Lutheran/Catholic Relationship advice

[Catherine2009]

I am Catholic and am dating someone that is a Lutheran. We have been dating for about 16 months. We’ve struggled from day one with our religious differences, and I knew it was going to be an issue down the road. Now that we are at the point where we feel like we would like to get married at some point in the near future and are right for each other. However, we know have to come to some sort of agreement on our religious differences. I know that some people stay their respective denominations and get married, but we feel like we need to be unified in our beliefs before marriage. Even if we decided that being different denominations was ok, I don’t feel it is fair to him to say we have to raise our children Catholic, when he believes so strongly in his Lutheran faith.

We will not be able to explore each others denominations by going to any classes at each others churches until July (due to living/job situations). He says that he would be willing to become Catholic if he can’t find any dogmas and doctrines that he disagrees with. However, he wants me to be open to becoming Lutheran just as he is being open to possibly becoming Catholic, but I am having a very hard time with this because I feel at home in the Catholic church. He has also stated that if he becomes Catholic, that if later down the road, the Catholic church comes out with a doctrine he does not believe is correct, that he should not be bound by this and so he would possibly have to rethink being Catholic.

I think it would be such a shame to have to end something this good when our denominations are so close in their respective beliefs. However, I don’t want to ruin the rest of my life by marrying someone that I can’t be in complete unity with. I am looking for any wisdom or advice anyone can provide. Thank you!

 

[BenM]

Personally, this whole situation seems to me like its going to cause a lot of damage eventually; you should not have to compromise your faith, or have it even be an option, for anyone - no matter how good the relationship is. Even if the person you date does convert, it sounds like they would be doing it for all the wrong reasons, and are not sincere about it. More importantly, as a Catholic you also have a responsibility to do everything you can to raise any children you have Catholic as well.

My advice is that you should be with another fellow Catholic and save yourself and any future children a lot of unnecessary conflict.

 

[manualman]

I wish I had good advice for you.

In my own life, I saw this train wreck coming when dating an evangelical protestant girl and broke up with her before I got too attached.

Some people find ways to make it work. I can’t see a way. For me, what I believe about eternity and the meaning of life is the FIRST priority I had to have in common with a mate. (Found her too!)

First off, I think you need to have a decent handle on what actually you differ on in convictions. Parish classes vary wildly in their worth and accuracy about the catholic faith. IMO, you are best off going with a reliable book on the subject. I suggest ordering the “Introduction to Catholicism” referenced at this link: catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0187.html

Don’t be put off that it’s a high school freshman textbook. It rocks and it will provide a very sound, simple and clear explanation of the faith for your fiance (and you!). I wish these were around when I was in high school!

 

[4Squarebaby]

Things don’t look promising if you have struggled since day one. Perhaps it was not meant to be? For the record I am in what the Catholics would call a mixed marriage.

 

[1ke]

I don’t want to ruin the rest of my life by marrying someone that I can’t be in complete unity with.

Then don’t marry someone you are not in religious unity with. It’s really as simple as that.

You should not want to remain a Catholic because you are “comfortable” being Catholic. You should want to remain Catholic because it is the Church that Christ founded and holds the fullness of Truth. You should want to remain Catholic because it is in the Catholi Church that the Sacraments can be found.

Neither should he convert to please you. He should convert because it’s the Truth. And, he is showing how deeply his Protestant mind fails to grasp the idea of objective truth by stating in there is a doctrine he doesn’t like he will “rethink” being Catholic.

Maybe he will want to become a Catholic, and maybe he won’t. It should be because he finds the faith to be true, not to marry you.

I’m just sorry you didn’t take this more seriously 16 months ago. It would have saved you a lot of heartache.

 

[jwashu]

What branch of the Lutheran Church is he? That could make a big difference. I have a friend that is Missouri Synod and they are so close to Catholic he has thought about converting just to get the discount on the parish school! (both of their families are generational MSL). MSL believe in real presences etc…

I believe the other branches are more liberal but one being much more liberal than the other (like Presbyterians, PCA is conservative while the PC-USA church is pretty liberal).

As a convert I wouldn’t compromise at all though. His church probably has enough of the Truth to get people to Heaven but your Church has the Fullness of Truth.

It might be harsh for him to hear this but I believe that if he truly wants to serve the Lord and TRULY researches what the Church really believes, he will convert and not even mention you considering the Lutheran church.

For one thing, if he has ever actually read Luther he will know that the Catholic Church of today is probably more like Luther’s vision than the Lutherans are (except possibly the MSL). I post some on a Presbyterian board that tries to convert Catholics (I’m a former Presbyterian) to keep my apologetic skills up. This is my signature line…

“It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts…” - Luther

Did you know that there is a Lutheran Rosary?

Have him take a look at www.catholicbridge.com from a high level standpoint about the Church. Then there are a number of good books and resources here at CA as well. I found the works of Currie, Hahn, Ray, Chesterton, Keating, Armstrong and Grodi to be helpful. More importantly… he needs to read some of the Early Church Fathers.

As someone who was raised Baptist I was taught all kind of stories that were just down right lies about the early Church. Later as a Presbyterian and almost a Minister it was truly sad how the ECF were twisted by some of the Fundamentalist. If you read them, they are Catholic, even as a Presbyterian I knew this… I just didn’t take the time to truly study. Once I did I was on my way home…

As a Catholic, even if he didn’t convert, you would have to agree to raise your children Catholic. If he, after studying (even if he chose to stay Lutheran) isn’t FULLY ok with this… it might be a deal breaker.

I was very lucky, although our families were Baptist (my wife and I) when I decided to convert my wife gave me her full support and there were only a few discussion with family… all which ended with, wow I didn’t realize that. We were truly blessed.

I pray that your possible spouse will take the time to learn what the Church really teaches. There are still things we just have difficulty accepting on a few moral issue but we try our best to follow what we pledged at Easter 08. The bottom line though is that we LOVE being Catholic and are truly blessed in so many ways. I would pray that if this is the young man for you, that you two would enjoy the same renewal and future journey together!

Sincerely,
Joe

 

[littlepreo]

Hi.

Except for the most recent post, I think that the advice you’ve been given so far is terrible! Marriage is all about working out differences, and it can be a beautiful thing to go through!

My wife and I were in almost the same situation. I was Catholic and she is (still) Lutheran. We’ve been married for almost 1 year and we’re getting close to the home stretch. My wife has recently expressed an interest in converting, but there are still some issues. Here’s how we’ve handled it so far:

When we started dating, issues definitely came up. We agreed to always discuss them rather than ignore them. There were some rocky conversations… but it got better after a few years. Patience!

We tried to focus on what we had in common. For example, we read Mere Christianity together. I don’t think there was a single thing we disagreed on in the entire book! This helped us realize we had far more in common than different.

We read and prayed together almost daily. Again, this helped us focus on what we had in common.

We were in a long-distance relationship for several years so we couldn’t attend each other’s churches very often. This caused us to both put down ‘roots’ in our respective churches more. It’s just reality- it’s not like I was going to get involved in a local Lutheran church by myself, or vice versa.

When my wife and I came to differences between our religions we agreed to follow Truth. This meant that we *both *were open to changing if that’s where we were led by the Holy Spirit. After all, if the Catholic Church really is the “pillar and foundation of truth” then what do we have to fear? Just seek truth and you’ll find Christ with his bride, the Church. This also helped take the pressure off of my wife, who felt that the burden of conversion was solely on her shoulders.

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[littlepreo]

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Once we were engaged, we definitely had a few more difficult conversations. Rather than trying to convert before marriage, we decided to set a goal to be of the same faith by the time we had any children. We decided not to convert before marriage because we felt it was too rushed. We wanted it to be sincere.

I began spiritual direction with a very holy Sister once or twice a month. She and I often discussed issues relating to my wife (fiancé at the time).

My wife and I read “Rome Sweet Home” together (per the recommendation of my spiritual director). This is an excellent book about a married couple who converted to the Catholic Church. The husband, Scott Hahn, was a minister at an evangelical church so it was a huge life-changing decision for them. His wife, Kim, did not convert right away and they went through considerable challenges. One of my favorite parts of their story is when Scott came home from telling his conversion testimony at a church event. Kim told Scott: “Just don’t expect me to go running around giving my testimony, if I do join.” To which Scott replied, “I wouldn’t want you to convert until you couldn’t wait to share your testimony.” This is how I decided to treat my wife. Remember, conversion is the Holy Spirit’s work!

Shortly after getting engaged, the typical family issues began.

My wife’s grandma is extremely anti-Catholic. Not because of what the Church is, but because of what she *thinks *it is. My wife was raised by her grandma so this was a really big deal for all of us. Her grandma even threatened to not come to the wedding if it was in a Catholic church.

Now, in order to get married in the Catholic church, you have to agree to raise your kids Catholic. So we had two issues: 1) my wife wasn’t certain that she wanted her kids to be raised Catholic, and 2) my wife’s grandmother wasn’t willing to even enter a Catholic church.

Fortunately, we received some very wise advice from our priest: get a dispensation to get married in a Lutheran church!

So my wife and I made a compromise: I agreed to get married in her Lutheran church (via a dispensation) and she agreed to raise any future kids Catholic. We went through all the Catholic marriage prep, as well as the Lutheran marriage prep. I was surprised that the Catholic church allowed me to get married in a Lutheran church, but it was approved by three priests and two Bishops (one of which is now the Archbishop of New York!). The entire ceremony was performed by my wife’s pastor.

The wedding went great, everyone was happy.

Now once my wife agreed to raise our future kids Catholic, the tides shifted a little bit. She began to feel more of a *desire *to convert. In fact, we just completed RCIA classes last April.

RCIA was very difficult for us because it was so dry. My wife had several typical issues with some of the Catholic doctrines: Marian theology, praying with saints, purgatory, etc. I’m not sure if the RCIA classes actually helped clear up any of these issues, but we were at least forced dialogue with each other on these subjects every week.

And then my wife read, “Catholic and Christian” by Alan Schreck. This basically put an end to all of her doctrinal concerns about the Catholic church. To be honest, I still have not gotten a chance to read this book…

Unfortunately, even though my wife does not have doctrinal concerns anymore, she still has not converted due to family issues. Her grandma is currently struggling with depression and my wife just does not want to put her grandma through this right now. We are still praying for guidance on this last issue… and we would appreciate your prayers!

My recommendations for you are:

1. Focus on the 99% that you have in common! Read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
2. Pray together and read together every day.
3. Read “Rome Sweet Home” and if you like it, then read it together.
4. Enjoy the process of working your differences out, it’s perfect marriage prep!
5. When issues come up: talk about them. Do not ignore them or it will be more painful down the road.
6. Be open to conversion yourself. I know it’s hard but just trust the Holy Spirit.

God Bless,
Mike

PS: in reference to the concern, “If the Catholic church comes out with a doctrine that I don’t agree with then, I might not remain Catholic”: shouldn’t we all feel this way? I think you’re dating a good one, and you should fight to keep him!

 

[jwashu]

Wow… excellent post Mike!

I would also say how good Home Sweet Rome was… as I was almost a Presbyterian Minister this one really hit home (I was never as anti-Catholic as he was though).

I mentioned Currie in my post, the Book is Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic and it’s a really good read. My Baptist mother is still on the edge but I’m working on her to join next Easter!

Joe

 

[1ke]

PS: in reference to the concern, “If the Catholic church comes out with a doctrine that I don’t agree with then, I might not remain Catholic”: shouldn’t we all feel this way?

Um, no.

The Church is infallible. The Church cannot err. If the Church presents a doctrine that you do not agree with, you are in error not the Church.

 

[1ke]

Hi.

Except for the most recent post, I think that the advice you’ve been given so far is terrible! Marriage is all about working out differences, and it can be a beautiful thing to go through!

My wife and I were in almost the same situation. I was Catholic and she is (still) Lutheran. We’ve been married for almost 1 year and we’re getting close to the home stretch. My wife has recently expressed an interest in converting, but there are still some issues.

I think the terrible advice is to get married and deal with the religious differences later.

It worked out for you, maybe. Your wife is still Lutheran.

I think it’s imprudent to give advice to someone based on your experience. What if she follows it and her fiance decides he does not want to become Catholic and that she cannot become a Lutheran?

Bad, bad, bad idea.

 

[iluvmybabies]

Good day! Anything and everything can be worked out… My bf’s brother is CAtholic and got married to a non-Catholic…Not sure of her religion…They both got permissions from their churches and got married through a different church, neither Catholic nor I am going to assume Christian?! Not sure of her religion… They have decided that the children will be baptized through her religion but will visit both congregations and participate in both as much as possible because as they put it, “will give their children knowledge and better understanding of the word of GOD.” So that’s another good way of looking at things…

If you are having that much difficulties, then the best thing to do is let things go… But if you feel it in your heart you can both come to agreements and compromises then you guys will be able to work through anything!

Pray and let GOD guide you through this difficult time. Religion shouldn’t really be a problem in relationships now-a-days with all the other problems we all have to endure…

My brother married a Christian…She is converting to Cathelicism, not because he made her but because after attending mass and seeing how close the family is through our church and all she has decided it’s the best way to go…But again that was her choice…

Whatever it is you decide, remember, just pray and even pray with your fiance…
God bless and good luck!

 

[1ke]

Good day! Anything and everything can be worked out… My bf’s brother is CAtholic and got married to a non-Catholic…Not sure of her religion…They both got permissions from their churches and got married through a different church, neither Catholic nor I am going to assume Christian?! Not sure of her religion… They have decided that the children will be baptized through her religion but will visit both congregations and participate in both as much as possible because as they put it, “will give their children knowledge and better understanding of the word of GOD.” So that’s another good way of looking at things…

That’s not a Catholic way of looking at things. A Catholic explicitly promises to raise their children as Catholics. A Catholic cannot agree to baptize their child in “another” denomination. So, the example you have given is not one of “working it out” but rather an example of a Catholic foregoing all the obligations of a Catholic and allowing their child to be raised as a non-Catholic.

This is not an example of how it “works” this is an example of why it’s a bad idea to marry a non-Catholic.

If you are having that much difficulties, then the best thing to do is let things go… But if you feel it in your heart you can both come to agreements and compromises then you guys will be able to work through anything!

Either the Catholic faith is true or the other one is true. They aren’t both true. How can you compromise on the truth? You can’t. Not if you actually believe in truth.

Pray and let GOD guide you through this difficult time. Religion shouldn’t really be a problem in relationships now-a-days with all the other problems we all have to endure…

God is the most important thing there is. I think maybe you are letting your own personal troubles shadow over this very important issue.

 

[iluvmybabies]

That’s not a Catholic way of looking at things. A Catholic explicitly promises to raise their children as Catholics. A Catholic cannot agree to baptize their child in “another” denomination. So, the example you have given is not one of “working it out” but rather an example of a Catholic foregoing all the obligations of a Catholic and allowing their child to be raised as a non-Catholic.

This is not an example of how it “works” this is an example of why it’s a bad idea to marry a non-Catholic.

Either the Catholic faith is true or the other one is true. They aren’t both true. How can you compromise on the truth? You can’t. Not if you actually believe in truth.

God is the most important thing there is. I think maybe you are letting your own personal troubles shadow over this very important issue.

I don’t understand what the problem is? They both believe in GOD and both are faithful to GOD why does religion have to be a problem? I didn’t know Catholics were in competition with other religions? I am not understanding here…Of course GOD is important and she believes in GOD and so does her fiance…I don’t know where she said GOD wasn’t important? I think as long as they are both serving GOD why should there be a problem?

 

[Catholic90]

Um, no.

The Church is infallible. The Church cannot err. If the Church presents a doctrine that you do not agree with, you are in error not the Church.

Just to clarify, not every statement made by a Pope is an infallible statement…people within the Church certainly CAN err! Afterall, they are only human, and all humans err! Church doctrine is true doctrine, though. (some people reading this might get confused and think that every word that comes from the Pope is infallible, which is simply not true.)

 

[1ke]

Just to clarify, not every statement made by a Pope is an infallible statement…people within the Church certainly CAN err! Afterall, they are only human, and all humans err! Church doctrine is true doctrine, though. (some people reading this might get confused and think that every word that comes from the Pope is infallible, which is simply not true.)

The statement in question was referencing a doctrine of the Church, not merely a statement of the Pope.

I stated that *the Church *is infallible, which is true. And, that if the Church presents something as a doctrine, Catholics must assent to it, which is also true.

 

[1ke]

I don’t understand what the problem is?

You don’t see a problem with a Catholic ignoring their obligation to raise their children in the Catholic faith?

They both believe in GOD and both are faithful to GOD why does religion have to be a problem?

They both believe in God, but the do not believe the same things about God.

The two religions have conflicting doctrine. Which one is true? Which one is taught to the children? For a Catholic to raise their children in a non-Catholic ecclesial community requires that they deny one or more truths of the Catholic faith in order to do so.

Yes, that is problematic.

I didn’t know Catholics were in competition with other religions?

There is only one Truth. The Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth. It is not a competition, it is reality.

I am not understanding here…Of course GOD is important and she believes in GOD and so does her fiance…I don’t know where she said GOD wasn’t important? I think as long as they are both serving GOD why should there be a problem?

It is a problem because the Catholic is denying the Truth of the faith in order to make this marriage “work.”

 

[iluvmybabies]

You don’t see a problem with a Catholic ignoring their obligation to raise their children in the Catholic faith?

If that’s the way they choose to go, whom am I to judge? I could just advise and remind them to always pray and ask GOD for guidance…Of course I have not dated anyone whom is not Catholic, because the entire situation might be too overwhelming for me to handle especially since my children are Catholic…But even though things can be worked out…My sister-in-law decided to convert, from Christian to Catholic because she enjoyed what she learned by attending mass and interacting with other Catholics. Unfortunately for my bf’s brother he decided to accept his wife’s choice of raising their children through her religion…AND as difficult as that may seem, he’s willing to accept it and hasn’t stopped his beliefs nor stopped attending mass or following through Christ…And they are both attending both churches and learning from each other…They are working out well…They are still married and loving each other…It hasn’t caused them any problems…So I don’t know why it would be a problem? He hasn’t stopped his beliefs and she hasn’t either…They respect each other and do discuss somethings I have heard them before but not in disagreement but in acceptance of each other and in praising GOD…

They both believe in God, but the do not believe the same things about God.

The two religions have conflicting doctrine. Which one is true? Which one is taught to the children? For a Catholic to raise their children in a non-Catholic ecclesial community requires that they deny one or more truths of the Catholic faith in order to do so.

Yes, that is problematic.

Obviously they need to find a compromise and that’s what she is here asking for help because she’s not sure of how to do this… I am not sure but where does it state in the BIBLE you HAVE to raise your children in all Catholic faith if your are married to someone with a different religion? If it does say that then she and her fiance need to really speak about this in all seriousness and they should pray together to ask GOD for guidance because indeed this is a difficult choice…Love is strong enough to over come many things but GOD is even stronger and I am sure that He will guide them to make the right choice…

There is only one Truth. The Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth. It is not a competition, it is reality.

It is a problem because the Catholic is denying the Truth of the faith in order to make this marriage “work.”

 

[GraceDK]

I am Catholic and am dating someone that is a Lutheran. We have been dating for about 16 months. We’ve struggled from day one with our religious differences, and I knew it was going to be an issue down the road. Now that we are at the point where we feel like we would like to get married at some point in the near future and are right for each other. However, we know have to come to some sort of agreement on our religious differences. I know that some people stay their respective denominations and get married, but we feel like we need to be unified in our beliefs before marriage. Even if we decided that being different denominations was ok, I don’t feel it is fair to him to say we have to raise our children Catholic, when he believes so strongly in his Lutheran faith.

We will not be able to explore each others denominations by going to any classes at each others churches until July (due to living/job situations). He says that he would be willing to become Catholic if he can’t find any dogmas and doctrines that he disagrees with. However, he wants me to be open to becoming Lutheran just as he is being open to possibly becoming Catholic, but I am having a very hard time with this because I feel at home in the Catholic church. He has also stated that if he becomes Catholic, that if later down the road, the Catholic church comes out with a doctrine he does not believe is correct, that he should not be bound by this and so he would possibly have to rethink being Catholic.

I think it would be such a shame to have to end something this good when our denominations are so close in their respective beliefs. However, I don’t want to ruin the rest of my life by marrying someone that I can’t be in complete unity with. I am looking for any wisdom or advice anyone can provide. Thank you!

Then there is faith, and hope, and love… and greatest of these is LOVE.

You both believe in Jesus and love Him.
You have to face the fact that you might never share with anyone else the love you now share with each other. I think, that if you end this… you will regret it and you wont be able to stay away from each other.
Pray together… all that you can. Even you can go to Church together … you go with him and he goes with you… make Sunday a real day of prayer and worship.
When the children come then take them to both churches too.

Many of us go through life and never find someone that we fall in love with who falls in love with us… last guy I really liked was a agnostic Muslim… so I think your problems are rather small in the big picture.

If your bf is anticatholic like Luther was, then he probably wont agree to raising the children with Catholic Masses etc. (You must never agree to denying your children the Eucharist)… but I doubt he is totally against Catholicism if he is dating you.
He must understand that you cannot give up the things that you believe Jesus revealed to you to be true.
Share with each other… and pray together.
I shortly dated a lutheran guy… and honestly his spirituality was closer to mine than any Catholic guys I have ever met close up. Its kind of sad. I have come to think that spirituality and personality are just as important as doctrine…

Go get him and never let go … is what I say

Peace to you dear sister… and let us know whats going on alright… :hug1:

 

[GraceDK]

They both believe in God, but the do not believe the same things about God.

The two religions have conflicting doctrine. Which one is true?

Jesus is the Truth.
As for calling Lutheran Christianity “another religion” I would not do that. These are our brothers in Christ.
He is everything.
And I also disgree that they don’t believe the same things about God. Christ is the same for a Catholic and for a Lutheran… alright? I know that because I have been one and have friends and family that are Lutherans.
The Bible’s teachings are sufficient for salvation. Indeed someone who ponders that Word will never be finished pondering even if he got as old as Metusalem. In Scripture, God reveals His identity and love. This is what the serious Lutheran has in his focus… and if he focuses well he may have more love and wisdom for God through that one book than a Catholic who has a multitude of books…

Peace-