Luther succeeds in removing NT books - Effect on Protestantism today

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Just wondering what others think might be the effect if Luther had succeeded in removing Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation from the Protestant Bible.

I am no Bible Scholar bit I can see “faith alone” being strengthened without James.

I can’t even imagine the effect on modern protestant thought if Revelation was not in their bible.

I guess I’m curious as to what the effect would be on todays protestant beliefs if they lacked these books.

Peace
James
 
I think you’d basically have similar arguments currently used against the Deuterocanon. The rationale would have to be to pick and choose which ECFs may have questioned any of the missing books as evidence that the “early Church” rejected these books.

The only positive I could see about it is that these religious forums on the internet would probably lose a lot of the fanciful “prophecy” observations by amateur exegetes who make the book of Revelation say all kinds of crazy stuff. 😃
 
Just wondering what others think might be the effect if Luther had succeeded in removing Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation from the Protestant Bible.

I am no Bible Scholar bit I can see “faith alone” being strengthened without James.

I can’t even imagine the effect on modern protestant thought if Revelation was not in their bible.

I guess I’m curious as to what the effect would be on todays protestant beliefs if they lacked these books.

Peace
James
Hi, James.

That Martin Luther “removed” the deuterocanonical texts is actually a myth, per Tim Staples of CAL, if I remember a particular Open Forum Q&A edition.

Luther did reject the canonicity of the deuterocanonicals, but rather than having them removed outright from early Protestant texts, he had the books moved to the end of the book.

Later Protestants, using versions of the Authorized King James Bible (which included the deutrocanonicals), removed the deutrocanonical books completely–mostly to save printing costs.

The end-result, yes, is that many Protestant faiths think that the Catholics have a strange and “different” Bible in a similar way to how many other Christians see the LDS Church and their “third testament,” the Book of Mormon.
 
Hi, James.

That Martin Luther “removed” the deuterocanonical texts is actually a myth, per Tim Staples of CAL, if I remember a particular Open Forum Q&A edition.

Luther did reject the canonicity of the deuterocanonicals, but rather than having them removed outright from early Protestant texts, he had the books moved to the end of the book.

Later Protestants, using versions of the Authorized King James Bible (which included the deutrocanonicals), removed the deutrocanonical books completely–mostly to save printing costs.

The end-result, yes, is that many Protestant faiths think that the Catholics have a strange and “different” Bible in a similar way to how many other Christians see the LDS Church and their “third testament,” the Book of Mormon.
OK - Thanks for the clarification.

But those books are not in the Protestant Bible today. So - if the NT books were also missing from todays bibles, (and every protestant Bible for the last 400 years or so) how would it effect the Protestant community?

Peace
James
 
Hi James/all,

This is a really important issue and the more people give a perspective on this Id appreciate…

I recently got myself a Catholic bible and I must say, we have 7 books missing from the OT. 2 of which are books of wisdom! The are big questions that need asking, why did he do it? and why did everyone follow him?

I really enjoyed reading Tobit, Jude and both widsom books and I dont see why this was removed from the protestant bible… I read one quote online regarding luther and he had nothing but fowl words for the church, his attitude stunk (I wish I could post the link) - search on google for his quotes, you might get lucky…

I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread… thanks for starting it… it is the Holy Spirit speaking Im sure!

Regards,
Mark

PS In my opinion, had he removed any NT books from it, it wouldnt be the bible it is today! Its outrageous to think He wanted to abolish Hebrews/ Revelation etc… (no small books either)
 
Just wondering what others think might be the effect if Luther had succeeded in removing Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation from the Protestant Bible.

I am no Bible Scholar bit I can see “faith alone” being strengthened without James.

I can’t even imagine the effect on modern protestant thought if Revelation was not in their bible.

I guess I’m curious as to what the effect would be on todays protestant beliefs if they lacked these books.

Peace
James
I will not attempt to speculate what effect removal of those books would have on Protestant beliefs today for the simple reason that the beliefs of worldwide Protestantism vary so greatly today it would be like trying to climb a 500 foot pole covered with grease.

One thing for certain, though, when Dr. Luther unleashed his dogma of private judgment on the world, that instituted the start and growth of modern rationalism. The exaggerated claims of reason and the ignoring of all authority in the matters of religion were the natural outcome of Protestantism. When Protestantism discarded the authority of the Church, it still held to the authority of Scripture, but even the authority of Scritpure has been gradually disappearing under the solvent of private judgment.
 
This thread is very interesting. I can’t say much for Hebrews, Jude, and James except that “faith alone” would be more easily propagated, however I feel the removal of Revelation would make a MASSIVE impact on modern Protestantism.

If the book of Revelation was removed from the Protestant Bible I suspect all Protestant denominations would be split into two catagories; Pro-Revelation Protestants (believe Revelation was divinely inspired and belongs in the Bible) and Anti-Revelation Protestants (do not believe Revelation was divinely inspired and belongs in the Bible.)

If Revelation was removed, and there were two such catagories of denominations, I am sure there would be MANY different doctrines and traditions based solely on being “Pro-Revelation.” And there would probably be a small diversion between Pro-Revelation Protestants; those who take the book very literally and those who take a more symbolic approach.

And then among THOSE sects, there would be various interpretations of Revelation by Pro-Revelation “Literals” with every sect disagreeing with the other and claiming to have the ONE TRUE intrepretation of Revelation, and the same with the Pro-Revelation “Symbolic” group. Many Pro-Revelation Literals would claim that because of their position on the book of Revelation, they’re closer to God, know His will, have a better understanding of salvation, etc. and the same with the Pro-Revelation Symbolic group.

Now the Anti-Revelation Protestants would say satan “created” the book of Revelation to injur the unity of believers and divert attention from more important matters. And who did satan use to create this book of lies and distraction? The Catholic Church!!! The Anti-Revelation Protestants would be VERY actively against the Church, I’m sure of it.

Instead of the what? 30,000 denominations of Protestantism, we would have more like 60,000. All dependant on whether the book of Revelation is divinely inspired or not, symbolic or literal or both, how important it is, etc.

It would be, I suspect a MUCH hotter topic than faith vs works, tradition vs bible only, once saved always saved vs losing salvation etc. It would be THE “issue” with Protestants.

Of course this is all speculation and I could be wrong but I truly think this is what would happen. The book of Revelation is so controversial and strong and makes such a big impact, the fact that it exists and (in the case of it being removed from the Protestant Bible) just MAYBE being divinely inspired, would have a huge effect on Protestantism.
 
Yes, Luther did mutilate the written Word of God. And, that he did so, is not a myth.

The Catholic Church, through her Popes and Councils, gathered together the separate books that Christians venerated which existed in different parts of the world; sifted the false from the genuine; decisively and finally drew up a list or catalogue of inspired and apostolic writings into which no other book should ever be admitted, and declared that these and these only, were the Sacred Scriptures of the New Testament. The Councils of Hippo and Carthage in the fourth century, under the influence of St. Augustine (at the latter of which two Legatees were present from the Pope) settled and closed the ‘Canon’ of Holy Scripture, along with the Popes Innocent I in 405, and Gelasius, in 494, both of whom issued lists of Sacred Scripture identical with that fixed by the Councils. From that date all through the centuries this was the Christian’s Bible. The Church never admitted any other, and at the Council of Florence in the fifteenth century, and the Council of Trent in the sixteenth, she fulminated anathemas against all who should deny or dispute this collection of books as the inspired word of God.

Therefore, for protestantism to step in 1500 years later and pretend that the Scriptures needed revising, and that they alone know the true meaning of it, is an absurd claim. Only those who are ignorant of the true history of the Sacred Scriptures, their origin and authorship and preservation, could give ear to protestantism’s claims. Protestants cast out some book from the collection, took what remained, and elevated these into a new ‘Canon’, or volume of Sacred Scripture, such as had never been seen or heard of before, from the first to the sixteenth century, in any Church, either in Heaven above or on earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth!

Open a Protestant Bible, and you will find there are seven books fewer than there are in the Catholic Bible, and seven fewer than there were in every collection and catalogue of Holy Scripture from the fourth to the sixteenth century. The missing books are Tobias, Baruch, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, I Machabees, II Machabees, together with seven chapters of the Book of Esther and 66 verses of the 3rd chapter of Daniel (Daniel iii., 24-90, Douai version). These were deliberately removed, and the Bible bound up without them. In regard to the New Testament it required all the powers of resistance on the part of the more conservative Reformers to stop Luther from flinging out the Epistle of St. James as unworthy to remain within Holy Scripture. According to Luther, this was ‘an Epistle of straw’. In the same way, and almost to the same degree, he dishonoured the Epistle of St. Jude and the Epistle to the Hebrews, and the beautiful Apocalypse of St. John, declaring they were not on the same footing as the rest of the books, and did not contain the same amount of Gospel (i.e., his Gospel).

The presumptuous way in which Luther, among others, poured contempt, and doubt upon some of the inspired writings which had been acknowledged, cherished, and venerated for 1500 years would be scarcely credible were it not that we have his very own words in cold print, which cannot lie. They may be read in his Biography, or be seen quoted in such books as Dr. Westcott’s The Bible in The Church. And why did he impugn mentioned books? Because they did not suit his new doctrines and opinions. He had arrived at the **principle of private judgment **i.e picking and choosing what to believe. Whenever any book, such as the Book of Machabees, taught a doctrine that contradcited his new doctrines, or was repugnant to his individual taste, for example, that ‘it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from sins’ (2 Mach. xii., 46), well, so much the worse for the book; ‘throw it overboard’, was his sentence, and overboard it went. And it was the same with passages and texts in those books which Luther allowed to remain, and pronounced to be worthy to find a place within the boards of the new Reformed Bible. In short, he not only cast out whole books, but he mutilated some that were left. For example, not pleased with St Paul’s doctrine, ‘we are justified by faith’, and fearing lest good works (a Popish superstition) might creep in, he added the word ‘only’ after St Paul’s words, making the sentence run: ‘We are justified by Faith only’, and so it reads in Lutheran Bibles to this day. What is surprising, is the audacity of the man that could coolly change by a stroke of the pen a fundamental doctrine of the Apostle of God, St. Paul, who wrote, as all admitted, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. But this was the outcome of the Protestant doctrine of, individual judgment: no authority outside of oneself. However ignorant, however stupid, however unlettered, you may, indeed you are bound to cut and carve out a Bible and a Religion for yourself. No Pope, no Council, no Church shall enlighten you or dictate or hand down the doctrines of Christ. And the result we have seen in the corruption of God’s Holy Word.

The so-called reformers seem to have ignored the terrible threats in Galatians 1:8-9:

*But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. *

and Apoc. xxii., 19.

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city and from these things that are written in this book.

by The Right Rev. HENRY G. GRAHAM, Author of “Hindrances to Conversion,”
 
Just a small comment…

On these forums I can often read that “faith alone” is mostly disputed in Epistle of St. James. It seems to me that Matthew 25:34-46 is much stronger case against “faith alone”, as these are the words that Our Lord said. So, when talking to our protestant friends, on the issue of “faith alone”, I would always point to Matthew first, not James.
 
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