Lutheran considering converting to Catholicism...

[aspirant]

not to be argumentative but is not the meaning of included and and part of the same thing?

[linguistic interest mode]

The difference is that annointing of the sick is part of last rites; last rites is not part of anointing of the sick. All people who receive last rites receive anointing, not all people who receive anointing receive last rites.

Similarly, a wheel is a part of a car, but a car is not a part of a wheel.

[/linguistic interest mode]

 

[TheosisM]

not to be argumentative but is not the meaning of included and and part of the same thing?

Not in the sense that I am using either word.

-Last Rites includes Anointing of the Sick. To say that Last Rites is “part of” Anointing of the Sick means that it is a component of Anointing of the Sick. Anointing of the Sick is a component of Last Rites, not the other way around.

-To say that something “includes” something else implies that the first thing is “over” or is an “umbrella” under which the second thing falls under.

-Anointing of the Sick is a sacrament. Last Rites is 3 sacraments (Confession, Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick) given when someone is dying. Anointing of the Sick can be given anytime someone is sick, not just dying, and without Confession or Eucharist. It is therefore erroneous to say that Last Rites is part of Anointing of the Sick. Anointing of the Sick is part of Last Rites (and therefore Last Rites includes Anointing of the Sick), not vice versa.

 

[gcnuss]

Hi Eric,
Just a couple of comments from one cradle Lutheran to another. First, most confessional Lutherans (esoecially those of us who consider ourselves Evangelical Catholic) would agree with you that we agree with Catholic teachings about 95% of the time.
Now, I would encourage you to do 4 things:

1. Get a copy of the Book of Concord and the Catholic Catechism both for reference
2. Make sure you know what Lutheranism teaches. Read the confessions, and take classes.
3. Attend RCIA. Make sure you know and understand what Catholicism teaches.
4. Pray, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. And no matter what anyone says, follow His guidance.

Eric,

I’m also a lifelong Lutheran and a pastor. I’ll second Jon’s suggestions. Trust in the guidance of the Holy Spirit as you travel on your journey in faith and you can be sure that you will travel as the Father wills.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

God does not punish you for something that is not under your control.
.

yea only Calvinists believe that.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Well Spike it looks like you have some very good (name removed by moderator)ut from both Catholics and Protestants. I dont have much to add except that I agree you should do a lot of reading, praying, and speak with your mom and her pastor about what you find. If it is truly your desire to seek the truth and serve the Lord I think they will come to respect that. If you do become a Catholic, be the best Catholic you can be and maybe your mom will be lead to join you, Or if you spend a good deal of time learning you may just end up a better Lutheran. God bless you on your journey.

 

[Darron_Steele]

Well, hey guys…

As my title implies, I’m a Lutheran…apparently theres beef between Lutherans and Catholics (this is at least what I hear and read…)…so please, erm, don’t hurt me. I was considering converting to Catholicism, and I have loads of questions, so if I could get some answers I’d be very appreciative. Sorry if some if it dosent make sense…i’m just scared and confused…

Anywho, I was born a Lutheran. Than one night after football I ran into a Catholic buddy of mine, and we discussed, well, Catholicism. The one part that really got to me was “When Jesus made the Church, he didn’t say run off and create your own if you dont agree with what is taught.” This made sense, so I did some more research, borrowing a copy of the Catheism of the Catholic Church from a friend and Catholicism for Idiots from the library. I found that I agreed with 95% of the Catholic teachings, and thought, well, maybe I needed to convert. However, i’m confused on a few things.
…

Before you decide to go convert, I want you to be sure you are doing so for the right reasons.

I can tell you are young and have not learned to look for underlying assumptions of assertions made. Your Catholic buddy assumes
a) that the Catholic church group is what was established by Jesus Christ, and
b) we have the ability to start separate churches.
If you grant these assumptions, your buddy’s assertion makes sense. If you question the validity of these assumptions, the assertion that depends on them lacks foundation.

I reject both assertions.

Did you know that when the split of 1054 occured, it was initiated from Rome’s end? That means that the Roman Catholic church split from the rest of the church.

Did you know that apart from legend, there is no evidence that Peter was bishop of Rome, nor that he appointed any successor? It is unlikely that the bishop of Rome is Peter’s successor, let alone is in any position to speak for him.

Read Matthew 16 again. You will find out that Jesus Christ says “I will build My church” (NBV) – not You will build my church' or We will build our church’ or whatever. There is one church, and He will decide who is in it – not us.

The Greek word translated “church” was used similarly about the community of Pythagoras’s followers. The Lord’s church is the community of Jesus Christ’s followers. Here is an example of how Jesus Christ was building His church: Acts 2:47 “daily the Lord added to the group those who were being saved” (ASV). There is only one church, and the Lord adds to it every new disciple of Him.

Followers of Jesus Christ have over time liked to act as if we really can make separate churches from other Christians – but we have no such capability. We are all in one church.

Am I discouraging you from converting to Catholicism? No. If you want to become Catholic, you will get no objection from me. Still, it looks like a scare tactic has been used, and I do not want you converting due to a bogus scare tactic. Convert if you want to, and solely because you want to.

 

[vinod_vt]

Dear Eric,

It’s first important to know the context and the period during which Martin Luther started the reformation. There were quite a lot of abuses present in the Catholic Church during that time (like sale of indulgences for example). Majority of the clergy were ignorant of the scriptures and Luther noticed that the common man was not only ignorant but were deliberately denied access to the scriptures. The church in general had fallen away and had completely lost site of what Jesus and the apostles had instituted!

Thus began the reformation which laid the foundations of Protestant and Lutheran churches (which would eventually give birth to the church that would go back full circle to the original true church that Jesus intended). Later on the Catholic Church under Ignatius of Loyola started a counter-reformation and removed a lot of abuses that existed and did a lot of clean-up within the Catholic Church and he was successful to a certain extent.

Now, just like Catholics recognize their heritage, I guess as a Lutheran you too should recognize the value of your Lutheran heritage! When the reformation began, the Catholic Church was still passing through the ‘Dark Ages’. It had totalitarian control and was running the state in most places. They were thus able to apply brute force and suppress the reformers and the heretics alike; by not only executing them but by torturing them in the most in-humane, barbaric and unspeakable ways (like burning at the stake or breaking at the wheel for example). This horror of the church during the dark ages was called the Inquisition!

Now when you consider going back to the Catholic Church, have you ever thought about the pain and agony that these brave men and women went through to bring the word of God to the common man instead of just the clergy? Have thought about the blood shed by these reformers? They risked being called heretics or witches and risked being dragged to the inquisitors who would ultimately have them tortured and/or killed. I would not go into the details of the torture and execution methods. I don’t think you would have the stomach for the brutal details but you can probably search on ‘Medieval Torture and Execution’ and ‘The inquisition’ on the Internet. It’s hard to believe that the church or for that matter any religious organization would stoop down to such an evil and demonic level.

Having said all of the above, the saying goes that, “Luther may have come out of Catholicism but Catholicism did not come out of Luther! In other words, it was a good start but still a far cry from the original church that Jesus instituted! Therefore I urge you Eric to not to look down to a lower level and go backwards but look up to a higher level and go upwards! Grow up because its God’s perfect will for each believer to grow in him.

The church that Jesus instituted was the one-true, born-again, bible-based, bible-believing, Christ-exalting, non-denominational-church! Denominations were created by man, traditions were created by man, dogmas and false doctrines were created by man. But the true church of Jesus is always based purely on scriptures! Remember that Christianity is not a religion or a set of beliefs. It is a truth; it is a relationship! Please look for churches like these in your area and start attending them today. And always remember that God has a unique plan and purpose for you and your family!

Please see the following links which might help you to understand a lot of what you have read above:

Bible History:

1. jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_from_catholics.htm
2. watch.pair.com/another.html
   Apocrypha Books:
3. jesus-is-lord.com/apocryph.htm
4. watch.pair.com/apocrypha.html
   Church History:
5. home.att.net/~jackthompson/page173.htm
   Doctrines:
6. africanaquatics.co.za/_christian/_articles/critical_importance_of_scripture.htm
7. biblebelievers.com/misc_periodical_articles/mrw_001.html
8. in-understanding.org/points_to_ponder/index.php
9. whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk.htm
10. gospelway.com/religiousgroups/catholicism.php
11. biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html
12. contenderministries.org/catholicism.php#
13. justforcatholics.org/a66.htm

Now I can see that you have got some good and worthy answers but some answers are pointing you to completely an opposite direction! I hope my little note and the links that I provided will help you decide on the right church that you need to be a part of.

In other words, it does not matter which church or religion you are born into. What matters is, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Is he the lord of your life? Do believe that he is your savior the son of the living God who saved you from eternal damnation by redeeming you with his own holy and sinless blood? Do you place your faith and trust in him alone? And lastly do you behave like your faith is in him in every aspect of your life? Of course it is very important to start going into churches that believe this truth lest you get distracted and misguided and lost for ever!

There is nothing to be scared of. Tomorrow, if after another football match, you run into a Muslim who tells you that Christianity predates Islam and Islam is the final word revealed through prophet Mohammed, then would you consider becoming a Muslim?

Your roots should be planted in the word of God. No matter who tells what, you should stand rock-steady in the word of God. Yes Lutherans are right in saying that the word of God is the final authority. When in doubt, go back and see what the word says and make a commitment to stand by the word no matter what people say or what you family says. The lord is looking for people like that and if you stand by his word he will surely find you show you the right place here on earth and in his fathers kingdom!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Not in the sense that I am using either word.

-Last Rites includes Anointing of the Sick. To say that Last Rites is “part of” Anointing of the Sick means that it is a component of Anointing of the Sick. Anointing of the Sick is a component of Last Rites, not the other way around.

-To say that something “includes” something else implies that the first thing is “over” or is an “umbrella” under which the second thing falls under.

-Anointing of the Sick is a sacrament. Last Rites is 3 sacraments (Confession, Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick) given when someone is dying. Anointing of the Sick can be given anytime someone is sick, not just dying, and without Confession or Eucharist. It is therefore erroneous to say that Last Rites is part of Anointing of the Sick. Anointing of the Sick is part of Last Rites (and therefore Last Rites includes Anointing of the Sick), not vice versa.

To be ccompletly correct the Sacrament is correct Titled The Annointing of the Sick. There is not a Sacrament Called Last Rites therefore. Last Rites is inculded in the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick. Or is part of the Sacrement.

The Seven Catholic Sacraments
Baptism
Eucharist
Reconciliation
Confirmation
Marriage
Holy Orders
Anointing of the Sick

americancatholic.org/Features/Sacraments/default.asp

As you can see Last Rites is not listed therefore it must be part of or included in one of the ones listed.
I really think that we are arguing symantics here and that is not what the OP was looking for.
A person can recieve the Sacrament of the Annointing of the Sick at any time of any illness. If that person is on deaths door he/she may also wish, if able to, to make a confession and receive the Eucharist as part of the Sacment of the Annointing. There by includeint or makeing them part of.

To answer the OP question a person is not doomed to Hell if they do not or did not receive the Sacrament.

 

[po18guy]

@ po18guy and Rolltide: Thanks for clarifying my statements! While it is absolutely true that the vast majority of what Catholics believe ultimately stems from the Bible one way or the other (several of my Protestant friends would disagree with me there…), it takes a while to digest all the beliefs, if that makes sense. Having been raised in a Protestant household my entire life, it has been hard to be able to understand the Catholic point of view on some issues. But I’m getting there. So there certainly won’t be any serious side-effects from Spike converting to Catholicism in my opinion; I just want to ensure that the transition is smooth and his personal relationship with God is not hindered.

You already show a quite substantial understanding of Catholicism. Our job is to get all Catholics to the point of understanding which you possess! The best advice that a Catholic can give to others is to always seek the truth. Your user name reveals an excellent disposition toward the truth.

 

[po18guy]

The church that Jesus instituted was the one-true, born-again, bible-based, bible-believing, Christ-exalting, non-denominational-church!

As well-intentioned as you are, as much as you love Christ, your post is so chock full of falsehoods, innuendo and revisionist history that you are only going to confuse Eric. As a consequence, God’s truth suffers and you risk bearing false witness against Christian brothers.

Example: In only one sentence, you mention Jesus once and the bible twice. There was no “bible” (as we know it today) for several hundred years after Christ until the New Testament canon was closed. Please do a little more research.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Dear Eric,

It’s first important to know the context and the period during which Martin Luther started the reformation. There were quite a lot of abuses present in the Catholic Church during that time (like sale of indulgences for example). Majority of the clergy were ignorant of the scriptures and Luther noticed that the common man was not only ignorant but were deliberately denied access to the scriptures. The church in general had fallen away and had completely lost site of what Jesus and the apostles had instituted!

Thus began the reformation which laid the foundations of Protestant and Lutheran churches (which would eventually give birth to the church that would go back full circle to the original true church that Jesus intended). Later on the Catholic Church under Ignatius of Loyola started a counter-reformation and removed a lot of abuses that existed and did a lot of clean-up within the Catholic Church and he was successful to a certain extent.

Bible History:

1. jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_from_catholics.htm
2. watch.pair.com/another.html
   Apocrypha Books:
3. jesus-is-lord.com/apocryph.htm
4. watch.pair.com/apocrypha.html
   Church History:
5. home.att.net/~jackthompson/page173.htm
   Doctrines:
6. africanaquatics.co.za/_christian/_articles/critical_importance_of_scripture.htm
7. biblebelievers.com/misc_periodical_articles/mrw_001.html
8. in-understanding.org/points_to_ponder/index.php
9. whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk.htm
10. gospelway.com/religiousgroups/catholicism.php
11. biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html
12. contenderministries.org/catholicism.php#
13. justforcatholics.org/a66.htm

Now I can see that you have got some good and worthy answers but some answers are pointing you to completely an opposite direction! I hope my little note and the links that I provided will help you decide on the right church that you need to be a part of.

In other words, it does not matter which church or religion you are born into. What matters is, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Is he the lord of your life? Do believe that he is your savior the son of the living God who saved you from eternal damnation by redeeming you with his own holy and sinless blood? Do you place your faith and trust in him alone? And lastly do you behave like your faith is in him in every aspect of your life? Of course it is very important to start going into churches that believe this truth lest you get distracted and misguided and lost for ever!

There is nothing to be scared of. Tomorrow, if after another football match, you run into a Muslim who tells you that Christianity predates Islam and Islam is the final word revealed through prophet Mohammed, then would you consider becoming a Muslim?

Your roots should be planted in the word of God. No matter who tells what, you should stand rock-steady in the word of God. Yes Lutherans are right in saying that the word of God is the final authority. When in doubt, go back and see what the word says and make a commitment to stand by the word no matter what people say or what you family says. The lord is looking for people like that and if you stand by his word he will surely find you show you the right place here on earth and in his fathers kingdom!

One thing that I found interesting among your links is the suggestion that there was a great apostasy in the early Church, much like Mormons today claim.

The thing is, though, even among that same page, I’ve found absolutely nothing that proves that it did. Indeed, it mentions the persecution of the likes of Polycarp and Ignatius, both of which seem to confirm standard doctrines of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, such as the real presence in Holy Communion.

Even at looking at some of the verses used justify that position, for instance in Acts, it seemed to be a specific warning to the city of Ephesus, which was confirmed by Jesus Christ’s condemnation of its church in the Book of Revelation.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

(Edited)

One thing Ive noticed as current events become recent history, history is revised on the day its made by those lucky enough to survive. when we look at the claims made by both sides we can see that this was not a good time for the church of Christ… much blood was spilled by both Catholic and protestant alike. the Bible was compiled long before these things happened at a time when issues of doctrinal disputes were voted on in counsels. not dictated from Rome and the looser went home alive. That said the RCC is did go through a counter reformation and has repented of things done in Christs name that should not have been done. There are several Catholic doctrines that I personally dont agree with (they dont seem to all agree whether you must believe them all to be a good Catholic:shrug but I am coming to the conclusion the she is a fine body of believers and does many good works for the cause of Christ.

 

[JonNC]

Now, just like Catholics recognize their heritage, I guess as a Lutheran you too should recognize the value of your Lutheran heritage! When the reformation began, the Catholic Church was still passing through the ‘Dark Ages’. It had totalitarian control and was running the state in most places. They were thus able to apply brute force and suppress the reformers and the heretics alike; by not only executing them but by torturing them in the most in-humane, barbaric and unspeakable ways (like burning at the stake or breaking at the wheel for example). This horror of the church during the dark ages was called the Inquisition!

Now when you consider going back to the Catholic Church, have you ever thought about the pain and agony that these brave men and women went through to bring the word of God to the common man instead of just the clergy? Have thought about the blood shed by these reformers? They risked being called heretics or witches and risked being dragged to the inquisitors who would ultimately have them tortured and/or killed. I would not go into the details of the torture and execution methods. I don’t think you would have the stomach for the brutal details but you can probably search on ‘Medieval Torture and Execution’ and ‘The inquisition’ on the Internet. It’s hard to believe that the church or for that matter any religious organization would stoop down to such an evil and demonic level.

Having said all of the above, the saying goes that, “Luther may have come out of Catholicism but Catholicism did not come out of Luther! In other words, it was a good start but still a far cry from the original church that Jesus instituted! Therefore I urge you Eric to not to look down to a lower level and go backwards but look up to a higher level and go upwards! Grow up because its God’s perfect will for each believer to grow in him.

The church that Jesus instituted was the one-true, born-again, bible-based, bible-believing, Christ-exalting, non-denominational-church! Denominations were created by man, traditions were created by man, dogmas and false doctrines were created by man. But the true church of Jesus is always based purely on scriptures! Remember that Christianity is not a religion or a set of beliefs. It is a truth; it is a relationship! Please look for churches like these in your area and start attending them today. And always remember that God has a unique plan and purpose for you and your family!

Please see the following links which might help you to understand a lot of what you have read above:

Bible History:
1) jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_from_catholics.htm
2) watch.pair.com/another.html
Apocrypha Books:
3) jesus-is-lord.com/apocryph.htm
4) watch.pair.com/apocrypha.html
Church History:
5) home.att.net/~jackthompson/page173.htm
Doctrines:
6) africanaquatics.co.za/_christian/_articles/critical_importance_of_scripture.htm
7) biblebelievers.com/misc_periodical_articles/mrw_001.html
8) in-understanding.org/points_to_ponder/index.php
9) whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk.htm
11) gospelway.com/religiousgroups/catholicism.php
12) biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html
15) contenderministries.org/catholicism.php#
16) justforcatholics.org/a66.htm

Now I can see that you have got some good and worthy answers but some answers are pointing you to completely an opposite direction! I hope my little note and the links that I provided will help you decide on the right church that you need to be a part of.

In other words, it does not matter which church or religion you are born into. What matters is, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Is he the lord of your life? Do believe that he is your savior the son of the living God who saved you from eternal damnation by redeeming you with his own holy and sinless blood? Do you place your faith and trust in him alone? And lastly do you behave like your faith is in him in every aspect of your life? Of course it is very important to start going into churches that believe this truth lest you get distracted and misguided and lost for ever!

There is nothing to be scared of. Tomorrow, if after another football match, you run into a Muslim who tells you that Christianity predates Islam and Islam is the final word revealed through prophet Mohammed, then would you consider becoming a Muslim?

Your roots should be planted in the word of God. No matter who tells what, you should stand rock-steady in the word of God. Yes Lutherans are right in saying that the word of God is the final authority. When in doubt, go back and see what the word says and make a commitment to stand by the word no matter what people say or what you family says. The lord is looking for people like that and if you stand by his word he will surely find you show you the right place here on earth and in his fathers kingdom!

I truncated your post due to the 6000 character space limit.

I read with interest your post until I got to the quote I highlighted above. Knowing where that line came from, I was not surprised to see your first link. It is a hate site, and that fact that you recommend it, at least for me, erases any credibility your post has. David Stewart misrepresents Lutheranism and Catholicism. If you want to know more about what Lutherans and Catholics truly teach, I would encourage you to find better websites.

Jon

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

From a Catholic who converted to Lutheranism…

1. Don’t get lost in all the HUGENESS of Catholicism; there is a micro aspect to it that can overwhelm and get people lost in the details.
2. Study, think, pray - carefully - about the Theology of the Cross (Lutheran) vis-a-vis the Theology of Glory (Catholic).
3. Consider the issue of accountability (Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia Roma)
4. Consider the issue of ecclesiology, and whether Christianity is the communion of saints, the mystical union of believers - US or whether it is a singular, individual, geopolitical institutional denomination? I realize (well) Catholicism plays both ends here (especially since Vatican 2) but a careful reading of the Catechism reveals it all comes down to IT (CCC 85, 87 for starters). My sensitivity to this issue actually came via my interest in the Greek Orthodox Church - they’ve had this struggle with Catholicism LONG before Luther did.

I studied Catholicism VERY carefully. For example, I very, very carefully read all 2,875 points, all 800 pages of the official Catechism - and looked up EVERY SINGLE biblical reference down there in the tiny print of the footnotes. MUCH of it is very sound and solidly biblical - but those are the things Lutherans and Orthodox AGREE with. When we focus on the things that make The Catholic Church, The Catholic Church - those distictives, THAT’S where it gets very interesting! The INFALLIBILITY of the Bishop in Rome, purgatory, transubstantiation, etc. THOSE are the issues to focus on. Do these things have sound biblical confirmation? Do they have sound confirmation from ecumenical tradition? Are they necessary as dogmas? Before I left, I had a private, very good meeting with my priest. I told him of my training (which he pretty much knew about) and that I agreed with The Catholic Church probably 95% of the time. He laughed and said (and I think this is probably a verbatim quote), “That’s a whole lot better than most Catholics; it’s probably better than a lot of priests!” He was right about the first (I don’t know about the second). But read CCC 87. A Catholic is, by the insistence of The Catholic Church, one who accepts WHATEVER that denomination says “WITH DOCILITY.” I couldn’t say that I did. Thus, integrity, honestly, demanded that I not be Catholic. Read on…

There was much - MUCH - I loved about The Catholic Church. Not ONLY did I agree with it more than most Catholics (maybe even more than a lot of priests) but I loved the liturgy, the Sacraments, the spirituality, the pro-life stance, the very pro-family emphasis. Much more, too! BUT, I was always troubled by the VERY THINGS that make Catholicism distinctive and what it is. And what I felt strongly was a lot of focus on self, on individualism on unaccountability. My strong sense of humility, community, accountability made my life as a Catholic very hard. And while I didn’t know it at the time, I firmly embraced the Theology of the Cross - and that caused the “spirit” of Catholicism to always be problematic.

I eventually ended up in Lutheranism. I found the 95% of all those teachings that I embraced and that were biblical and traditional. I found the liturgy, the Sacraments, the pro-life/pro-family emphasis. But I also found humility, community, accountability. A simplicity and an embrace of mystery. The Theology of the Cross.

Blessings on your journey.

Pax

• Josiah

.

 

[thirdn6]

He-he-he. I guess the guy got even more confused…

Stick with the title of your thread for your sake!!!

Peace but Truth is more important.

 

[jake23]

It would take one a while to explain all your questions more than likely, which is good! I am glad to see someone interested in the truth. Going to RCIA you will be taught what the catholic church believes and then it is left to you to accept it or not. I who was once protestant went to Liberty University to become a pastor and came out catholic instead. If you educate yourself on actual history along with the original texts of the Bible, you will find protestant belief to be incorrect. It was hard and shocking form me who was once anti catholic to come to this truth. Ignore opinions and opinionated books and read actual books of historic documents and you will come to the same truth, which is that the Catholic church is the holy church and everything else is simply counterfeit. Also note that the catholic church did exist before scripture and it was the catholic church that put the Bible together. You will find if you educate yourself in greek, latin that protestant interpretation is off and they have translated and interpreted to fit there agendas.

I will answer a question in reference to idols and saints. We ask Mary and the other saints to pray for us the same as you would ask youre pastor or a friend to pray for you. When ones body dies there soul lives on and is just as real as one in flesh. We do not worship idols just as you do not worship the cross in your church and so forth. Good luck!

 

[po18guy]

Did you know that when the split of 1054 occured, it was initiated from Rome’s end? That means that the Roman Catholic church split from the rest of the church.

Whoa there! The East rejected the authority of the See of Peter, forcing Rome to take action. Methinks you have it backward. If what you say is true, why aren’t you Orthodox then???

Did you know that apart from legend, there is no evidence that Peter was bishop of Rome, nor that he appointed any successor? It is unlikely that the bishop of Rome is Peter’s successor, let alone is in any position to speak for him.

“Legend”? Aren’t you dismissing the Apostolic Tradition rather lightly? According to your use of the word, the Gospels of Mark and Luke, as well as the book of Acts are “legends”, since neither author was an eyewitness and wrote only that which was told to them. Please investigate where both Pater and Paul are buried.

Read Matthew 16 again. You will find out that Jesus Christ says “I will build My church” (NBV) – not You will build my church' or We will build our church’ or whatever. There is one church, and He will decide who is in it – not us.

Actually, Jesus invites all to become members of His Body. However, we must “deny self and take up the cross daily”. And, there’s the rub. Few will deny themselves or take up their cross. Matthew 16:18 (King James Version) “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

Christ is the builder, but he must use materials - and His choice of materials was the Apostles. His choice of Apostles was Simon, whom He renamed Peter. Why did Christ tell Peter alone to “strengthen your brothers”??? (Luke 22:32)

Why did Christ give the Apostles power over sin and “whatever” they wished to hold bound or loosed? (Matthew 16:!9, 18:18) Were they not to use it in continuing to build the Church?

Followers of Jesus Christ have over time liked to act as if we really can make separate churches from other Christians – but we have no such capability. We are all in one church.

Christ prayed that we be one, as He and the Father are One. Paul taught that we are not to have “factions”. One Church alone holds the last remaining hope for Christian unity on earth.

Am I discouraging you from converting to Catholicism? No. If you want to become Catholic, you will get no objection from me. Still, it looks like a scare tactic has been used, and I do not want you converting due to a bogus scare tactic. Convert if you want to, and solely because you want to.

If Eric were considering conversion to Methodism, I dare say that he would receive none of these hesitant, cautionary, sideways glances from fellow Christians. He would hear variations of “whatever floats your boat.” But, simply mention the word “Catholic” (the Anglicized form of the Greek root word Katholikos - universal) and flags are immediately thrown on the play.

 

[thirdn6]

Eric bro,

Look. You don’t really need a sackful of mixed books on your back in order to convert. Consider the conversion of St. Paul (he was taught after his conversion in Damascus by the Church), the conversion of the centurion and his family, the conversion of about 3,000 people on the day of Pentecost, and of course, many more who converted with very little knowledge about the CC.

I know the first hurdle is believing that just becoming a member of any Christian denomination is enough to get you saved. There… you get stuck!:nope:

Think. Would you be a fruit of a fallen fruit OR a fruit of the tree where the fallen fruit came from?

Conversion is from the heart and the hunger for Jesus’ offer of life through His body and blood in the Eucharist.

The Holy Spirit lives in our hearts, examine yours and ask for mercy and grace…

Peace but Truth is more important.

 

[marianicons]

Eric, I am instructor in RCIA and we have had our share of Lutherans join us. We won’t hurt you. I think I can give an intelligent response to most of your questions. But first, I congratulate you on your courage to step out of your element and look for more.

1. Does “No Salvation Outside the Church” imply that as a Lutheran im dammed? If I convert, will my family not be with me when I die? Im really worried about this one. I put the Lord above all, but I still dont want to be seperated from my family. Faced with the decision, I ofcourse choose the Lord, but will my family be damned? Im either getting A) Conflicting answers or B) I dont understand articles i’ve been linked.

“No Salvation Outside the Church” means that the Church is the Body of Christ and it is the Body of Christ through which salvation came to all. It does not mean that anyone who is not Catholic is not saved. It means that the Church is the fountain out of which the graces of salvation flow.
You can live a thousand miles from on ocean but still benefit from the water in the atmosphere that comes from that ocean.
When Our Lord was born the angels announced that is was glad tidings for all men of good will. Not a word about just one group, not even Jews only.

1. The Saints…do you pray to them or what? My Catholic friend told me you asked them to meditate for you…right?

We do pray to the saints but I would not use the word “mediate”. What we do is ask them to intercede for us. It is like having a sibling that is in good with your parents when you get in trouble or need something you ask that sibling to go talk to your parents for you. That is very simplified but it is something like that. We believe in the communion of saints, which means we can communicate with those who have gone before us through prayer and ask for their help.

1. How long would it take me to Convert? Can someone outline the process?
   I take it that you want to know how long you would have to study to become Catholic as it would seem that you are already converted. I take convert to mean a change in our heart and it appears to me that your heart has already turn toward the Catholic church.
   The process varies in length depending where you live. In our Diocese our RCIA program goes from September to Easter.
   You will receive instruction in various aspects of the Church, including but not limited to: Church history, Mary, the sacraments, the Mass, the social teachings of the Church,
   You will also participate in a number “rites”, that is rituals, that will bring you gradually into full communion with the Church. There a rite of acceptance when the church community says in a formal way “Yes, we want you to join us.” That is implied from the moment you ask but by taking it before the whole community it solidify your choice and calls forth their participation in helping you in that journey.
   There are the scrutinies. During each of the last three Sundays of Lent the Church calls the candidate for admission to the church to take a closer look at their commitment and, at the same time asks the congregation to examine itself to see if they are being good models and ask them to make a deeper commitment to Christ and the Church.
   At some point during that time you would be invited to celebrate the sacrament of reconciliation in preparation for receiving the Easter sacraments of Confirmation and the Eucharist. And please have no fear of reconciliation. It may well be the most beautiful spiritual experience of your life to this date.
   Then the candidate is accepted into full communion with the church at the Easter Vigil service. Since you have already been baptized in the Lutheran Church, and that baptism is recognized by the Catholic Church you would be Confirmed then and receive your first Holy Communion. To me that is highlight of being Catholic. To even on a daily basis be able to receive Our Lord, Jesus Christ, body, blood, soul and divinity in the elements of bread and wine. No other religion can offer you that certainty.
2. Lutherans believe the Bible is the soul authority on Earth. Is it similar for Catholics?

The Catholic Church accepts two sources of authority, Scripture and Tradition. Tradition does not mean just setting up a Christmas tree for Dec.5. It means the teachings that have been handed down by the fathers of the Church and the Church in her councils.

1. I understand the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church, but why is he important? If you get what i’m trying to say…

The Pope is the direct successor of St. Peter. We have a proven and unbroken chain (It got a little tangled a couple of times but still unbroken) of heirs to the chair of Peter. Christ himself set up Peter as the “Rock” on which the Church was to be built.

1. One of my Catholic Friends has a St. Michael medalion. Something about being confirmed as his Patron Saint? Whats this all about? I know he apparently watches over soldiers, police officers, fire/emt…etc. But why does he have a medalion?

The medal or medalion is used as a reminder, much like a locket with the picture of a loved one would be if we were to wear one. There are many, most patron saints, Our Lady particularly, and crosses are all sacramentals, which means they are little signs of our devotion to that person or that aspect of our faith.

1. I want to be an Army MP, and then go into Law Enforcement, preferably start as a patrol officer, move to SWAT, and then possibly go for a Federal 1811 position with the Marshals, FBI, or DEA, or be a trooper. Point being, I understand before death Catholics are read their “Last Rights”. What if I’m shot on duty and die before they could be read. Would I go to hell?

The “Last Rites” is a term used for the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick and Viaticum (Holy Communion given to a person who is dying…it basically means food for the journey). It is not a reading so much as a signing of the cross in oil as a sign of Christ’s Healing presence. If he does not also heal the body we believe he heals the soul and prepares it to enter into His glory. If you are a regular communicant and do you best to follow the Lord you have no fear of dying without these "rites’, i.e. sacraments. There is no magic in them. They are special and wonderful graced opportunities but if they are not present at the time of death it does not mean you cannot go directly to heaven.

1. Can somebody explain Purgatory?
   I think of Purgatory as spiritual graduate school. I see it as a time and place of purification and preparation for entering into the presence of God. Few of us are ready to handle walking into heaven’s glory in a giant leap from earth. Most of us still have some small or large sinful areas of our life that need to get straightened out, not bad enough to send us to hell but still an impediment for entering into heaven.
2. What are your stances on tattoos? I wanted to get two christian realted ones, if it makes a difference. One of our Lord, of course, and the other, well, if I converted, of St. Michael…

My son has several. Fortunately he keeps them covered most of the time. But, bottom line, unless they are really morally offensive, there is nothing wrong with having a tattoo.

1. My mom is 100% hostile of me considering to convert. So…it looks like I wont be attending mass until college in a year and a half if I do convert…what if I die before then? Will Jesus understand my intentions? Or is it do or die? Would mass on TV work for now?

The Lord reads the heart. The Church acknowledges three types of Baptism. The baptism with water that you are familiar with, the baptism of blood when a person dies for their profession of faith before they have received the baptism of water and then there is baptism of desire. Since you have already received the baptism of water the Lord is already in your soul in a very special way. He will be patient and be open and accepting of you when you are free to come in the Church. His love for you is complete and I know He is joyfully awaiting the day when you will be free to be at Mass. In the meanwhile watching Mass on TV is a very good way to enter into the prayer life of the Catholic Church and will help you understand the Liturgy.

Gernerally, can someone point me in the right direction here? I’m so confused…after praying about it, the next day it hit me square in the face…go ask Christian Forums. So, here I am. I just want to do the right thing and make our Lord happy…and if that means converting, so be it. I’m just so confused on what to do…

As soon as you are free to follow your own choice on this go to a local Catholic Church and ask to talk to the pastor or the person in charge of RCIA. They will be happy to get you started on the process.

–
Eric