Lutheran Faith Questions

[DD2007]

I am a Catholic who is married to a Lutheran woman. Her stepfather is a Lutheran Pastor. We have been married for 3 years and in that time I have thoroughly rejected the option of attending the Lutheran Church or giving his ideas an ear or credence because I thought he is Lutheran and if he has a PHD in theology he should know by now that he should convert to Catholicism because the gospel of John chapter 17 says we should all be one. He has been very patient and charitable with me. He even attended Mass with me. He took communion, which horrified me, but he didn’t utterly reject my Church the way I did his. That has been a couple years back.

Recently he and I were talking about God and things and one of his comments caught me off guard. He said, “God is more forgiving than man.” I thought that was profound but didn’t tell him because he must have had a lucky epiphany being a Lutheran and all. At any rate, I have been more open to giving Lutheranism an ear recently.

I have also joined a Christian ecumenical forum where there are Christians of all denominations that talk about all kinds of good things on a regular basis. On that forum I have read many post by Lutheran’s and weighed their actual beliefs against my own.

I can find no fault in the Lutheran faith. These are some very well balanced and sincere Christians! I am very impressed with their knowledge and patience. None of them have ever tried to convert me. However, I can’t find anything that I disagree with really in their faith.

Can someone point out to me why I should not seriously consider joining the Lutheran Church?

:ehh:

 

[JonNC]

I am a Catholic who is married to a Lutheran woman. Her stepfather is a Lutheran Pastor. We have been married for 3 years and in that time I have thoroughly rejected the option of attending the Lutheran Church or giving his ideas an ear or credence because I thought he is Lutheran and if he has a PHD in theology he should know by now that he should convert to Catholicism because the gospel of John chapter 17 says we should all be one. He has been very patient and charitable with me. He even attended Mass with me. He took communion, which horrified me, but he didn’t utterly reject my Church the way I did his. That has been a couple years back.

Recently he and I were talking about God and things and one of his comments caught me off guard. He said, “God is more forgiving than man.” I thought that was profound but didn’t tell him because he must have had a lucky epiphany being a Lutheran and all. At any rate, I have been more open to giving Lutheranism an ear recently.

I have also joined a Christian ecumenical forum where there are Christians of all denominations that talk about all kinds of good things on a regular basis. On that forum I have read many post by Lutheran’s and weighed their actual beliefs against my own.

I can find no fault in the Lutheran faith. These are some very well balanced and sincere Christians! I am very impressed with their knowledge and patience. None of them have ever tried to convert me. However, I can’t find anything that I disagree with really in their faith.

Can someone point out to me why I should not seriously consider joining the Lutheran Church?

:ehh:

I’m Lutheran

First, your father-in-law should know better than to receive communion in a Catholic Church, even if he knows the priest and has a good relationship with him. For me, it isn’t respectful to ignore their request that we not commune.

Second, unless you are trying to improve your marriage, I woould ask why you want to convert? Thanks for saying the kind things about us, but would encourage you to fully consider your reasons before changing. Is there anything in Catholicism you’re concerned about? If so, have you talked to your priest?
Not trying to discourage you, just think it all through. It is a big step.

Jon

 

[VARC]

The only beef that I really have with Lutherans is apostolic succession and women’s ordination (I know the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are okay on WO)

 

[DD2007]

Second, unless you are trying to improve your marriage, I woould ask why you want to convert? Thanks for saying the kind things about us, but would encourage you to fully consider your reasons before changing. Is there anything in Catholicism you’re concerned about? If so, have you talked to your priest?
Not trying to discourage you, just think it all through. It is a big step.

Jon

1. I don’t know if I want to convert or not. But I do believe in salvation by grace through faith. When I think about this it makes me happy. It also seems that all of the things I like about Catholicism are present in the Lutheran Church.
2. I am divorced because my first wife left me for another. My wife is divorced because her husband treated he badly and was having an affair with another woman. I have not taken communion in the Catholic Church since Oct 2005 when we first got together. I have anullment paperwork going through but it’s a very strange process. I don’t agree with it and believe that the Catholic CHurch should take your word for it and leave it between you and God.
3. I don’t really know my priest and he is so busy anyway that I feel like I’m bothering him. I have always felt that way when I try to talk to a Catholic priest. I have always felt like they didn’t have time for me.

 

[DD2007]

The only beef that I really have with Lutherans is apostolic succession and women’s ordination (I know the Missouri and Wisconsin synods are okay on WO)

I was thinking about that. It seems to me that the Lutheran’s do have apostolic succession as the Lutheran CHurch is a direct branch from the Western Catholic Church which is a direct brance from the original Eastern early Church which comes from Christ in Jerusalem. The Lutheran’s believe in the sacraments and even the Eucharist. I heard they even practice confession in some Lutheran Churches.

Women’s ordination I have not looked into, so I don’t know anything about it.

 

[VARC]

I was thinking about that. It seems to me that the Lutheran’s do have apostolic succession as the Lutheran CHurch is a direct branch from the Western Catholic Church which is a direct brance from the original Eastern early Church which comes from Christ in Jerusalem. The Lutheran’s believe in the sacraments and even the Eucharist. I heard they even practice confession in some Lutheran Churches.

That’s not really what apostolic succession means. By that logic the Baptists, the presbyterians, and pretty much all christian groups would have it. Rather, it means that the bishops of a particular church have an unbroken line of episcopal succession back to the apostles. Lutherans cannot do that nor do they believe that it is neccesary. I believe that apostolic succession is a biblical necessity and without it any person whatsoever could appoint himself a bishop in the catholic (little “c”) church.

Women’s ordination I have not looked into, so I don’t know anything about it.

I cannot reconcile the concept to scripture (1Tim 2:11-15, 1Cor 14:34-35)

 

[DD2007]

That’s not really what apostolic succession means. By that logic the Baptists, the presbyterians, and pretty much all christian groups would have it. Rather, it means that the bishops of a particular church have an unbroken line of episcopal succession back to the apostles. Lutherans cannot do that nor do they believe that it is neccesary. I believe that apostolic succession is a biblical necessity and without it any person whatsoever could appoint himself a bishop in the catholic (little “c”) church.

I cannot reconcile the concept to scripture (1Tim 2:11-15, 1Cor 14:34-35)

I think I actually believe that apostolic succession is the unbroken succession of the followers of Christ from the time of the Church of Jerusalem. As Pastors ordain one another there is an unbroken line! I can’t believe I’m saying this.

I have really been questioning the validity of Holy Orders recently. Why isn’t every believing Christian with a calling from God and an ordination in their branch of the Christian faith able to administer the sacraments?

I understand that Paul wrote against women being ordained. I don’t know enough about the circumstances to give any answer. I know that not all Lutheran’s ordain women. There are a few different branches from what I understand. All of them believe the same basic confession. Their differences lie in Ecclesiology which perhaps the ordination of women would fall under.

 

[VARC]

I have really been questioning the validity of Holy Orders recently. Why isn’t every believing Christian with a calling from God and an ordination in their branch of the Christian faith able to administer the sacraments?

With that logic you wouldn’t need a “branch of the Christian faith” because you could create your own branch and ordain yourself as a bishop to adminster your own sacraments. This way of thinking really destroys the biblical structure of the church.

 

[DD2007]

With that logic you wouldn’t need a “branch of the Christian faith” because you could create your own branch and ordain yourself as a bishop to adminster your own sacraments. This way of thinking really destroys the biblical structure of the church.

Why is that? Martin Luther came from the Western Catholic Church. The Western Catholic Curch came from the Eastern Catholic Church which was stared in Jerusalem by the risen Christ.

So, how can a difference of opinion cancel apostolic succesion? I don’t think it can. So we have many denominations that can all trace their lineage back to Christ.

A non christian person who picks up a bible and starts his own church did not originate from the church that Christ started, so that is different.

 

[JonNC]

1. I don’t know if I want to convert or not. But I do believe in salvation by grace through faith. When I think about this it makes me happy. It also seems that all of the things I like about Catholicism are present in the Lutheran Church.
2. I am divorced because my first wife left me for another. My wife is divorced because her husband treated he badly and was having an affair with another woman. I have not taken communion in the Catholic Church since Oct 2005 when we first got together. I have anullment paperwork going through but it’s a very strange process. I don’t agree with it and believe that the Catholic CHurch should take your word for it and leave it between you and God.
3. I don’t really know my priest and he is so busy anyway that I feel like I’m bothering him. I have always felt that way when I try to talk to a Catholic priest. I have always felt like they didn’t have time for me.

Sounds like you have some real needs that the Church needs to meet. My prayers are with you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Jon

Varc,
The ELCA claims succession through the Episcopal Church.

 

[VARC]

Why is that? Martin Luther came from the Western Catholic Church. The Western Catholic Curch came from the Eastern Catholic Church which was stared in Jerusalem by the risen Christ.

So, how can a difference of opinion cancel apostolic succesion? I don’t think it can. So we have many denominations that can all trace their lineage back to Christ.

A non christian person who picks up a bible and starts his own church did not originate from the church that Christ started, so that is different.

So do you believe that it would be legitimate for you to start your own church and ordain yourself a bishop if you feel you have a special calling? Do you feel that that position is compatible with scripture? The laying on of hands always comes from an ordained apostle or bishop in the Bible.

 

[VARC]

Sounds like you have some real needs that the Church needs to meet. My prayers are with you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Jon

Varc,
The ELCA claims succession through the Episcopal Church.

Yes I am aware but many believe (myself included) that their orders have been comprimised by women’s ordination.

 

[DD2007]

Sounds like you have some real needs that the Church needs to meet. My prayers are with you. Let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Jon

Varc,
The ELCA claims succession through the Episcopal Church.

Thank you.

My father in law says that we should take the Eucharist to strengthen us. He told me that no one has the authority to keep one from Christ.

I haven’t taken it since 2005 becasue of marital issues. However both of our divorces were out of our control becasue our spouses weren’t faithful to us. It says in Matthew 19:9 that this is an “exception” I am now going through an embarrassing annullment process because the Church dosn’t believe my word enough to let me keep this issue between me and God. If I had divorced my wife myself then I would have a problem and shouldn’t be given communion. But this was done to me, and the Church won’t take my word for it. I could go down and recieve communion and no one would know, but I don’t because I know it’s a rule and it would be wrong to go against their authority in their sanctuary.

So, I don’t know. The Lutheran’s seem pretty level headed and understanding to me. I might join them. I believe all the Churches are linked by our baptism anyway so what is the difference? It’s all still the Universal Catholic Church. Maybe it’s part of God’s plan that we have so many different confessions in the Christian faith. We are all one by right of our baptism though.

Should I stay Catholic or seek refuge in Lutheranism?

 

[DD2007]

So do you believe that it would be legitimate for you to start your own church and ordain yourself a bishop if you feel you have a special calling? Do you feel that that position is compatible with scripture? The laying on of hands always comes from an ordained apostle or bishop in the Bible.

No. I think you are ordained by members of a Church that came from Christ. Luther was a priest.

I think if you feel a special calling you should answer it. God is not bound by the rules of men and if He tells you to do something it is in everyone’s best interests that you do it.

I don’t see anything wrong with the succession of any church branch where the ordained held to their conscience even if it meant that they were not allowed to preach there anymore. Those whose conscience was in agreement with them followed them in an unbroken succession of Christian disagreement.

 

[DD2007]

Yes I am aware but many believe (myself included) that their orders have been comprimised by women’s ordination.

I really haven’t looked into where women are ordained. I know that my Grandmother was a Methodist. When we went ot her funeral it was presided over my a Methodist woman pastor.

Which Lutheran Branch ordains women? I don’t know. What if the ordaining of women was only frowned on at the time because of women’s place in their society would make it a disgrace? Paul also speaks about how to treat your slaves and even writes the letter of Philemon about a slave. Does this mean that savery is ok because it’s biblical? Doubt it.

Anyway I haven’t studied the ordination of women very much and don’t know where this is done. Currently I attend a Catholic Church. I went to mass today. If I do decide to go Lutheran I’m sure it will probably be in a Church with a male pastor until I could have enough time to discern this kind of thing.

Right now I’m still in the Catholic Church. I’m just very discouraged and my light of encouragement is coming from the very unlikley source of Martin Luther’s teaching of Christ.

 

[VARC]

Thank you.

My father in law says that we should take the Eucharist to strengthen us. He told me that no one has the authority to keep one from Christ.

I haven’t taken it since 2005 becasue of marital issues. However both of our divorces were out of our control becasue our spouses weren’t faithful to us. It says in Matthew 19:9 that this is an “exception” I am now going through an embarrassing annullment process because the Church dosn’t believe my word enough to let me keep this issue between me and God. If I had divorced my wife myself then I would have a problem and shouldn’t be given communion. But this was done to me, and the Church won’t take my word for it. I could go down and recieve communion and no one would know, but I don’t because I know it’s a rule and it would be wrong to go against their authority in their sanctuary.

So, I don’t know. The Lutheran’s seem pretty level headed and understanding to me. I might join them. I believe all the Churches are linked by our baptism anyway so what is the difference? It’s all still the Universal Catholic Church. Maybe it’s part of God’s plan that we have so many different confessions in the Christian faith. We are all one by right of our baptism though.

Should I stay Catholic or seek refuge in Lutheranism?

Sorry to give you a hard time. You asked why a person wouldn’t be Lutheran so I answered. I was kind of in the same position as you not so long ago. If I were you would try to remove my personal circumstances from the equation, take a step back, and try to conclude which church I believe teaches the most pure form of the Gospel. If you honestly believe in Lutheran doctrines than be a Lutheran. But don’t be Lutheran as a consolation because you have to jump through hoops to get communion from Rome. Be a Roman Catholic if you believe their teaching…if not go somewhere else. God bless.

 

[DD2007]

Sorry to give you a hard time. You asked why a person wouldn’t be Lutheran so I answered. I was kind of in the same position as you not so long ago. If I were you would try to remove myself from the equation, take a step back, and try to conclude which church I believe teaches the most pure form of the Gospel. If you honestly believe in Lutheran doctrines than be a Lutheran. But don’t be Lutheran as a consolation because you have to jump through hoops to get communion from Rome. Be a Roman Catholic if you believe their teaching…if not go somewhere else. God bless.

Thank you. I have a lot to figure out. At least I know that if I trust in God he will not leave me.

Sorry for the questions. I find it much easier to ask people here than anywhere else.

If I tell my father in law I’m considering Lutheranism, I’m afraid he’ll think an “I knew he didn’t know what he was doing.” I’m afraid to tell my kids because I have always told them the Catholic Church is right. I don’t feel like I can talk to my priest because this kind of thing isn’t important to them and sounds like whining. So, thank God for the good uses we can put the internet too.

Thanks for your replies. I’ll consider them.

 

[Jean_1958]

DD2007,

I am sorry to hear that you feel uable to go to your priest with your concerns about the RCC and whether or not to remain or leave for the Lutheran church. I would think that what you are considering would be of a great concern to your priest.

My husband left me when I was 9 months pregnant for another woman. Ours was a very, very messy and painful divorce. I went through the annulment process in my Archdiocese and it took three years.

The annulment process was very embarassing as it laid bare my whole life. I went to Mass but could not take communion. It was a hard time in my life. In the end, I feel that the annulment process was a cleansing that helped me to grow in my understanding of both the RCC and myself.

I encourage you to go to your priest with your concerns. I will be praying for you.

God Bless,

Jean

 

[DD2007]

DD2007,

I am sorry to hear that you feel uable to go to your priest with your concerns about the RCC and whether or not to remain or leave for the Lutheran church. I would think that what you are considering would be of a great concern to your priest.

My husband left me when I was 9 months pregnant for another woman. Ours was a very, very messy and painful divorce. I went through the annulment process in my Archdiocese and it took three years.

The annulment process was very embarassing as it laid bare my whole life. I went to Mass but could not take communion. It was a hard time in my life. In the end, I feel that the annulment process was a cleansing that helped me to grow in my understanding of both the RCC and myself.

I encourage you to go to your priest with your concerns. I will be praying for you.

God Bless,

Jean

Thank you. I’m sorry about what happened to you. That is terrible.

I’m feeling strange about the Church right now because I don’t understand why they have to go through this complicated process and why they just don’t take my word for it.

Also on another note I have a child I want to baptize but have to attend a class before they will do it. The class is all day on a Saturday. Why do they do that? I would think that they would be overjoyed to have the opportunity to baptize a child. Instead they just act like it’s a lot of work and schedule me for the mid January class…etc

I just don’t know. No one seems very happy in the Catholic Church. I don’t even really know anyone there. The priests are always busy. The admin people in the office are sometimes nice and sometimes I feel like I’m at the IRS and should take a number! It just seems like we are putting so much between ourselves and the Lord that is unnecessary and only complicates things. How much money does the Church waste on unnecessary bureaucracy that could be going to do good.

When someone says I would like my child to be baptized ask the necessary questions and say ok. When someone says I believe my marriage over or false or whatever because of these reasons, say ok it’s between you and God. Let your conscience be your guide. I am pretty disturbed right now at the nonsense. It also takes a person almost 9 months of class before they are allowed the sacraments for the first time. That is silly. I am really starting to agree with my father in law that no one has the authority to keep someone from Christ.

 

[DD2007]

On another note, I had a friend who converted to Catholicism from the Pentecostal faith. His wife left him for another man after over 20 years of marriage! The priest told him he would need to have it annulled if he ever wanted to marry again. He was getting older and found a suitable wife. He asked the priest if that would make his children illegitimate and the priest had no answer. He said that he knew his children weren’t born out of wedlock and he wouldn’t have them think they were. So he was denied communion in the Church because he wouldn’t get the annulment. He said he loved the Church and wanted to be a part of it but they excommunicated him over the issue.

He died last Sunday night. I went to his funeral on Friday. It was presided over by a Pentecostal preacher his son found that used to preach in a church they attended. His sister, a Catholic, prayed by his casket before they lowered it.

I think it is a tragedy. However, I believe he was saved by the Grace of God through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. As my Lutheran father in law says, “God is more forgiving than men.”

Given the marriage issues, the difficulty of obtaining the sacraments, and the overall feeling I’m getting from the Church, and the disregard for the needs of the flock by the Catholic Church authorities, I am seriously thinking about joining the Lutheran Faith. At least they don’t keep people from Christ as a punishment.

I am angry right now. I’ll think hard on this.