Luther and confession

  • Thread starter Thread starter santaro75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

santaro75

Guest
I heard from somewhere that Martin Luther went to confession and asked for forgiveness before he died. Is this true?
 
He did not go to Catholic confession if that is what you mean. It is a tall tale that he converted back to the church on his death bed. He did however practice confession to other Lutheran pastors till he died. In his writings he goes back and forth on whether confession is a sacrament or not. Sometimes he list as a sacrament othe times he does not. Like many thing Luther addressed he went back and forth on the issue.
 
If Luther confessed to other Lutheran pastors, and they were not ordained by the Holy Spirit like Catholic priests are,then they didn’t have the authority to forgive sins. So was he fogiven? and wasn’t he the one who taught that man cannot forgive sins only God can?
 
In Luther’s view, the role of the priest/pastor is to assure the penitent of God’s forgiveness. But this isn’t a peripheral, unnecessary thing. The pastor does exercise the power of the keys, in proclaiming the Word of forgiveness in an authoritative way. My own experience of confession and absolution fits Luther’s description. But then, by your view as a Catholic I have only once confessed to a priest who had the power to forgive sins, and then I did so illicitly (I once went to a Catholic priest and didn’t tell him I was not in communion with Rome). So no doubt my experience doesn’t count in your view.

More to the point, the view of the priest as a physician who diagnoses the disease and declares the person cured is common among the Orthodox and was dominant–or at least highly prevalent–in the West as well before the 13th century (see Peter Lombard’s Sentences). The idea that confession is a judicial act in which the priest actually forgives sins acting in the person of Christ did not become the Catholic view until relatively late.

Edwin

Edwin
 
40.png
Contarini:
In Luther’s view, the role of the priest/pastor is to assure the penitent of God’s forgiveness. But this isn’t a peripheral, unnecessary thing. The pastor does exercise the power of the keys, in proclaiming the Word of forgiveness in an authoritative way. My own experience of confession and absolution fits Luther’s description. But then, by your view as a Catholic I have only once confessed to a priest who had the power to forgive sins, and then I did so illicitly (I once went to a Catholic priest and didn’t tell him I was not in communion with Rome). So no doubt my experience doesn’t count in your view.

More to the point, the view of the priest as a physician who diagnoses the disease and declares the person cured is common among the Orthodox and was dominant–or at least highly prevalent–in the West as well before the 13th century (see Peter Lombard’s Sentences). The idea that confession is a judicial act in which the priest actually forgives sins acting in the person of Christ did not become the Catholic view until relatively late.

Edwin

Edwin
Click to expand...
Wow, Edwin. I never considered that it would be illicit for a person not in communion with Rome to receive confession. And whether it counts or not in our view is quite irrelevant, don’t you think? Far be it from us to judge your heart.

I believe the Sacrament of Reconciliation is returning to the image of a physician healing the sick in the West as well. That is how I view it. However, the West still sees the priest as acting in persona Christi.
 
40.png
WBB:
Wow, Edwin. I never considered that it would be illicit for a person not in communion with Rome to receive confession. And whether it counts or not in our view is quite irrelevant, don’t you think? Far be it from us to judge your heart.
Click to expand...
I didn’t do it this year because being dishonest (even by omission) in the confessional seemed kind of self-defeating! More so even than receiving the Eucharist illicitly (which I did a couple of times while in Germany but likewise gave up as dishonest).

And it’s not like I can’t find an Anglo-Catholic who will hear my confession. I just have to travel a bit in order to do so. But that’s no excuse.

Edwin
 
Isn’t he sounds like a traitor to his people? He attack the sacrament of confession and when he is dying he made a confession to a pastor which is also human?

I think Luther on his last breath convinced of the truth of catholicism and because of pride on accepting that he made a mistake, instead of confessing to a priest he just confess his sin to a pastor.

And maybe ask that pastor to pray for him.

How sad that he lead his people to darkness and lead them to lies.

Im curious where do you think Luther is at this very moment?
 
40.png
WBB:
Wow, Edwin. I never considered that it would be illicit for a person not in communion with Rome to receive confession. And whether it counts or not in our view is quite irrelevant, don’t you think? Far be it from us to judge your heart.

I believe the Sacrament of Reconciliation is returning to the image of a physician healing the sick in the West as well. That is how I view it. However, the West still sees the priest as acting in persona Christi.
Click to expand...
it would not necessarily be illicit for someone not in communion with Rome to approach confession, especially if the object were a baptized Christian in the process of seeking full communion and full initiation with the Catholic Church. What would be illicit is for someone not ordained a priest through the authority of the Catholic Church, in the person of the bishop who is successor to the apostles, to attempt to hear confessions and give absolution. that would be a grave sacrilege if he did it with the intention and understanding of himself and the penitent that a sacramental action was being done. this is not to say it would be wrong for a say a Protestant pastor to listen to someone recount their sins in the course of pastoral counselling, to hand on whatever belief he professes about contrition and forgiveness. He may be wrong in what he says, but if he is not attempting to confer a sacrament of the Catholic Church he is not doing anything illicit.

in answer to the second paragraph, God is in the Sacraments, He is not bound by the Sacraments. He can act when and how He wishes with any soul at any time, but the sacramental graces received by that soul are present through the merits of Jesus Christ, which are made present on the Earth through the continual participation in the Paschal Mystery through the Sacraments, flowing through the Eucharist, of the Catholic Church. This is why the Church is “holy” because she exists to sanctify the world through cooperating in Christ’s saving action.
 
40.png
Contarini:
The pastor does exercise the power of the keys, in proclaiming the Word of forgiveness in an authoritative way.
Click to expand...
How and/or from whom does a pastor receive the power of the keys?
40.png
Contarini:
The idea that confession is a judicial act in which the priest actually forgives sins acting in the person of Christ did not become the Catholic view until relatively late.
Click to expand...
This link seems to directly contradict your statement.

newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

Would you care to share your source?

As to the point of those outside of the church receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation, in order to receive the sacrament one must be seeking to return to full communion with the Catholic church.

From the Catechism

1422 “Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God’s mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church…”
 
Contafini on behalf of the catechism 1422 let me welcome you back to the one true church. 🙂
 
40.png
Tigerhawk:
How and/or from whom does a pastor receive the power of the keys?
Click to expand...
Their pastors get their ‘authority’ from Luther’s imagination 😉
 
Only the Catholic Church holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven. The Catholic priests& bishops, if legitimatly ordained,are the tools in which the Holy Spirit works to give us access to the keys.
 
Luther was quite devout and aware of his sin. He was constantly repenting of his sins. He would pray for hours on end until exhausting himself and falling unconcious to the floor.

Kind of reminds me of the people featured on ‘super saints’ on EWTN.

I’m sure Luther would’ve been made a saint, if it hadn’t been for his reformation work.
 
Chris LaRock:
Luther was quite devout and aware of his sin. He was constantly repenting of his sins. He would pray for hours on end until exhausting himself and falling unconcious to the floor.

Kind of reminds me of the people featured on ‘super saints’ on EWTN.

I’m sure Luther would’ve been made a saint, if it hadn’t been for his reformation work.
Click to expand...
Luther may well have been a Saint if he hadn’t changed the Faith so dramatically and wasn’t an anti-Semite. It’s a shame that Luther sought pride over service. You don’t reform the church by breaking off, you begin new churches by breaking off.
 
He tried to reform the church from the inside, but was excommunicated. What other choice did he have?
 
Semper Fi:
Luther may well have been a Saint if he hadn’t changed the Faith so dramatically and wasn’t an anti-Semite. It’s a shame that Luther sought pride over service. You don’t reform the church by breaking off, you begin new churches by breaking off.
Click to expand...
Absolutely 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top