Lust and Mortal Sin

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At school, I tend to look at girls in my class lustfully sometimes. This used to happen a lot, but then I found out that impure thoughts are mortal sins, if entertained. Since going to confession, I have looked at some girls in my class lustfully out of habit, and at the time, it seems extremely hard to stop. I might look a couple times, but I try to stop after a minute. I had lingering suspicions that it could be getting close to a mortal sin, so I try harder to stop. I just now learned for a fact that it is a mortal sin. Are all the times I did this before counted as mortal sins?
 
My understanding is if you do not realize it’s a sin, then you are not held accountable for your actions. How were you to know if you’re weren’t educated on that. Either way, once you found out it was, you went to confession so you should be fine now. However, what happens after that, you are responsible for now that you know that you should not. You will have to confess this.

A question though, are you single?

If so, CAF users, is there a difference between admiring someone when you’re single? Is that necessarily bad? When does it become an issue? When you’re in a relationship or married? Or is it the type of thoughts you’re having? Or is lust a whole seperate thing from admiration, single or not?
 
green423 said:
My understanding is if you do not realize it’s a sin, then you are not held accountable for your actions. How were you to know if you’re weren’t educated on that. Either way, once you found out it was, you went to confession so you should be fine now. However, what happens after that, you are responsible for now that you know that you should not. You will have to confess this.

A question though, are you single?

If so, CAF users, is there a difference between admiring someone when you’re single? Is that necessarily bad? When does it become an issue? When you’re in a relationship or married? Or is it the type of thoughts you’re having? Or is lust a whole seperate thing from admiration, single or not?
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I guess one of the problems that comes from my scrupulosity is that I’ll think if there was any chance that it might’ve been a mortal sin, then I’m held accountable.
 
Tennis42 said:
I guess one of the problems that comes from my scrupulosity is that I’ll think if there was any chance that it might’ve been a mortal sin, then I’m held accountable.
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You can address these things in confession.

A regular confessor than is important for your scrupulosity.

He can help you distinguish between simply attraction or other things…

and looking lustfully.

It is important for you to follow his guidance and work on resisting any scruples…

they are to be treated like a barking dog or a hissing goose…one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose…one keeps walking…

I will post some things regarding thoughts and also temptation that I posted in the past.
 
(from previous posts of mine…)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)
Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business
 
The following would apply to various things…thoughts…looking…etc
The classic stages of temptation when we are tempted are:
  1. Suggestion (the evil is proposed to us in some way) this can be quite attractive …can be thoughts that happen, ideas etc.
  2. Pleasure (a kind of automatic pleasure can happen from the suggestion) …yet no consent etc
3…then one either consents or does not consent.

(one can either consent fully and thus engage in things willingly …or not consent and perhaps thus grow in virtue…following Christ!)

Now it can often happen that one begins to “partially consent” but then rejects it and thus does not give full consent.

When one is tempted…

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent”:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent…then such can be mortal…remember…partial consent or half consent is not full consent…and thus not mortal.

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)
 
It is important to have a “reasonable” (non-scrupulous) custody of they eyes…

Knowing when to look away etc…(but without scruple or undue stress…)
 
Tennis42 said:
At school, I tend to look at girls in my class lustfully sometimes. This used to happen a lot, but then I found out that impure thoughts are mortal sins, if entertained. Since going to confession, I have looked at some girls in my class lustfully out of habit, and at the time, it seems extremely hard to stop. I might look a couple times, but I try to stop after a minute. I had lingering suspicions that it could be getting close to a mortal sin, so I try harder to stop. I just now learned for a fact that it is a mortal sin. Are all the times I did this before counted as mortal sins?
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It is not the time that determines whether there was a mortal sin. It is the kind of your soul’s assent to it.

There are three stages: the first is the appearance of the thought and its arousal of your desire and pleasure, which is no sin or at most venial. Then there comes the taking pleasure on it, but still in a way in which you are not currently remembering that it is a sin, and this is venial sin. And finally there is the full consent, when in clear view of its sinfulness you decide to enjoy it anyway.

Perhaps what you were doing were venial sins all along. Always good to bring them to your confessor, but don’t feel depressed every time you linger a little bit on an impure thought; that you were fighting against it, occasionally bringing it back but also trying to push it away, shows that your consent was not full. The human mind is not a binary computer, it is hard to ascertain what kind of consent was given, but a good rule is: if you are in doubt, it was not a mortal sin.
 
Tennis42 said:
I guess one of the problems that comes from my scrupulosity is that I’ll think if there was any chance that it might’ve been a mortal sin, then I’m held accountable.
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This might have worse consequences for your soul than the impure looks you mention. Focus your attention and your spiritual work (prayer, meditations) on this scrupulosity. The mere fact that you cease to stress over the impure look issue will probably make it better on its own.

And when you go to Mass, and you are wondering whether or not you are in mortal sin, and so whether you should take Communion or not, take it.
 
Joel_PF said:
And when you go to Mass, and you are wondering whether or not you are in mortal sin, and so whether you should take Communion or not, take it.
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Thank you for this. I go to a Catholic school, and we go to Mass every week, so it’s hard to avoid receiving Eucharist during the week.
 
Tennis42 said:
At school, I tend to look at girls in my class lustfully sometimes. This used to happen a lot, but then I found out that impure thoughts are mortal sins, if entertained. Since going to confession, I have looked at some girls in my class lustfully out of habit, and at the time, it seems extremely hard to stop. I might look a couple times, but I try to stop after a minute. I had lingering suspicions that it could be getting close to a mortal sin, so I try harder to stop. I just now learned for a fact that it is a mortal sin. Are all the times I did this before counted as mortal sins?
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This is sad. The Good Lord made Women beautiful. And you punish yourself for being a single straight male and admiring them? You my friend are not alone. It seems that many Catholic Men here, have a abnormal fear of the opposite sex and their penis. This is unhealthy. Did it ever occur to you that maybe God made women attractive so you would be…Well attracted to them? Are you dating yet? If your old enough to, then start. Maybe you will find they dont bite. It is natural to be attracted to the opposite sex. Its how we are made. Sorry, welcome to the human race my friend. 😉
 
Tennis42 said:
Thank you for this. I go to a Catholic school, and we go to Mass every week, so it’s hard to avoid receiving Eucharist during the week.
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Talk with your confessor about this…he can direct you…

of course your conscious of mortal sin of course do not receive until you go to confession
 
Heres pretty much how it went -

I thought it was a venial sin, but I had some doubts ( Because of my scrupulosity)
I found out it was a mortal sin.

Because of my doubts, was it a mortal sin?
 
Tennis42 said:
At school, I tend to look at girls in my class lustfully sometimes. This used to happen a lot, but then I found out that impure thoughts are mortal sins, if entertained. Since going to confession, I have looked at some girls in my class lustfully out of habit, and at the time, it seems extremely hard to stop. I might look a couple times, but I try to stop after a minute. I had lingering suspicions that it could be getting close to a mortal sin, so I try harder to stop. I just now learned for a fact that it is a mortal sin. Are all the times I did this before counted as mortal sins?
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I’m no expert on Catholic theology, but common sense seems to point to not worrying about it, unless you are going off on flights of fantasy about specific sexual acts with someone. It is completely normal for a young guy to appreciate the charms of a female, and also to react physiologically in their presence. For example, did you know that in studies where males are subjected to the scent of a female, then they are no longer able to differentiate between females who are attractive, and those who are unattractive. Basically, they all become attractive. The reason I mention this, is that my advice is to relax. Be aware of your own reactions, and let go of them. Enjoy being a guy, and give yourself a break. It is possible to detach from your thoughts. Just recognize them as a normal reaction to the stimulus around you, and then let go of them with a smile.
 
Tennis42 said:
Heres pretty much how it went -

I thought it was a venial sin, but I had some doubts ( Because of my scrupulosity)
I found out it was a mortal sin.

Because of my doubts, was it a mortal sin?
Click to expand...
Your confessor can guide you…or if you do not yet have one…get one…and in the meantime you can bring the matter to confession to a priest who is available.
 
Love is the free giving of one’s entire being to another, holding nothing back, sacrificing your entire self as a gift to another human being. Love flows from us, outward toward others. Christ is our perfect example when he gave himself entirely, holding nothing back, spripped naked, spit on and nailed to a cross out of obedience to the Father and his love for us.

Lust is the opposite of that. Lust pulls all things inward toward ourself. Lust selfishly takes and does not give. Lust appropriates another human being for personal pleasure. Lust is not a gift of one’s self to another, it is the taking of another for one’s self. Selfishness is a sin and that is why lust is a sin.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28)

Blessed John Paul II said that the opposite of love is use. To use another human being for personal pleasure is the opposite of love. To dinimish what lust does to your own soul by saying “It is natural” and “Welcome to the human race” is to ignore the sin of Adam and Eve, for they lived in a state of perfect self giving love unitl they sinnned. To diminish the effect lust has on your soul is to ignore the very mission Christ undertook when he became man to free us from that sin.

No one is saying that it is easy. But the devil uses society to try to tell us that it is natural and this is in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. Lust is counter to God’s design. We lust because we sin. We sin when we lust. And it takes heroic effort to overcome it. The saints threw themselves into frozen lakes and thorn bushes to overcome it. Catholics have forgotten that when one of us sins, it affects the whole body of Christ. We are all in this together.

And Catholics seem to have forgotten what the priest says at every Mass… “This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” He didn’t come to give us coping mechanisms or to help us keep it under control. He came to take away our sins. Gone. Period. Personally, I believe that becuase I have experienced it with regard to lust. When I hear people say, “Oh, don’t worry about it, it’s normal to lust” I wonder how many others really believe that.

-Tim-
 
May God richly bless those that have achieved perfection in this life! And may we rejoice that they are without sin!
1 JOHN 1:8:rolleyes:
 
benidict said:
May God richly bless those that have achieved perfection in this life! And may we rejoice that they are without sin!
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Below summarizes what has been said on this thread, not the hyperbole that is claimed above ^.
TimothyH said:
No one is saying that it is easy. But the devil uses society to try to tell us that it is natural and this is in direct opposition to the teaching of Christ. Lust is counter to God’s design. We lust because we sin. We sin when we lust. And it takes heroic effort to overcome it. The saints threw themselves into frozen lakes and thorn bushes to overcome it. Catholics have forgotten that when one of us sins, it affects the whole body of Christ. We are all in this together.
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Another question I had:
There was something inappropriate on tv, and I saw it and looked away. I turned away and tried not to think about it. I kept feeling the need the look back, though, and I did a few times. Was it a sin?
 
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