Luther-Bashing is Anti-Catholic

[steve-b]

Here’s some history .

the Lateran Council in 1215, pronouncement on the “extermination” of heretics, Internet History Sourcebooks Project canon 3, (exterminate) comes from the Latin exterminare, William Whitaker's Words which means to “drive out” (ex- out of + terminous- boundary). In Latin it does nor mean to destroy or kill, but to drive out of the territory. The official language of the Church is Latin. The Church does not and did not change her position on this issue of capital punishment and has been consistent on the issue… Even pope Francis today is speaking out against capital punishment and there being no good reason for it…

Is that simple enough for you ? That is the Catholic Church official teaching and position on the subject. Need I say, that date does not show a new understanding for the Church.

steve-b:

good grief.

So you think that all the heretics should be “driven out”? From where, and to where? Are you now saying that you do NOT support heretics being burned in this life?

The purpose of giving you that history is to show the Church’s position, in writing, doesn’t and didn’t condone capital punishment,

Did I ever say, I object to the Church’s teaching? No. So your accusation is offensive.
gyanophore:

I am still confused why you have not been able to clearly state that you do not support the burning of heretics, but I guess this is as close as you can get?

I guess only someone like you can’t get the message.

Paul says to Bp Titus, “After admonishing such a person once or twice, have nothing more to do with them, They are perverted, and sinful, That person is self condemned.”

guanophore:

Which begs the question, why do you even interact with “heretics” here on CAF? You have traded posts with many of them much more than “once or twice”. It is clear that some of them are not at all interested or responsive to your “admonishing” so it is curious that you continue to drive in the tent stakes.

CAF reaches millions. Our answers on this site is NOT just limited to the one on one, we converse with.

Particular Judgement happens every second of every day for people who die. Particular Judgment Versus Final Judgment | Catholic Answers

guanophore:

Yes, we are in agreement on this point. But you did not answer the question.Do you think that heretics should be set on fire right now, so that you can get a jump start on the eternal fire?

Did I say that it is OK for us to do? No I gave the source where it says it is NOT ok for us to do. How is it you don’t get the point?

 

[Wannano]

steve-b:

Here’s some history .

the Lateran Council in 1215, pronouncement on the “extermination” of heretics, Internet History Sourcebooks Project canon 3, (exterminate) comes from the Latin exterminare, William Whitaker's Words which means to “drive out” (ex- out of + terminous- boundary). In Latin it does nor mean to destroy or kill, but to drive out of the territory. The official language of the Church is Latin. The Church does not and did not change her position on this issue of capital punishment and has been consistent on the issue… Even pope Francis today is speaking out against capital punishment and there being no good reason for it…

Is that simple enough for you ? That is the Catholic Church official teaching and position on the subject. Need I say, that date does not show a new understanding for the Church.

steve-b:

good grief.

So you think that all the heretics should be “driven out”? From where, and to where? Are you now saying that you do NOT support heretics being burned in this life?

The purpose of giving you that history is to show the Church’s position, in writing, doesn’t and didn’t condone capital punishment,

Did I ever say, I object to the Church’s teaching? No. So your accusation is offensive.
gyanophore:

I am still confused why you have not been able to clearly state that you do not support the burning of heretics, but I guess this is as close as you can get?

I guess only someone like you can’t get the message.

Paul says to Bp Titus, “After admonishing such a person once or twice, have nothing more to do with them, They are perverted, and sinful, That person is self condemned.”

guanophore:

Which begs the question, why do you even interact with “heretics” here on CAF? You have traded posts with many of them much more than “once or twice”. It is clear that some of them are not at all interested or responsive to your “admonishing” so it is curious that you continue to drive in the tent stakes.

CAF reaches millions. Our answers on this site is NOT just limited to the one on one, we converse with.

Particular Judgement happens every second of every day for people who die. Particular Judgment Versus Final Judgment | Catholic Answers

guanophore:

Yes, we are in agreement on this point. But you did not answer the question.Do you think that heretics should be set on fire right now, so that you can get a jump start on the eternal fire?

Did I say that it is OK for us to do? No I gave the source where it says it is NOT ok for us to do. How is it you don’t get the point?

While you would not want to light the fire you in other posts have given the impression you would favor civil authorities lighting the fires …Guess their not co-operating anymore?

 

[guanophore]

So your accusation is offensive.

Actually, I have not accused you of anything. I was asking a question, and it was not even my question. I copied it from another poster, wondering why you did not answer it.

I guess only someone like you can’t get the message.

Perhaps that is true. What am I “like”?

Our answers on this site is NOT just limited to the one on one, we converse with.

So you are hammering away at those you perceive as heretics, apostates, and schismatics as an evangelistic technique?

Did I say that it is OK for us to do? No I gave the source where it says it is NOT ok for us to do. How is it you don’t get the point?

No, you were just asked multiple times if you believed this, due to the material you posted, quite directly and specifically, and continue to refuse to answer the question. I will take this as your best answer. I think, for some reason, you are unable to come right out and say “of course not!!”. Perhaps this is part of your evangelistic technique as well?

 

[DignumEtJustum]

Based on what you said in a single sentence it doesn’t seem you’ve read the documents either. When it was suggested that the wording of the documents might lead to the Mass being offered in the vernacular instead of Latin, the council fathers broke out in laughter.

 

[guanophore]

it’s been over 50 years since VAT II and people are still sobbing over what happened after it.

The damage that was done by the “Spirit of Vatican 2” still leaves smoke in the building. We lost a whole generation of Catholics through poor catechessis, abysmal liturgy, and a great many abuses. It is appropriate to have lamentation.

 

[steve-b]

While you would not want to light the fire you in other posts have given the impression you would favor civil authorities lighting the fires …Guess their not co-operating anymore?

1st, I was accused of favoring it and that was proven wrong… Now I’m accused of favoring civil authorities doing it. Here’s your opportunity to prove that. Quote the post(s) .

 

[Wannano]

It has not been proven wrong and I have no time or interest in trying to find all those posts.

 

[deMontfort]

It has not been proven wrong and I have no time or interest in trying to find all those posts.

Then don’t make the accusation if you can’t be bothered to produce the supporting evidence.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

It has not been proven wrong and I have no time or interest in trying to find all those posts.

Then don’t make the accusation if you can’t be bothered to produce the supporting evidence.

You know what…you are right. I should not have wrote that.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

While you would not want to light the fire you in other posts have given the impression you would favor civil authorities lighting the fires …Guess their not co-operating anymore?

1st, I was accused of favoring it and that was proven wrong… Now I’m accused of favoring civil authorities doing it. Here’s your opportunity to prove that. Quote the post(s) .

Steve, I was wrong in taking a swipe at you. Please forgive me for that. Thanks.

 

[philipl]

Here someone goes again insulting catholics that don’t blindly follow their definition of who is and isn’t in line with the catholic faith. Luther excommunication hasn’t been lifted for a reason. That reason was that he was wrong. There are four marks of the true church, One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Without all four your ability to enter the kingdom of heaven is by gods mercy, where as a catholic it can be thru gods grace. period. No luther bashing just facts of the church.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

So your accusation is offensive.

Actually, I have not accused you of anything. I was asking a question, and it was not even my question. I copied it from another poster, wondering why you did not answer it.

When you said the following
“Are you now saying that you do NOT support heretics being burned in this life”?

You’re making 2 accusations.

1. that I supported heretics being burned in this life
2. that I now do not support heretics being burned in this life.

What I did was quote where the HS burned up, or will burn up, the bad guys

. Matthew 18:8 RSVCE - And if your hand or your foot causes - Bible Gateway

. Matthew 25:41 RSVCE - Then he will say to those at his left - Bible Gateway

. Jude 1:7 RSVCE - just as Sodom and Gomor′rah and the - Bible Gateway

guanophore:

So you are hammering away at those you perceive as heretics, apostates, and schismatics as an evangelistic technique?

No, you were just asked multiple times if you believed this, due to the material you posted, quite directly and specifically, and continue to refuse to answer the question. I will take this as your best answer. I think, for some reason, you are unable to come right out and say “of course not!!”. Perhaps this is part of your evangelistic technique as well?

Why not just say, you don’t like my sources.

 

[guanophore]

When you said the following

“Are you now saying that you do NOT support heretics being burned in this life”?

You’re making 2 accusations.

that I supported heretics being burned in this life
that I now do not support heretics being burned in this life.

What I did was quote where the HS burned up, or will burn up, the bad guys

No accusations, Steve, just questions. You were asked if you supported heretics being burned. You did not answer directly, but posted a lot of material about the awfulness of heretics It was still not clear what your position was regarding punishment for heretics. The second is a continuation from the first question, which was not answered previously. Again you posted a lot of material about heretics being burned.

Suffice to say that I am glad that you appear to be implying at this time that you do not support temporal punishment of heretics, with the exception of hammering them with their sins, which apparently is part of your evangelistic approach.

Why not just say, you don’t like my sources.

I think your sources are GREAT!!!

 

[Catholic_JIll]

Honestly, I’ve never had any Catholic around me openly complain about Lutherns. I have had a couple Protestants say some nasty things to me about being Catholic. (And I mean some really bad stuff.) I was so shocked I didn’t know what to say. I’m still concerned about that experience I now rarely talk to anyone about religious topics.

 

[philipl]

Isn’t this the truth. I have friend that its taken me years to get them to understand Catholicism. I live in Tennessee I mention I am catholic and some people see horns growing out of my head.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Wannano:

While you would not want to light the fire you in other posts have given the impression you would favor civil authorities lighting the fires …Guess their not co-operating anymore?

1st, I was accused of favoring it and that was proven wrong… Now I’m accused of favoring civil authorities doing it. Here’s your opportunity to prove that. Quote the post(s) .

Steve, I was wrong in taking a swipe at you. Please forgive me for that. Thanks.

No problem

 

[TheOldColonel]

I was recently in St. Andrews, Scotland and was shocked to find an over the top exhibit in the museum celebrating the destruction of the Catherdral which now stands in ruins next door. It was destroyed at the hands of angry Protestant mobs in the 1500’s. I was equally shocked to find out that this is a popular stop on “Reformation tours.” Things like this certainly remain an obstacle to reconciliation. I remain puzzled as to what there is to celebrate when it comes to the bloodiness of the Reformation and the resulting centuries of discord.

 

[steve-b]

When you said the following

"Are you now saying that you do NOT support heretics being burned in this life"?

You’re making 2 accusations.

1. that I supported heretics being burned in this life
2. that I now do not support heretics being burned in this life.

What I did , was quote in my posts where the HS burned , or will burn , the bad guys.

. Matthew 18:8 RSVCE - And if your hand or your foot causes - Bible Gateway

. Matthew 25:41 RSVCE - Then he will say to those at his left - Bible Gateway

. Jude 1:7 RSVCE - just as Sodom and Gomor′rah and the - Bible Gateway

Now if you translate that into I’m on the side of the HS, then okay, that’s true.

guanophore:

No accusations, Steve, just questions. You were asked if you supported heretics being burned. You did not answer directly, but posted a lot of material about the awfulness of heretics It was still not clear what your position was regarding punishment for heretics. The second is a continuation from the first question, which was not answered previously. Again you posted a lot of material about heretics being burned.

Suffice to say that I am glad that you appear to be implying at this time that you do not support temporal punishment of heretics, with the exception of hammering them with their sins, which apparently is part of your evangelistic approach.

appear to be implying?
when it is the HS (not me) who does it, as I quoted in links from scripture, who are you to question THAT?

What is true, is that, I don’t support or enable wrong in myself or others OR give the impression I support it. That’s clear from what I write by means of the links I give.

The reason for my view in the links I give, is ALSO clearly explained in what I’ve posted to you via those same links in the past.

Example: 4 days ago
Luther Did Not Start the Reformation - #217 by steve-b which you didn’t respond to.

Scroll down to the Ezekiel examples. 4 scenario types are described

specifically I would do all I can to be in scenario 2 & 4 and avoid #s 1 & 3

be sure and go to the last point of the post

 

[guanophore]

when it is the HS (not me) who does it,

Many religious persons throughout history have acted on what they believe was the wish of the Holy Spirit, literally burning and otherwise depriving Christians of life, limb, and liberty. Basically it boils down to what an individual or group of individuals believe is the will of the Holy Spirit.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

when it is the HS (not me) who does it,

Many religious persons throughout history have acted on what they believe was the wish of the Holy Spirit, literally burning and otherwise depriving Christians of life, limb, and liberty. Basically it boils down to what an individual or group of individuals believe is the will of the Holy Spirit.

I didn’t bring in religious persons.

1. I showed where religious persons (by quoting Church documents from an ecumenical council) were NOT to involve themselves in such events. The council referenced, took place in 1439. 80+ years before Protestantism was even a thought.
2. I showed from scripture where it was the HS who destroys and will destroy bad folks by fire. NOT individuals or groups of individuals doing that.