B
blessedrosary
Guest
Since Lutherans don’'t have appostalic succesion, as Catholics, should we believe that their communion is Jesus Christ just the same as ours?
- Status
M
MusicMan
Guest
Does it really matter what we think? Should we be more respectful of what THEY think?
B
blessedrosary
Guest
Actually, yes it does matter. If I see the Blessed Sacrament, I should have the utmost reverence. If i dont believe that it is truly Jesus Christ, then i shouldn’t treat it like it is. Otherwise, that would be idoltry. So, it has nothing to do with respect of there beliefs; More so for the benefit and knowledge of mine.
M
MusicMan
Guest
We don’t believe it is. They believe it is. It’s rude for us to be ruling other religion’s sacraments invalid.
If you read the Missal, you’ll find that we don’t admit non-Catholic Christians to Communion because it implies a oneness that does not yet exist. We’ll achieve that oneness a lot faster if we’d be more respectful of our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters instead of being so judgemental.
C
cazayoux
Guest
You are both right.
Yes, we should be very generous in how we treat others, especially our separated bretheren.
However, not at expense of truth.
The Eucharist is Christ’s communion with His church.
The Lutheran Church is not in communion with the Catholic Church.
As a Catholic, you cannot be in communion with the Lutheran Church. To do so would keep you from being Catholic.
michel
Yes, we should be very generous in how we treat others, especially our separated bretheren.
However, not at expense of truth.
The Eucharist is Christ’s communion with His church.
The Lutheran Church is not in communion with the Catholic Church.
As a Catholic, you cannot be in communion with the Lutheran Church. To do so would keep you from being Catholic.
michel
T
TinaK
Guest
You shouldn’t believe it even if we Lutherans had apostolic succesion. The Lutherans believe in the Real Presence, but as consubstatiation. The Catholic term is transubstantiation.
I would hope that anyone visiting my church would be respectful, but as many of the people who are members at my church aren’t respectful I can’t really expect it of anyone. I remember when our pastor’s son was dating a catholic she would come to church with him and he would go with her. I remember watching her genuflect (which drew some hostile stares from a few people, there’s always a few who don’t get it) and thinking, “wow, at least she knows God is present.” (They did get married, and pastor’s son became Catholic.) Point is, she genuflected whether or not there was communion. She gave a witness that many could have learned from (and I did.) So you never know when you might have an influence on someone
M
MusicMan
Guest
As my username would indicate, music is something of great importance in my life. I am currently a public school band instructor, and I continue to be involved with music at my parish.
Growing up, I was one of a few people in my community with skills and training to play the pipe organ. I had the rare privlige of being quite well employed by the various Christian churches in my town for Sunday services. It would not be unusual for me to play at a Catholic vigil Mass, an ELCA Sunday service, an UCC Sunday service, and a Catholic morning Mass. When I was confirmed my bishop even commented that he thought I put in more hours on the weekends in service of God’s people than some of his priests did.
In many of those churches, I could clearly feel the presence of God, present during worship, regardless of denomination. Even though I don’t get called as much today, when I play, I can tell when God is present druing worship and when He’s not.
Based on these experiences, I have concluded that God doesn’t care if the Catholic Church says a denomination has apostolic succession or valid orders for Him to be present during worship.
Regardless of which Protestant denomination I am called to play for, when I enter the building, I bow towards the altar, just like we’re supposed to do in a Catholic church that doesn’t have the Eucharist reserved in the Sanctuary (it’s either in a separate chapel or the tabernacle is empty). It’s a sign of respect for the presence of God.
Growing up, I was one of a few people in my community with skills and training to play the pipe organ. I had the rare privlige of being quite well employed by the various Christian churches in my town for Sunday services. It would not be unusual for me to play at a Catholic vigil Mass, an ELCA Sunday service, an UCC Sunday service, and a Catholic morning Mass. When I was confirmed my bishop even commented that he thought I put in more hours on the weekends in service of God’s people than some of his priests did.
In many of those churches, I could clearly feel the presence of God, present during worship, regardless of denomination. Even though I don’t get called as much today, when I play, I can tell when God is present druing worship and when He’s not.
Based on these experiences, I have concluded that God doesn’t care if the Catholic Church says a denomination has apostolic succession or valid orders for Him to be present during worship.
Regardless of which Protestant denomination I am called to play for, when I enter the building, I bow towards the altar, just like we’re supposed to do in a Catholic church that doesn’t have the Eucharist reserved in the Sanctuary (it’s either in a separate chapel or the tabernacle is empty). It’s a sign of respect for the presence of God.
B
blessedrosary
Guest
Yes, I agree that God doesn’t care what denomination people are to be spiritually present. God is Spiritually present everywhere, and people can feel it more so in there faith, as you described no matter what denomination they are in. However, the Eucharist takes it a step farther by making God Physically present in bread and wine. So in a protestant church, you can look around and say, “I can feel God’s love in hear and see his goodness”. However, in a Catholic Church, you can look straight at a tabernacle and say, “My creator is IN there and when i eat the Eucharist, I am recieving God Physically as well as Spirtitually”
To me, that is a great difference. I have complete respect for the faith of Protestants and I have grown a lot in my faith because of them. But there is something far greater physically inside our Catholic churches.
S
Shibboleth
Guest
Since the majority of Lutheran Priests or Pastors do not have a valid line of apostolic succession they do not have the charismatic gift to consecrate the bread and wine.
Some Lutheran Priests do have a valid ordination so they can consecrate the Eucharist.
Incidentally Lutherans do not actually believe in Consubstantiation, this is a common misunderstanding even for Lutherans – Luther got rather upset once at some of his cohorts wanting the describe their view of the Eucharist as such.
Some Lutheran Priests do have a valid ordination so they can consecrate the Eucharist.
Incidentally Lutherans do not actually believe in Consubstantiation, this is a common misunderstanding even for Lutherans – Luther got rather upset once at some of his cohorts wanting the describe their view of the Eucharist as such.
K
kayla
Guest
What do they believe in???
S
Shibboleth
Guest
Well for the most part they leave it as a mystery – Luther didn’t like the Eucharist being defined by the prevailing philosophy of the day. But the difference is that Lutherans believe that the essence of Christ and the Essence of Bread are separate.
Consubstantiation is the belief that the essence of Christ and bread intermingle – Lutherans have a problem with this because just as honey and wheat make mead Christ mixed with the bread would make a third distinct element.
In regards to valid holy orders…. The Lutheran Church has inherited Catholic and Orthodox Priests that have left the Church and in some instances in odd parts of the world apostolic churches have intermingled with Lutheran Churches and those ordinations would be valid.
Consubstantiation is the belief that the essence of Christ and bread intermingle – Lutherans have a problem with this because just as honey and wheat make mead Christ mixed with the bread would make a third distinct element.
In regards to valid holy orders…. The Lutheran Church has inherited Catholic and Orthodox Priests that have left the Church and in some instances in odd parts of the world apostolic churches have intermingled with Lutheran Churches and those ordinations would be valid.
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
The Church of Sweden is also one of the rare instances in which a Lutheran denomination has retained a valid line of Apostolic Succession. Whether it’s present now or not, with their recent ordination of women, would be a question.
C
chriswilliam
Guest
I was taught by priest and nuns to respect other beliefs. Just because you’re in a Lutheran church doesn’t mean you have to believe in what they are saying. Christ said where ever two or more are gathered in my name I’am there. So if you don’t believe that their bread and wine is Jesus fine. But He is there somehow and you should show respect in their church like you do in the Catholic church. Just because you show respect for others mean you don’t have to give up yours
J
John_Paul_III
Guest
We’ll achieve that oneness a lot faster if we’d be more respectful of our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters instead of being so judgemental. [/QUOTE said:
- Status