Lust: his fault or hers?

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ooh, sounds like a nice church, I wish my church did stuf like that. I see girls ocme in with tight jeans and spaghettis strap tank tops. :eek:
 
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paramedicgirl:
Tan Publishers has a great book out called “Dressing with Dignity” by Colleen Hammond. You could always buy 10 or 20 copies, and with your priest’s permission, leave them in the back of the church.
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Actually, the blurb brochure for “Dressing with Dignity” has an excellent summary along with the info on where to buy the book. Maybe readers of this thread could xerox the blurb and with permissions put the blurbs in the literature rack.
 
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retiredgrampa:
Apparently, I am much more fortunate than my friends here. I belong to a traditional Catholic Church, Latin and all. I have no worry about what women wear at Mass because outside of the church are two large signs near the entrances outlining what type of clothing may NOT be worn and what clothing is acceptable. To back it up, a lady monitors outside, and if a man or woman is inappropriately dressed, he/she is turned back, and there are ushers inside to inforce this. TOO STRICT? Our Priest constantly reinforces that our church is the House of God. Respect for His house is therefore mandatory. Pant suits for women and blue jeans for men are out. Even the small children are well dressed. BTW, head coverings for women and girls is still
“in” in my parish.
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Whats disrepectful about pantsuits? I wear them and to Mass…
Monitors (?) :eek:
YES too strict. Somehow…I don’t think Jesus would turn away someone in jeans or a lady in a pantsuit…are some casual dress inappropiate? yes…but if your clean , neat and covered properly then its okay
 
I would suggest to everyone the book “Dressing with Dignity” by Colleen something or other. It’s only about 103 pgs. and took me like twenty minutes to read. It really gives a perspective on how hard it is for men to gain faculty of their eyes when women dress in certain ways and how hard it is for a woman to be taken seriously when all she wants attention for is her body. How do you respect a thing? Anyhow, i have been trying to dress more modestly and while it is hard for men to tell women to cover it up without looking like pervs, i think it is more important to say something than to let them go on thinking that is acceptable or wanted by every man on the planet. Their name calling reaction is more out of defensiveness for being called on their own sinfulness than out of any real belief that you are a lecher. I pray for a more pure world. I will not be taking my son grocery shopping when he gets a couple years older because i don’t want him looking at the covers of the magazines by the checkout counters. My husband can’t go to wal mart without being bombarded by images of Jessica Simpson (with her squeaky clean image) wearing clothes a prostitute wouldn’t have worn 50 years ago. :mad:
 
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retiredgrampa:
Apparently, I am much more fortunate than my friends here. I belong to a traditional Catholic Church, Latin and all. I have no worry about what women wear at Mass because outside of the church are two large signs near the entrances outlining what type of clothing may NOT be worn and what clothing is acceptable. To back it up, a lady monitors outside, and if a man or woman is inappropriately dressed, he/she is turned back, and there are ushers inside to inforce this. TOO STRICT? Our Priest constantly reinforces that our church is the House of God. Respect for His house is therefore mandatory. Pant suits for women and blue jeans for men are out. Even the small children are well dressed. BTW, head coverings for women and girls is still
“in” in my parish.
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I feel much more modest in a pants suit than in a dress. Pants cover up my legs, and I am more comfortable, warmer in the winter, and no one can accuse me of being immodest.
 
A lot, not all, but a lot of pantsuits are not modest. THey may cover your legs, but they accentuate the “rear view” and also may not be high enough on the waist (those hip-hugger things, you know) I think they probably had their fair share of women coming in with those tight pant-suits that they just decided to get rid of them all together to save themselves the time it took to explain. It would be embarassing to have someone tell me my pants were too tight.
 
SoccerDad:

What’s your opinion about all of this now, one month after your original post?
 
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dafalax:
I would suggest to everyone the book “Dressing with Dignity” by Colleen something or other. It’s only about 103 pgs. and took me like twenty minutes to read. It really gives a perspective on how hard it is for men to gain faculty of their eyes when women dress in certain ways and how hard it is for a woman to be taken seriously when all she wants attention for is her body. How do you respect a thing? Anyhow, i have been trying to dress more modestly and while it is hard for men to tell women to cover it up without looking like pervs, i think it is more important to say something than to let them go on thinking that is acceptable or wanted by every man on the planet. Their name calling reaction is more out of defensiveness for being called on their own sinfulness than out of any real belief that you are a lecher. I pray for a more pure world. I will not be taking my son grocery shopping when he gets a couple years older because i don’t want him looking at the covers of the magazines by the checkout counters. My husband can’t go to wal mart without being bombarded by images of Jessica Simpson (with her squeaky clean image) wearing clothes a prostitute wouldn’t have worn 50 years ago. :mad:
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And I think you have a very good point. While there is no need to call women names and use vulgar language to make a point, women today need to take responsibility for how they wish to be treated. If you wish to be treated like a woman of dignity and grace, then dress and act like one. And if anyone would have ever told me that this particular ex-rock’n’roll wild child would be saying this kind of stuff 30 years ago I would have laughed out loud. But I grew up and I faced facts. The reality is, I have to take responsibility for my own actions, and while I expect men to take full responsibility for THEIR eyes, ears and minds I cannot ask to be treated like a lady if I dress like a dime store hooker.

OMIGAWD…I am an adult. Someone call my mother, she will be so pleased…:dancing:
 
Let’s face it, we are both responsible, there are some men that if a woman dressed in burlap up to her chin and down to the tip of her toes they would wonder or imagine what she looked like underneath, and there are women who dress that way on purpose either because they are into so called “fashions”, they are innocent or they are doing it on purpose, there are a variety of reasons. Each of us is responsible for ourself. The man to pray about his “near occasions of sin” and the woman to not try to tempt men.
I have a very hard time believing that every woman that dresses inmodestly has any ideas of sex on their mind though, some truly are innocent. Some of it also is a cultral thing.
Plus, in our Parish there are signs posted and people just ignore them anyway. I doubt they even read the signs or the bulletin.
 
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migurl:
A lot, not all, but a lot of pantsuits are not modest. THey may cover your legs, but they accentuate the “rear view” and also may not be high enough on the waist (those hip-hugger things, you know) I think they probably had their fair share of women coming in with those tight pant-suits that they just decided to get rid of them all together to save themselves the time it took to explain. It would be embarassing to have someone tell me my pants were too tight.
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Sorry, I disagree, my slacks are not immodest. Men can get away with wearing pants, so should women be able to be warm, comfortable, and not worried about someone looking up their skirt. No one accuses a man of accentuating their “rear view”,even when their pants are too tight and they have the same ones as they did 20 years ago when they were 10 sizes smaller. Some just belt their pants below their gut, making them obviously too tight.
 
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YinYangMom:
As for not turning around to offer her a sign of peace, that alone would have been good reason to not receive communion. The entire purpose for that gesture is to make sure that our hearts are free to receive Christ by releasing all anger, resentment, envy, disdain toward our brothers and sisters present in the Mass with us, with whom together, we have just offered our prayers and intentions to the altar before us. If we cannot release any ill thoughts toward our brethren then our heart is not ready to receive Jesus.
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I think maybe you misread his original post. He didn’t say that he had anger, resentment, envy, disdain or that his heart was not ready to receive our Lord but that he was not ready to shake hands with a woman who was dressed or lack thereof, that it was too much of a temptation to sin. I would like it if you could develop the idea that the sign of peace is 'a gesture that makes sure our hearts are ready to receive Jesus’ because I have never heard that before. I would hold that the most important thing that we have that tells us that we are properly disposed to receive our Lord in the Eucharist is the fact that we (knowing ourselve’s state) are living** in the state of grace**, which it sounds like he was trying to protect with all his effort by not extending his hand in the sign of peace! Whether it looked rude he was also showing her respect by refusing to look at her as a piece of meat and refusing to let her be an object of sin for him.
 
in response to your post i agree that some women need to cover it up. but sometimes you cant help it, I am well uhhhh well endowed lets say and i have cleavege in anything but a turtle neck. but i try my hardest to be modest. I would like to ask yall if it is wrong to wear make up and nice jewelry and attractive clothes to church? i sometimes feel a little self concious even when i know i look great, but thats what makes me feel self concious. last sunday i had a couple of ladies come and tell me how pretty i looked, i was wearing a new outfit for the first time. and i love big earrings so i was wearing those to match. but i dont know why i felt embarrassed by their compliments. is it wrong to look attractive in church?
 
WOW! awesome story! thanks for sharing that one!
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vluvski:
This is actually a true story. It was a large group of Bishops leaving a council meeting, and one kept staring at the woman. The other bishops warned him, “Father, sheild your eyes!” He turned to them with tears in his eyes saying, “Did you not see her beauty?” He was, of course, speaking of her beauty as a child of God.

The bishop, whose name escapes me, is a prominent saint. Begins with an ‘n’ maybe. The woman actually sought the bishop out wondering how someone could look on her with such love, and converted to become St. Palagia.
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TarAshly:
in response to your post i agree that some women need to cover it up. but sometimes you cant help it, I am well uhhhh well endowed lets say and i have cleavege in anything but a turtle neck. but i try my hardest to be modest. I would like to ask yall if it is wrong to wear make up and nice jewelry and attractive clothes to church? i sometimes feel a little self concious even when i know i look great, but thats what makes me feel self concious. last sunday i had a couple of ladies come and tell me how pretty i looked, i was wearing a new outfit for the first time. and i love big earrings so i was wearing those to match. but i dont know why i felt embarrassed by their compliments. is it wrong to look attractive in church?
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no…I think its good to look your best.
I doubt you would wear anything inappropriate…so accept the compliment…I bet you looked great 🙂
 
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TarAshly:
in response to your post i agree that some women need to cover it up. but sometimes you cant help it, I am well uhhhh well endowed lets say and i have cleavege in anything but a turtle neck. but i try my hardest to be modest. I would like to ask yall if it is wrong to wear make up and nice jewelry and attractive clothes to church? i sometimes feel a little self concious even when i know i look great, but thats what makes me feel self concious. last sunday i had a couple of ladies come and tell me how pretty i looked, i was wearing a new outfit for the first time. and i love big earrings so i was wearing those to match. but i dont know why i felt embarrassed by their compliments. is it wrong to look attractive in church?
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I also am sure that you looked great and that is ok. So much of the modesty discussion essentially becomes one requiring that women hide their femininity to the point that only sackcloths are approporate attire. Our masculinity or feminity are gifts from God and not something to be ashamed of.
 
Something else to consider is that young men or teens are used to certain fashions which the older generation is not accustomed to. A middle age man might be distracted by a tank top, where his grandfather may have have been distracted by skirts which did not reach the ankle.

Also, there are many opportunities for men (or women) to see more than a little cleavage just by clicking the mouse, so I am surprised most are not desenstized to certain fashions by now. This is my husband’s opinion by the way.
 
Pant suits aren’t going tobe any warmer than a long thick skirt with nylons underneath and maybe even boots (the nice black ones I mean) Going with your logic, we’d have to say then men should be able to wear skirts b/c women can. As far as men wearing tight pants, their is a difference b/w slacks that are form fitting and the womens pants that have half inch zippers! Guys don’t generally wear pants that show hip bones and 3-4" below the belly button. As far as them wearing tight pants, most guys don’t have the same curves as a woman, and they need to be mindful of the clothes they wear every bit as much as women do.
 
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migurl:
Pant suits aren’t going tobe any warmer than a long thick skirt with nylons underneath and maybe even boots (the nice black ones I mean) Going with your logic, we’d have to say then men should be able to wear skirts b/c women can. As far as men wearing tight pants, their is a difference b/w slacks that are form fitting and the womens pants that have half inch zippers! Guys don’t generally wear pants that show hip bones and 3-4" below the belly button. As far as them wearing tight pants, most guys don’t have the same curves as a woman, and they need to be mindful of the clothes they wear every bit as much as women do.
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I’m not going to give up wearing pants for you or anyone else. I find them warm and comfortable and easy to get around in. --Unlike your suggestion of wearing a long thick skirt with nylons and boots. I would look ridiculous and more importantly–feel ridiculous. Jesus wore a dress in his times, and I will wear pants in my time. You, however are more than welcome to wear your dresses and long skirts if you wish, just don’t criticize me for not adhering to your standards. BTW, I’m too old to be wearing butt-crack jeans. I’m only interested in regular, comfortable pants and pantsuits and jeans.
 
I am merely offering an explanation as to why certain churches may forbid women wearing pants. Too many girls and women wear those kinds of pants so it is easier to make it clear that women are too wear skirts than it is to explain to 40 teenage girls and college students why they have to leave.
 
And another thing, most of the long, warm skirts i wear not only look classy and modest but are very easy to get around in. As far as wearing boots goes, they look great too. Jesus dressed the way the culture dressed, and it wasn’t called a dress. Besides, it was really hot there and easier to make tunics than pant suits.
 
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