Lust

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I posted something on a different thread and it got me wondering what others views were on it.

That basic jist of it is: say you’re married, wifey wants to have sex, how does the husband get an erection without some form of lust? I would think arousal and lust would go hand-in-hand? I mean, I guess one could pray for an erection, not sure how well that would work-out, though.

Yes, there’s foreplay, but it doesn’t mean that the brain stops working during it. Aren’t lustful thoughts in the mix somewhere?

Am I way off-base?
 
I don’t think you are off-base at all. I often ask the same question when the topic of lust is brought up.

A man simply cannot perform without being in a state of arousal which is brought on by sexual stimulation of various forms. When you hear (many) catholics speak of this issue it appears as though there are different forms of arousal. One (the bad one) where a man is excited by the opposite gender. The other (the good one) is a similar event but is brought on by the love he feels for his wife.

I believe they are one in the same. NOT two different events that produce the same outcome.

This will not go over well at all but I’ll share my thoughts on this and take my lumps. A man is aroused by his wife not because he loves her but because she is female and simply arouses him. Loving her simply makes the occasion light years better. However having said that, the christian man is to do his best at only allowing this sexually stimulated state with his wife.

The whole idea conjurs up a ridiculous notion of the man, fighting off lustful thoughts while being with his wife. Well, men do not work that way. Possibly better said, men cannot work that way. Or we’d die out as a spieces pretty quickly.
 
Hello,

Though the actual event of arousal may be the same whether it’s directed to a spouse or someone besides one’s spouse, the moral implications are different. One is a good and the other is a perversion of that good. We should qualify that lust is not simply sexual arousal, but disordered sexual arousal. It is right for a man to be attracted to his wife and want to have union with her, but since the fall, our desires rebel against their proper guide (the intellect) and have a certain tendency towards disorder (concupiscence).
 
To me lust is when one looks at another and “wants” to be aroused soley for the arousal itself. Lust basically objectifies a person.

When a man is with his wife of course there is sexual arousal due to her being a female but it is evenly mixed with the love that you have for her. You are uniting souls as well as bodies. So really, lust is not something that whould be considered when we are speaking of our spouses. To lust after our spouse is to see them for their bodies only and to remove any connection with their soul. That is not a sacred union where two become one…teachccd 🙂
 
I posted something on a different thread and it got me wondering what others views were on it.

That basic jist of it is: say you’re married, wifey wants to have sex, how does the husband get an erection without some form of lust? I would think arousal and lust would go hand-in-hand? I mean, I guess one could pray for an erection, not sure how well that would work-out, though.

Yes, there’s foreplay, but it doesn’t mean that the brain stops working during it. Aren’t lustful thoughts in the mix somewhere?

Am I way off-base?
Yes, you are certainly way off base. The reason being that it seems you have a misunderstanding about what “lust” means. Lust means simply an inordinate desire for carnal sexual pleasure for itself alone isolated and separated from the unitive and procreative aspects of the conjugal act. It is selfish and at times infertile. By unitive is meant the intention of expressing that sacrificial love one has for one’s spouse and God which is necessarily fertile and must be thought of as a form of self-denial by placing God and one’s spouse before self. By procreative is meant the natural uninterruption of the possibility of giving life to offspring. The sin of lust lies in one’s intention, not in what one does or thinks during the conjugal act in order to get physically aroused. It is fine to get oneself aroused through foreplay in order to be able to perform well in expressing one’s love for one’s spouse, so long as one’s will intends only to express love to one’s wife and cooperate with God’s creativity in the divinely instituted natural gift of procreation.
 
Thank you all for your replies, especially Mijoy2, you brought up some good points.
 
I posted something on a different thread and it got me wondering what others views were on it.

That basic jist of it is: say you’re married, wifey wants to have sex, how does the husband get an erection without some form of lust? I would think arousal and lust would go hand-in-hand? I mean, I guess one could pray for an erection, not sure how well that would work-out, though.

Yes, there’s foreplay, but it doesn’t mean that the brain stops working during it. Aren’t lustful thoughts in the mix somewhere?

Am I way off-base?
Praying for an erection would be like removing ones coat in an effort to get warm. I gotta wonder if anyone in the history of mankind has ever pulled this off? I think sex is supposed to have a little bit of a “naughty” (not lustful) aspect to it.
😃
 
Praying for an erection seems rather sacrilegious and profane. It seems much worst than praying to win the lottery or getting a Ferrari. We must pray for things that we need, not for luxuries of that sort. God is not some sort of sex instrument anymore than he’s not some sort of big Wall Street bank that gives away free money to people who don’t need it or are not entitled to it.
 
Lust
The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate. This is the testimony of St. Paul in the Epistle to the Galatians, v. 19:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, . . . Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.”

Moreover, if it be true the gravity of the offences may be measured by the harm they work to the individual or the community, there can be no doubt that lust has in this respect a gravity all its own. Transgressions against the virtues other than purity frequently admit of a minor degree of malice, and are accounted venial. Impurity has the evil distinction that, whenever there is a direct conscious surrender to any of its phases the guilt incurred is always grievous. This judgment, however, needs modifying when there is question of some impure gratification for which a person is responsible, not immediately, but because he had posited its cause, and to which he has not deliberately consented. The act may then be only venially sinful. For the determination of the amount of its wickedness much will depend upon the apprehended proximate danger of giving way on the part of the agent, as well as upon the known capacity of the thing done to bring about venereal pleasure. This teaching applies to external and internal sins alike: “Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). However the case may stand as to the extent of the obligation under which one lies to refrain in certain circumstances from actions whose net result is to excite the passions, moralists are at one as to the counsel they give. They all emphasize the perils of the situation, and point out the practical dangers of a failure to refrain. It matters not that there is not, as we suppose, an initial sinful intent. The sheerest prudence and most rudimentary self-knowledge alike demand abstinence, where possible, from things which, though not grievously bad in themselves, yet easily fan into flame the unholy fire which may be smouldering, but it is not extinct.

Lust is said to be a capital sin. The reason is obvious. The pleasure which this vice has as its object is at once so attractive and connatural to human nature as to whet keenly a man’s desire, and so lead him into the commission of many other disorders in the pursuit of it. Theologians ordinarily distinguish various forms of lust in so far as it is a consummated external sin, e.g., fornication, adultery, incest, criminal assault, abduction, and sodomy. Each of these has its own specific malice–a fact to borne in mind for purposes of safeguarding the integrity of sacramental confession.

newadvent.org/cathen/09438a.htm
 
To me lust is when one looks at another and “wants” to be aroused soley for the arousal itself. Lust basically objectifies a person.

When a man is with his wife of course there is sexual arousal due to her being a female but it is evenly mixed with the love that you have for her. You are uniting souls as well as bodies. So really, lust is not something that whould be considered when we are speaking of our spouses. To lust after our spouse is to see them for their bodies only and to remove any connection with their soul. That is not a sacred union where two become one…teachccd 🙂
Nice work–thank you for sharing-
Thanks so much for this.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being aroused by your spouse, in fact quite the opposite. The problem comes when you stop seeing them as a person and want to have sex solely for your own pleasure and not out of Love. That is when it becomes lust. If you are acting out of Love then of course being aroused by your spouse is a good thing.
 
Can I bump in here and put forth my experience? My husband has long looked at every attractive woman as a lust object for his sexual gratification, and although he is trying to break this behavior, I think it has disordered our sex life greatly. I feel no unitive effects of our ‘lovemaking’ because for him it seems to be all about satisfying his carnal desires, sating his body, and not about unifying us at all. I feel so alone afterwards, so used, although I find all sorts of ways to please him, he seems uninterested in pleasing me and it would never occur to him to even check or bring me to orgasm after his even though I haven’t, not that just orgasm is my focus, but reinforcement and deepening of our love, which it never seems to be. Am I alone in this aloneness? Do other wives feel left behind? Is it ever to be just an activity, not a bonding?
 
Can I bump in here and put forth my experience? My husband has long looked at every attractive woman as a lust object for his sexual gratification, and although he is trying to break this behavior, I think it has disordered our sex life greatly. I feel no unitive effects of our ‘lovemaking’ because for him it seems to be all about satisfying his carnal desires, sating his body, and not about unifying us at all. I feel so alone afterwards, so used, although I find all sorts of ways to please him, he seems uninterested in pleasing me and it would never occur to him to even check or bring me to orgasm after his even though I haven’t, not that just orgasm is my focus, but reinforcement and deepening of our love, which it never seems to be. Am I alone in this aloneness? Do other wives feel left behind? Is it ever to be just an activity, not a bonding?
You are certainly not alone. It does happen at times that a spouse is sinned against rather than they themselves sinning. It is fine to continue to fulfill one’s obligation as a spouse in bed so long as one expresses disapproval of such sinfulness sometime beforehand and does not oneself commit such a sin. Hopefully, in time with your prayer and occasional gentle correction, he can change and therefore mature.
 
Maritial sexuality is a gift from God. It is a very spiritual act. I personally do not see why praying for an erection would be inappropriate - any more than praying before sex would be. If you are inviting God to perform a miracle and create a new life, seems prayer is appropriate

Now praying during sex might be somewhat distracting…:rolleyes:
 
Can I bump in here and put forth my experience? My husband has long looked at every attractive woman as a lust object for his sexual gratification, and although he is trying to break this behavior, I think it has disordered our sex life greatly. I feel no unitive effects of our ‘lovemaking’ because for him it seems to be all about satisfying his carnal desires, sating his body, and not about unifying us at all. I feel so alone afterwards, so used, although I find all sorts of ways to please him, he seems uninterested in pleasing me and it would never occur to him to even check or bring me to orgasm after his even though I haven’t, not that just orgasm is my focus, but reinforcement and deepening of our love, which it never seems to be. Am I alone in this aloneness? Do other wives feel left behind? Is it ever to be just an activity, not a bonding?
I think You have a common problem like many women do.Men are selfish, & it`s generally about sex pleasure for them
 
My husband has long looked at every attractive woman as a lust object for his sexual gratification, and although he is trying to break this behavior, I think it has disordered our sex life greatly. I feel no unitive effects of our ‘lovemaking’ because for him it seems to be all about satisfying his carnal desires, sating his body, and not about unifying us at all. I feel so alone afterwards, so used, although I find all sorts of ways to please him, he seems uninterested in pleasing me and it would never occur to him to even check or bring me to orgasm after his even though I haven’t, not that just orgasm is my focus, but reinforcement and deepening of our love, which it never seems to be.
I really enjoyed reading about Theology of the Body. I do not know if your husband would want to take the time to read the beginners guide to that or not. It might be something you could read and try to decide if it would be a good thing for him to read.

I am always surprised when I read about men not being concerned about their wife’s enjoyment during the marital embraced. That said - I suspect many/most woman would still feel as you do even if their spouse was more attentive to their physical needs, if the same underlying issues were present.

My wife felt the same way you do. Her feelings were not because I lustfully looked at other woman (she knows I love only her, want only her, and will always be with her). It was not because of failing to be physically satisfied (I care more about that than being satisfied myself). The main reason was artificial contraception (chemical or barrier). We mutual agreed to use it, but it was dis-unitive on a subconscious level. We would have never guessed it was the source of our sexual problems - or how much it was it was Spiritually killing us. After we switched to NFP, however, both became obvious (fwiw, I think it prevents a natural (chemical, physical) bonding between spouses). Once we chose nfp, our married life and faith life both improved dramatically - and continued to improve since then.

Simply put - sexuality outside the marriage embrace or while using artificial birth control is simply centered and focused on LUST. Believing anything else is only attempting to lie to yourself and your body.
 
I read TOB for Beginners and asked him to read it too, because I knew he never reads and would never get through the whole TOB. It opened his eyes a lot, but there are still many parts he does not understand or care to deal with. Also, after 6 children and the safety of carrying more children very much under question due to thin spots on my uterus and scars and 2 c secs and increasing complications each pregnancy especially as i got into my middle forties, we quit using nfp (only i was involved in charting, etc anyway; he never participated in any way) i had a tubal ligation, after the 2 last babies being ‘miracle’ and ‘surprise’ bonuses, which i regret (the operation, not the babies!!!) because that could be causing some of this problem. I feel he has a vary disordered view of women and only feels lust, not love.
 
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