Lutheran Archbishop on Full Communion with Episcopalians/ Old Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter EvangelCatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
aidanbradypop said:
Right. I have heard the same in my Lutheran circles.

This kind of goes with the above. We are in full communion with the ELCA but there is still a divide among the faithful on certain issues.
Wouldn’t lutherans need to be ordained again with AS in order to be in FULL communion?
Click to expand...
The differences between Lutheran and Anglican per Provoo Communion and Call to Common Mission are not apparent since Apostolic Succession has been adopted by the ELCA & Lutheran Church of Canada. I don’t think it is necessary to have an Episcopal bishop lay hands on Lutheran clergy any longer [or a European Lutheran bishop to be present at American ordinations].
 
we share Clergy on occasion with a Lutheran Parish - it is refreshing -so far no sharing with Old catholics-in our area -the Old Catholics really are a very diverse bunch at least in Florida

We had a PNCC parish and it closed-they left communion with the Episcopal Church when we began to ordain women

We are also in full communion with the Moravian Church-we have one in our area but no Clergy sharing as of yet

Our core beliefs are common with the ECUSA and ELCA we are making the attempt to slowly unify-

I think over the next few decades you will see ECUSA and ELCA mover closer-however both have Bishops and some central structure-I doubt the Bishops will rush to give up their individaul influence

I personally see no hope for communion with the RC Church-1 in every 10 or so members of the Episcopal Church are former Catholics , about 200,000 a larger number than the < 2000 or so who joined the Ordinariate -the Episcoaplians I know just do not want it :mad:
 
cmodrmac said:
we share Clergy on occasion with a Lutheran Parish - it is refreshing -so far no sharing with Old catholics-in our area -the Old Catholics really are a very diverse bunch at least in Florida

We had a PNCC parish and it closed-they left communion with the Episcopal Church when we began to ordain women

We are also in full communion with the Moravian Church-we have one in our area but no Clergy sharing as of yet

Our core beliefs are common with the ECUSA and ELCA we are making the attempt to slowly unify-

I think over the next few decades you will see ECUSA and ELCA mover closer-however both have Bishops and some central structure-I doubt the Bishops will rush to give up their individaul influence

I personally see no hope for communion with the RC Church-1 in every 10 or so members of the Episcopal Church are former Catholics , about 200,000 a larger number than the < 2000 or so who joined the Ordinariate -the Episcopalians I know just do not want it :mad:
Click to expand...
Actually, I see optimism. Benedict all but certified Lutherans and Anglicans as Catholic. Francis must be steady and judicious but I do believe that the majority of Lutherans and Anglicans will reunite with Rome. Which means that Francis will welcome open-mindedness.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Actually, I see optimism. Benedict all but certified Lutherans and Anglicans as Catholic. Francis must be steady and judicious but I do believe that the majority of Lutherans and Anglicans will reunite with Rome. Which means that Francis will welcome open-mindedness.
Click to expand...
Not sure what all but certified means, but did His Holiness happen to mention Apostolicae Curae?

GKC
 
cmodrmac said:
…I personally see no hope for communion with the RC Church-1 in every 10 or so members of the Episcopal Church are former Catholics , about 200,000 a larger number than the < 2000 or so who joined the Ordinariate -the Episcoaplians I know just do not want it :mad:
Click to expand...
Where did this 1 in 10 figure come from? Is there some specific study?
The US Ordinariate generally includes some of the Episcopalians who converted to the Catholic Church in the last couple years, who happen to live near a congregation that came in as a group and formed a new parish. Most Episcopalians-turned-Catholics converted more than a couple years ago, and/or came in as a family, and joined pre existing Catholic parishes.
They mostly aren’t included in the Ordinariate figures; did you have other data that includes them? Did you have a reason for the comparison?
 
Sorry, this is a confused Catholic here. Does Lutheran’s term of ‘full communion’ correspond exactly with the Catholic understanding?

I mean there are differences of views among Lutherans on the number of sacraments and the nature of the episcopal office. I am not saying there that union is impossible (especially if Anglicans and Prebyterians in India can unite), but I may be reading the thread with an understanding of the term different from the way the writer inteded.

I am reminded of the priest at my neighbourhood Anglican parish in London, who considers himself more in communion with the Protestant pastors down the road than with his High-church Bishop. I realise then that there are more than one understanding of the term, being in communion.
 
Lutherans define “full communion” to mean eucharistic hospitality, joint ministries, interchange of clergy. In practical terms it has been a slow process. I know of Lutheran-Episcopal parishes and even Lutheran-Presbyterian but it is not widespread.

The archbishop is pointing out how easy it is for Lutherans to be in full communion with Anglicans/ Old Catholics.
 
GKC said:
Not sure what all but **certified **means, but did His Holiness happen to mention Apostolicae Curae?

GKC
Click to expand...
Poor choice of word. During Benedict’s papacy, the Joint Declaration on Justification coupled with a warm Vatican relationship with Lutherans opened doors that were closed tight for 500 years.

I am less informed about the Anglican—Roman Catholic International Commission but understand that Anglicans seek unification with both Lutherans and Catholics.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Poor choice of word. During Benedict’s papacy, the Joint Declaration on Justification coupled with a warm Vatican relationship with Lutherans opened doors that were closed tight for 500 years.

I am less informed about the Anglican—Roman Catholic International Commission but understand that Anglicans seek unification with both Lutherans and Catholics.
Click to expand...
Yes, that does seem to be somewhat less startling than the original formulation suggested.

Anglicans are a diverse lot. Hard to accurately make sweeping generalizations, such as the above, about them. And whatever the ARCIC may be concluding, the RCC certifying any of them, not in communion, as Catholics in any sense, is not among the publications.

GKC
 
EvangelCatholic said:
During Benedict’s papacy, the Joint Declaration on Justification coupled with a warm Vatican relationship with Lutherans opened doors that were closed tight for 500 years.
Click to expand...
Kind of an odd way of putting it, since the JDDJ was several years before his papacy; but I think I get your point. 🙂
 
jimkhong said:
Sorry, this is a confused Catholic here. Does Lutheran’s term of ‘full communion’ correspond exactly with the Catholic understanding?
Click to expand...
I would say No … although I guess it depends on *which *Catholic understanding of it you’re talking about. (Personally, I’m rather sympathetic to the Orthodox view that full communion requires doctrinal agreement.)
 
Peter_J said:
Kind of an odd way of putting it, since the JDDJ was several years before his papacy; but I think I get your point. 🙂
Click to expand...
I get his point, too, particularly since the JDDJ probably doesn’t happen without Cardinal Ratzinger.

Jon
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Poor choice of word. During Benedict’s papacy, the Joint Declaration on Justification coupled with a warm Vatican relationship with Lutherans opened doors that were closed tight for 500 years.

I am less informed about the Anglican—Roman Catholic International Commission but understand that Anglicans seek unification with both Lutherans and Catholics.
Click to expand...
I do not know about other Anglicans in the Communion or outside, but for the Episcopal Church, I do not see a rush to join Rome anytime soon. Of course there are certain individuals that wish to do so, mainly Anglo-Catholics, but even some of them wish to remain Anglican.

I see more of a Anglican/Lutheran Communion or Anglo-Catholic/Orthodox communion more than ?/Rome. 🤷
 
aidanbradypop said:
I do not know about other Anglicans in the Communion or outside, but for the Episcopal Church, I do not see a rush to join Rome anytime soon. Of course there are certain individuals that wish to do so, mainly Anglo-Catholics, but even some of them wish to remain Anglican.

I see more of a Anglican/Lutheran Communion or Anglo-Catholic/Orthodox communion more than ?/Rome. 🤷
Click to expand...
I agree. Rome continues to improve relations with Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc.; but I don’t see us entering into a full communion agreement with any major groups any time soon. (Possibly with the PNCC or the ACoE, but even that doesn’t seem terribly likely.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top