Lust

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Katie1723:
Sorry fellas, but I would bet my last dollar that most men have had “thoughts” at one time or another about their wives. Goodness, y’all are human are’t you? Or just ashamed to admit it?
~ Kathy ~ 😉
No, we’re just too scared our wives are going to read this. 😃
 
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cynic:
you get pleasure from giving so it all works out. Conservatives need to be clearer on what defines lust as opposed to healthy desire. I would have thought lust involves degrading the other, rather than giving pleasure to, but then the dictionary defines it as “strong sexual desire” which doesn’t need to be bad.
Agreed. The pleasure from giving is different from the pleasure from taking, at least if we’re talking about a normal situation, because we could always imagine giving only for the purpose of feeling good with oneself.

Still, gifts are to be enjoyed rather than merely exchanged. Part of the job is to make the person feel good and even feel good about himself/herself. The guy has to make the lady feel good about herself and with her sexuality. On the other hand, it’s not like she shouldn’t do the same for him. The problem is when it shifts from giving what you can and taking what’s given to demanding what you can and giving what you have to give or what is specifically asked. If both are trying as best they can, out of own initiative, from the need of heart rather than sense of duty and take what’s given with joy and gratitude instead of rating and comparing and treat it like a gift and not something which they can demand, then it’s good. Wanting more and more I would call temparament rather than lust, if one isn’t consumed by it and if it’s wanting the spouse to want to give rather than our merely wanting to get some. I suppose the bad signs are feeling tempted to take by force what she doesn’t want to give or to go further than she really wants or to get from another woman what she doesn’t want to give.
 
Not to play the devils advocate too much but so far most of the definitions of lust are the strictly male perspective. I personally think about my wife and being intimate with her probably a lot more than she thinks about me in that way, but there are other fantasies I’m sure play out in her head that although not the same type might still fit under the title of lust.

I feel a lot of the “soap opera guys” open up the possibility for lust in women. To desire a man to be perfect and always say just the right thing is from what I can see a from of emotional lust. I’m sure you all have seen it many times. A woman strays not because another man is necessarily more attractive ect, but because she thinks he fill an emotional want. Let’s just call this Emotional Lust. In reality most of these men are manipulating the woman to think they are the face they present and the women doesn’t realize until it’s too late that they have been duped.

Anyways not meaning to de-rail the thread just thought I’d throw that out there. Lust doesn’t have to be the male version, we humans tend to covet what we see or think we see with an alarming proficiency. Ladies there is nothing more dangerous than the Soap Opera Man. Stick with the real men, we may not be the ideal but we are real and that is 100% better.
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
CCC 2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
But don’t we have a chicken and an egg thing going on here?
Needn’t I desire someone before I can exercise the “procreative and unitive purposes”?

A man and woman must meet and fall in love before procreating or practicing unity. Somewhere in the process there was, first, desire. How do we reconcile this?
 
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Mijoy2:
But don’t we have a chicken and an egg thing going on here?
Needn’t I desire someone before I can exercise the “procreative and unitive purposes”?

A man and woman must meet and fall in love before procreating or practicing unity. Somewhere in the process there was, first, desire. How do we reconcile this?
First off, I don’t think falling and love and lusting after someone are the same at all. Second, those people who marry out of lust tend to divorce rather quickly. Third, and most important, we have to understand that there is difference between healthy desire and lust. I’m of the opinion that the “procreative and unitive” function is quite naturally a part of the sexual desire. When you’re truly “in love” with someone, you naturally want to unite and procreate.

Obviously our Catechism would not ask us to do the impossible. Therefore, if it seems impossible, we are not interpreting it correctly.
 
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
CCC 2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
Disordered and inordinate are a subjective terms. What is disordered to one is in order to another. How do we measure desire? Desire in any context is a relative term at best.

How do we put a cap on to what degree we enjoy something?

“I enjoyed that too much, therefore it is wrong. Next time I won’t enjoy is a much. If I began to enjoy it to an x-degree, I’ll cease to progress in my enjoyment of it. I will attempt to lessne my level of enjoyment”.

Surfinfire, I don’t question that I may be misunderstanding or misinterpretating this. However, I do believe this is difficult to understand.
 
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Mijoy2:
Surfinfire, I don’t question that I may be misunderstanding or misinterpretating this. However, I do believe this is difficult to understand.
I won’t argue with you there!
 
Lust is not the same as desire.
Lust equals use.
Love equals gift.

What drives you more, a desire to give or a desire to receive?

Pope John Paul II discusses this issue at length in his “Theology of the Body” and the book Love and Responsibility.

JPII uses the phrase"sincere gift of self"

In the marital embrace try

  1. *]to give your entire self to her
    *]to celebrate your love of her entire person,
    *]to put her pleasure first,
    *]to affirm your marriage vows
    *]to accept the gift of her body
    *]to become one with her.
    *]to model the total exchange of love (as found between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

    Much confusion stems from the fact that the Catholic definition of the word lust is not the same as the world’s definition of the word lust.

    Concupiscense is also similar to lust.
 
I feel a lot of the “soap opera guys” open up the possibility for lust in women. To desire a man to be perfect and always say just the right thing is from what I can see a from of emotional lust. I’m sure you all have seen it many times. A woman strays not because another man is necessarily more attractive ect, but because she thinks he fill an emotional want. Let’s just call this Emotional Lust. In reality most of these men are manipulating the woman to think they are the face they present and the women doesn’t realize until it’s too late that they have been duped.
Might be, because with that sort of approach, things get a little masturbatory, to say the least… Then again, guys also have such wants, even if they are less likely than women are to realise them.

But I’d be careful. Falling for an idolised image rather than a person is more immature than anything lustful in the real evil sense. Making love to a concept, as someone put it once…
 
…oh man, i had the perfect picture for this thread, but i new you guys would nail me for it… so get your minds out of the gutter and think of naked elephants…

Peace:thumbsup:
 
Hmm… just looked on the question again. Foreplay without intercourse following looks like an example of lust.
 
CSPB, thanks so much for referencing Theology of the Body. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that! JPII has so much to say on the subject.
 
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