. And I hope he never stops lusting after me

Thanks to those who answered.

I think Im a little clearer now from a biblical perspective.

Sarah x

Based on this post, I think you are using a different definition of lust than does the Church. The Church’s definition was quoted in one of the posts above. Here is the link to this definition in the Catechism.
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2351.htm

 

[manualman]

I lust after my husband every day I hope I never stop. And I hope he never stops lusting after me

Thanks to those who answered.

I think Im a little clearer now from a biblical perspective.
…

Actually you might not be. You still sound like you think lust is the same as passion. It’s not. Lust is entirely self centered. The object of the lust is not seen as a human being made in the image and likeness of God, but instead much like a hungry man views a steak: a means to quench an appetite.

Passion involves the person. I sincerely hope you aren’t lusting for your husband every day. Passion is so much more. Do that instead.

 

[Matt_Tiza]

As mentioned lust is purely self-serving. If you truly love someone, you cannot lust after him/her because you are concerned with his/her well-being. You share pleasure during relations and not just to satisfy yourself. This is conjugal love and not lust. The joy of bearing children in a committed marriage is beyond comparison. Understand this and you will understand how important loving relations are in marriage and how the 6th commandment protects that.

Please remember that Catholicism is the ultimate expression of God’s logic and reason.

We don’t think and do things simply because somebody said so even though we do have faith regarding issues that we do not yet understand.

If you consider sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancy, children struggling without one or both parents, and the instability that arises when families break up, then you will understand the logic and reason of the 6th commandment (thou shall not commit adultery).

God loves us so much and knows what is truly best for us. That’s why He ordered the universe as it is. We have to trust Him that even though we are not mature enough to understand His Will completely that it is truly what is best and logical for us.

You really can view all of these Catholic precepts from an atheist perspective as simply acts of logic. Seeking pleasure is not all-fulfilling. Selfishness actually hurts one more than generosity benefits one. The teachings of the Catholic Church simply align us with the universe as it is. God made the universe, and He knows how it works much better than we do. Denying the logic and reason behind this is like denying gravity or any other physical law. When we resist God, we resist His very creation, and that is ultimately defeating. As an atheist, just think of it as accepting reality for what it really is. Catholics call that ultimate reality, God.

 

[gt8952b]

Maybe this doesn’t answer your question, but from my perspective, God can bring about good from evil. I personally believe that your marriage is the result of a loving God providing for you, even if one of the inspirations for your comming together was lust. Does the good marriage mean that the lust was good? No, just like dropping a bomb on soldiers and civilians might end a war, it doesn’t make the killing of civilians good. Was the crowd of Jews yelling “Crucify Him!” at Christ good? No, but the death and resurection sure were!

I hope this helps.

 

[vera_dicere]

I think the best way to describe what Lust is is to describe what love is [in a Christian context of course].

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Love is patient, is kind. Love does not evny, does not act wrongly, is not inflated. Love is not ambitious, does not seek for itself, is not provoked to anger, devises no evil. Love does not rejoice over iniquity, but rejoices in truth. Love suffers all, beleives all, hopes all, endures all. Love is never torn away, even if prophecies pass away or langauges cease or knowledge destoryed.

So flick it around, is lust patient? No, lust wants RIGHT NOW. Is lust kind? No, taking somethign from someone, ie. sexual gratification is not kind, and certainly not a lot of behaviour after - one night stands where one of teh partners takes off, not even giving their name, that’s not kind. Does lust act rightly? No, it acts wrongly in that it can pollute true sexuality, ie. one man one woman in marriage - but even in marriage it can act wrongly - contraception, adultery et al. Is Lust inflated? Yes, the individual lusting often inflates themself, and how great they are, and how great the one they want is - “I’d like to tap that a…”. Lust is certainly ambitious, how many girls and guys are out on the town to get laid. Lust seeks for itself, for its own end, “sexual release”. Lust can be angry if the individual lusting is not successful, it devises evil - ie. fornication, contraception, perhaps abortion.

Atheistgirl, I think you did not lust after your husband the first time you met him, you may have had strong sexual desire for him, but from what you posted you do not express a complete selfish pursuit of him.

 

[Matt_Tiza]

Lust is like the guy who just wants relations regardless of which girl he finds himself with. He’ll tell her anything, that she’s pretty, etc. just to get her to go with him. She’s probably not the most attractive person to him, but he doesn’t even care as his lust is just an appetite to be filled. She could be anybody within her gender. She is no longer a person to him, but a glorified hole in the wall.

Love is like the guy who sacrifices for his family and for his kids regardless of whether or not he receives any favors or gratitude from his wife. His joy is in making others happy and doing the right things. Personal happiness can happen during relations too, but it is not the end goal in itself.

If you’re more like the first guy, then it’s lust. If you’re more like the second, then it’s love.

Some people say that love is different for everybody or that you can’t define love, but that’s not true at all. Love is about giving to others regardless of what you receive. Christ’s love for us is the perfect example of giving everything for those whom you love.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I have a question about the words that Jesus said when He said if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultry with her. Now, I understand that adultry is a big sin in religion, but equally, in the secular world, it’s pretty bad for the health of the relationship, kids, and so on … so it has big consequences regardless if youre religious or not. So my issue is not with the physical ACT of adultry.

It’s more trying to understand how you CANT look at someone with lust, when you first meet, and are interested in that person. My husband is an awesome guy, a great father, a wonderful provider, a generous kind and loving husband, a considerate son, and a great lover, and he’s also my best friend… but, truth be out, I never knew any of that when I first set eyes on him - I just lusted after him

So how does that work? According to the Bible, Ive already committed adultry with him, before I even said hi to him

But without that lust, that curiosity, that interest to find out more, I would never have known any of the above … I certainly couldnt tell just by looking at him … I could only tell what the physical reaction was

And boy am I glad for it. But it leaves me wondering how do you reconcile that with the Bible.

Sarah x

The truth is that sexual attraction without Lust (as it has been traditionally defined and is still usually defined) is impossible.

When the Catholic Church says that it is pro-sexuality (and even pro-sex) it is referring to its idealized form of sexual attraction that does not (and perhaps cannot) exist in the real world.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Lust does not mean per se sexual attraction.

The fact that you were attracted to him…that you were interested in him…that you found him attractive…does not mean you looked lustfully at him.

Looking at someone lustful for example looking and consenting to lustful thoughts, or looking at someone and seeking to be aroused etc…etc…etc…

Catechism:

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or** inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure**. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

I think it says a lot that according to the Catholic definition of Lust, simply enjoying sex *too much *is a sin, regardless of whose involved.

Does God expect people to do penance for every orgasm?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

The answer must be found in some of that sophisticated theology I hear about.
Sure you and your husband don’t eat baby sandwiches for lunch? I hear you evil athiests do that.

I KNEW I forgot to do something today