Luther...

[squeekster]

This was asked on another forum by someone else, but I thought that it was a fairly interesting question, so I’ll ask it here. If this isn’t the right forum, please move it.

Why do Catholics have such a big dislike for Martin Luther? Apparently his teachings are a real threat, at least to some peoples’ faith, as every board that I have gone to, there have been Catholics running Luther over the coals. There must have been some truth to what he said, because if he wasn’t some kind of a threat, people would just totally ignore him and what he said and taught would have been forgotten long ago.

 

[Ghosty]

Being a threat doesn’t mean the guy was right. There was truth in what he said, and that truth was already contained in the Church. The problem was that he mixed it with a bunch of untruths from outside the Church, such as salvation by faith alone.

He was a threat because he was a heretic, and all heresy contains truth. The problem is that the truth he taught was already being taught, and the rest was distortion and lies. Blatant lies are rarely a thread; lies washed down with a hint of truth are dangerous to the soul, because it hides the foul taste of poison.

The Church has never ignored heresy, because it has a job to protect human souls. Any possible misleading should be met with correction. It’s our mission from God.

 

[Genesis315]

Martin Luther created new doctrines that led to the mystical body of Christ being torn into 36,000 denominations.

People buy into all sorts of garbage. Look how many people today buy into the idea that abortion is ok. Just because people are easily misled doesn’t mean what they are misled by is true.

Many Protestants don’t realize that the doctrines they hold so dear were simply invented by a man–Martin Luther.

 

[adstrinity]

squeekster:

This was asked on another forum by someone else, but I thought that it was a fairly interesting question, so I’ll ask it here. If this isn’t the right forum, please move it.

Why do Catholics have such a big dislike for Martin Luther? Apparently his teachings are a real threat, at least to some peoples’ faith, as every board that I have gone to, there have been Catholics running Luther over the coals. There must have been some truth to what he said, because if he wasn’t some kind of a threat, people would just totally ignore him and what he said and taught would have been forgotten long ago.

Same reason we dislike the acts of Nestorian, Arius, Marcion, Donatus, & Mary Baker Eddy. These are all people who took good people away from the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church Jesus Christ founded.

whostartedyourchurch.com/

 

[cardenio]

You know what Martin Luther did? He pointed out a ton of garbage going on in the Catholic church - not doctine, but indulgences at 50% off - and he said it was garbage. He was right that it was garbage. Of course, the sixteen vermillion protestant churches have certainly hurt the unity of the Christian church, but he did help to purify the idiocy in the Catholic church.

Not positive on this because my source was weak (catholic from another message board), but I’ve heard it said that his last words were “I am still Catholic.”

Yes, Luther did some bad things. But because of Luther we got some wonderful things, like the counter-reformation and the Council of Trent. Granted, we shouldn’t have needed them, but we did need them.

Thank God for Martin Luther!

 

[Genesis315]

cardenio:

You know what Martin Luther did? He pointed out a ton of garbage going on in the Catholic church - not doctine, but indulgences at 50% off - and he said it was garbage. He was right that it was garbage. Of course, the sixteen vermillion protestant churches have certainly hurt the unity of the Christian church, but he did help to purify the idiocy in the Catholic church.

Not positive on this because my source was weak (catholic from another message board), but I’ve heard it said that his last words were “I am still Catholic.”

Yes, Luther did some bad things. But because of Luther we got some wonderful things, like the counter-reformation and the Council of Trent. Granted, we shouldn’t have needed them, but we did need them.

Thank God for Martin Luther!

I wouldn’t go that far. The reforms of the Council of Trent were already in the works and would have been implemented regardless of Luther. The Council was not totally reactionary. Obviously, it did have to react to things like the canon of Scripture.

Even if Luther did ignite a reform of indulgences, I’ll take a few more years of abuse of indulgences over millions of Christians being denied Christ in the Blessed Sacrament (not to mention seven books full of the Word of God).

 

[adstrinity]

cardenio:

Not positive on this because my source was weak (catholic from another message board), but I’ve heard it said that his last words were “I am still Catholic.”

Yeah, that’s not true. Wishful thinking, but, no. He held on to his heresy until the day he died.

 

[Ghosty]

cardenio: Luther held adamantly to very heretical beliefs, such as salvation by faith alone, that are directly contrary to Scripture. His criticisms of abuses were good, but he didn’t stop there. Not even close. He broke with Church teaching, and even with Scripture, intending fully to set up a new belief based on his personal interpretations that were novel at the time.

He was not a reformer, he was a heretic without a doubt.

 

[mark_a]

Luther sticks in our craw because he was more successful than many other reformers.

The nastiest modern day anti-Catholics’ beliefs are so far removed from the original reformers’ beliefs it ain’t even funny. But we still zero in on Luther. He is the big man of anti-Catholicism, just as the Pope is the the big man of Christianity. Everyone is gunning for him.

Having said that, much of the reform movement happened to Luther, not because of him. Church and state were so intertwined that the reform movement would easily have found another spokesman.

 

[Genesis315]

mark a:

He is the big man of anti-Catholicism, just as the Pope is the the big man of Christianity.

And if I’m not mistaken, Luther was probably the first to call the Pope the Anti-Christ.

 

[squeekster]

Genesis315:

Martin Luther created new doctrines that led to the mystical body of Christ being torn into 36,000 denominations.

People buy into all sorts of garbage.

36,000 denominations? Speaking of garbage. Care to list all 36,000?

What’s funny is that this magical number of denominations is as varied as there are Catholics that mention it.

 

[adstrinity]

36,000 denominations? Speaking of garbage. Care to list all 36,000?

In alphebetical order or as they are continuing to appear?

 

[But_for_Grace]

adstrinity:

In alphebetical order or as they are continuing to appear?

list them in reverse order of apprearance… Oh wait, if you tried that you would post as fast as you could type and still fall behind with all the new ones

 

[But_for_Grace]

my problem with Martin Lucifer … Oh I guess that is Luther isn’t it … is that he abandoned his vows and got married. :tsktsk:

Martin Luther was just another heritic in a long line of heritics, I don’t rate him any better than Arius, Marcion, or Calvin.

 

[Eden]

Martin Luther is the person to whom we can trace the birth of the Protestant movement. The Church, over 2,000 years has undergone reform many times. There are saints who were great reformers. Martin Luther was misguided when he left the Church and created a whole new religion. He didn’t just attempt to fix the corruption of some of the clergy - he reformed doctrine. The deposit of faith was handed down to us from Christ and the Apostles. To tamper with the deposit of faith is simply put - heresy.

 

[Valz]

But for Grace:

list them in reverse order of apprearance… Oh wait, if you tried that you would post as fast as you could type and still fall behind with all the new ones

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

[Atreyu]

Yes there are a lot of variations in this “magical number”, but that is only because it is so difficult to pin down exactly how many denominations there are! Also, it would depend on your definition of the word “denomination”, as some individual churches could be considered a separate denomination under one defintion, and under other definitions they wouldn’t be. However, it is irrelevant exactly how many Protestant denominations there are. If I ever talk about how many there are, I just say there are thousands. But even if there were only 50 then the divisiveness of Protestantism is amply evident.

36,000 denominations? Speaking of garbage. Care to list all 36,000?

What’s funny is that this magical number of denominations is as varied as there are Catholics that mention it.

 

[scylla]

Hello Squeekster, I am glad you stayed and started a thread, I am sorry someone brought up the 36,000 number as it is distracting to the point at hand. Unfortunately some people take this as an opportunity to question the number and argue about it instead of the actual point.

The number is an estimation from a several reports on denominations and the new ones starting each week, which are a scandal to Christianity. The point to focus on more than one denomination is confusing. Having 10 denominations is horrible. Having 100 is even worse, well you can see my point.

The primary reason for this division is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, which has done extremely little for the unity of Christianity. If I started a Church in my house today, and it agreed with your beliefs and I lived close to you would you join it?
This is what Catholics feel is bad about what Martin Luther brought about by introducing the idea of every man being able to have the authority to start his own church.

I would have a lot more respect for Martin Luther if he stayed loyal to the Church and helped it reform. This is similar to the respect I would have to a man who stays with his wife and saves his marriage with perseverence, compared to one who finds another when things get rough.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Michael_Francis]

I am reminding all of you to maintain the very soul of charity in your posts or I will close the thread and there could be other repercussions as well.

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

36,000 denominations? Speaking of garbage. Care to list all 36,000?

What’s funny is that this magical number of denominations is as varied as there are Catholics that mention it.

Peace be with you!

The last “census” number I remember hearing is around 33,000. This was a few years ago, if I am remembering correctly, so at the rate Protestantism keeps dividing, 36,000 sounds like it could be about right today.

In Christ,
Rand