Lutheran baptism

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on_the_hill

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A Lutheran coworker is very active in her church.

My coworker’s mother has custody of her nephew. He’s five years old.

His father is my coworker’s brother. The boy’s father and mother are not married.

My coworker desperately wants to have the boy baptized. The church’s pastor will not do it because she says the boy’s parents aren’t interested in having it done. The boy’s parents have made a wreck of their lives. They’re not in any position to make decisions about the boy, and have no religious faith whatsoever.

Are there alternatives?
 
It would depend on how long her right to custody of the boy is for.
It is just a short while or an indeterminate amount of time, nothing can be done.
But if she has major custody of the boy for a considerable length of time, then the pastor might agree.
 
If the parents aren’t interested, can’t your co-worker baptize the child? I thought anyone could perform a baptism in an emergency?
 
Many years ago when my divorced aunt passed away suddenly, her 7 year old son came to live with my family as his father was an alcholic and unable to care for him. Although my Dad only worshipped rarely, my Mom, Grandma and I were there every week; and our WELS pastor baptized him. I was a young adult, and was one of the Godparents (Lutherans call them sponsors).
 
“Here is the water; what is preventing me from being baptized?”
 
Lost_and_Found said:
If the parents aren’t interested, can’t your co-worker baptize the child? I thought anyone could perform a baptism in an emergency?
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In the Catholic faith, she could. I don’t know about the Lutheran rules.

Mostly I think she’s upset that the pastor is hedging on the baptism, considering that she has devoted enormous energy to helping the church reach out to the people in the community. It’s an inner city church, right in the middle of all the violence & crime that entails. She feels betrayed by the pastor’s attitude.
 
Custody is the big issue here. I know of a couple of Lutheran parishes that have been threatened with lawsuits because grandma and grandpa had little Suzy baptized without mom and dad’s consent. Which type of Lutheran church does she go to? ELCA? LCMS? WELS? There is a difference in approach to doing baptisms within these churches.
 
Lutheran lay people are allowed to baptize in the case of actual emergency, and do need to report the baptism to their pastor afterward.
 
ndismyhome said:
Custody is the big issue here. I know of a couple of Lutheran parishes that have been threatened with lawsuits because grandma and grandpa had little Suzy baptized without mom and dad’s consent. Which type of Lutheran church does she go to? ELCA? LCMS? WELS? There is a difference in approach to doing baptisms within these churches.
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What on earth would this ‘lawsuit’ be? I thought American courts did not recognize Christianity as the true religion.
 
on_the_hill said:
Thanks.

I think it’s permanent custody.
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If it’s permanent custody, I can see why that Pastor’s refusal to baptize the child seems really odd. Looking at our liturgy, our sacrament of baptism for infants really presupposes that the parents are involved - promises are made to raise the child up in the faith by the parents. So without the parents and sponsors (godparents) to answer for the child, this is problematic.

If I had to guess, as the child becomes older and can answer for themselves, the pastor would be more willing to do a baptism.
 
on_the_hill said:
A Lutheran coworker is very active in her church.

My coworker’s mother has custody of her nephew. He’s five years old.

His father is my coworker’s brother. The boy’s father and mother are not married.

My coworker desperately wants to have the boy baptized. The church’s pastor will not do it because she says the boy’s parents aren’t interested in having it done. The boy’s parents have made a wreck of their lives. They’re not in any position to make decisions about the boy, and have no religious faith whatsoever.

Are there alternatives?
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Excuse me for asking but the pastor refusing to baptize this child is wrong! This pastor (?) is making judgments on the child’s parentage which are not his concern. Take this child to a local RC church and get the deed done.
 
benjohnson said:
If it’s permanent custody, I can see why that Pastor’s refusal to baptize the child seems really odd. Looking at our liturgy, our sacrament of baptism for infants really presupposes that the parents are involved - promises are made to raise the child up in the faith by the parents. So without the parents and sponsors (godparents) to answer for the child, this is problematic.

If I had to guess, as the child becomes older and can answer for themselves, the pastor would be more willing to do a baptism.
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Excuse me! Why should the parents faith have anything to do with the fact this child needs to be baptized. Poor kid can’t be responsible for his know nothing parents. A child in need of baptism should not be held accountable for his parentage. Is your way of thinking a “Lutheran” thingy?
 
mayogirl25 said:
Excuse me!
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Yes!
Why should the parents faith have anything to do with the fact this child needs to be baptized. Poor kid can’t be responsible for his know nothing parents. A child in need of baptism should not be held accountable for his parentage.
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Go ask your Catholic priest if he would perform the sacrament of baptism on child without the parents permission - without the child’s life being in immanent danger. I absolutely know it won’t be an immediate “yes.” You may convince the priest to eventually do so, but he would have to very carefully weigh the issues first.

That we are cautious on the sacrament of Baptism is a good thing - theologically there are potential dangers to a soul that is baptized that later doesn’t repent and seek forgiveness from the Lord. We are also cautious with our communion as well.
Is your way of thinking a “Lutheran” thingy?
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A “Lutheran” thingy? What would that be?.. is it smaller than a breadbox?
 
benjohnson said:
Yes!

Go ask your Catholic priest if he would perform the sacrament of baptism on child without the parents permission - without the child’s life being in immanent danger. I absolutely know it won’t be an immediate “yes.” You may convince the priest to eventually do so, but he would have to very carefully weigh the issues first.

Yes you are correct in that a RC priest would first question but would most likely succumb to the request since it is not really that much of a problem anyway.

That we are cautious on the sacrament of Baptism is a good thing - theologically there are potential dangers to a soul that is baptized that later doesn’t repent and seek forgiveness from the Lord. We are also cautious with our communion as well.

What is the big deal about being cautious with your Baptism (which we RC recognize anyway) that you can’t baptize a little child? You don’t have to worry about being cautious with your “communion” since it isn’t recognized as such by us anyway!

A “Lutheran” thingy? What would that be?.. is it smaller than a breadbox?
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A “Lutheran” thingy is the whole thingy after and makes it all not counting anyway since it doesn’t figure into anything. Sorry but it is what it is.
 
mayogirl25 said:
A “Lutheran” thingy is the whole thingy after and makes it all not counting anyway since it doesn’t figure into anything. Sorry but it is what it is.
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I tried to understand what you wrote, but I’m afraid I don’t.
 
Indifferently said:
What on earth would this ‘lawsuit’ be? I thought American courts did not recognize Christianity as the true religion.
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I never meant to imply that there was a valid reason for the threat, only that it has been threatened to a couple pastors I know.
 
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