D
DenRat
Guest
We have friends, a couple, who are collage educated and very Lutheran (ELCA). They are very active in their church. His father was a pastor and both families are Lutheran through and through, though their familes don’t live in our state.
I’m a cradle Catholic without much early education. I am now, however, learning more and more apologetics to defend my faith. My husband quietly converted from Lutheran (WI synod) to Catholicism almost 2 years ago but is not well-versed in the Catholic faith to argue any point of faith. Besides, it’s not in his personality.
From time to time this couple brings up various subjects about the differences or tries to persuade us of the Lutheran arguments. I am acutally thankful because it is partly the reason I have looked into my faith more to learn the truth.
I do the best I can but it seems like they don’t accept any of the points I make. For example, they brought up Sola Fide and justification, and I suggested they read James 2:4 (I think) where it says Faith without works is dead. I received back a twisted argument that really didn’t make any sense to me but was so convoluted that I didn’t know where to answer.
Another example was that Mary was not a perpetual virgin. She brought out the King James version (explaining it’s the most read and respected bible) and showed the passage about Jesus’ brothers and sisters. I explained about kinsmen and the word cousin not being in the language or the theory about Joseph being widowed before as a possibility but that Mary was always a perpetual virgin (I since learned the full answer). She didn’t accept that explanation.
They are very intimidating. I bet they would be great to convert once they got their teeth on something they discovered for themselves. But they are also 10 years our senior and highly educated as I mentioned, who don’t seem to be swayed at all by anything I say. He is very good at talking circles and seems to believe what he is saying.
Any suggestions for talking with them? Should I bring it up next time? How? Should I wait until they come at us with another argument? Should I suggest or lend a book? What would sway Lutherans? Early Church fathers writings? I don’t fully understand their reasoning. (His latest argument is that he has come to believe that fornication is not a sin because it doesn’t actually mention it in the 10 commandments).
Recently, she showed me her little book of catechism from childhood and explained what she had to recite from memory. I noticed a chapter on the Office of the Keys. I wasn’t prepared for what it was (knew they didn’t see Peter as the holder of the keys) so I said nothing. I went home to look it up on the Internet and it appears that they believe that everyone has been given the keys and discounts the authority of the pope. When I read scripture their argument doesn’t hold water. However, for me to bring it up (I’m pretty comfortable in this area of apologetics) would probably be another argument lost.
Any suggestions for approaching them? I can learn the apologetics but how do I effectively make my points or do I just give them material to read on their own? I have left out copies of “This Rock” magazine and when they visit he has picked one up while we were getting drinks mixed. Another time, she noticed it on the table and the headline was “Can the bible be trusted?”. She commented on it and I should have asked her if she wanted to read it but I said something like “They always have rather provocative headlines” and let it drop. Should I lend them my magazines?
Thanks in advance.
Denise
I’m a cradle Catholic without much early education. I am now, however, learning more and more apologetics to defend my faith. My husband quietly converted from Lutheran (WI synod) to Catholicism almost 2 years ago but is not well-versed in the Catholic faith to argue any point of faith. Besides, it’s not in his personality.
From time to time this couple brings up various subjects about the differences or tries to persuade us of the Lutheran arguments. I am acutally thankful because it is partly the reason I have looked into my faith more to learn the truth.
I do the best I can but it seems like they don’t accept any of the points I make. For example, they brought up Sola Fide and justification, and I suggested they read James 2:4 (I think) where it says Faith without works is dead. I received back a twisted argument that really didn’t make any sense to me but was so convoluted that I didn’t know where to answer.
Another example was that Mary was not a perpetual virgin. She brought out the King James version (explaining it’s the most read and respected bible) and showed the passage about Jesus’ brothers and sisters. I explained about kinsmen and the word cousin not being in the language or the theory about Joseph being widowed before as a possibility but that Mary was always a perpetual virgin (I since learned the full answer). She didn’t accept that explanation.
They are very intimidating. I bet they would be great to convert once they got their teeth on something they discovered for themselves. But they are also 10 years our senior and highly educated as I mentioned, who don’t seem to be swayed at all by anything I say. He is very good at talking circles and seems to believe what he is saying.
Any suggestions for talking with them? Should I bring it up next time? How? Should I wait until they come at us with another argument? Should I suggest or lend a book? What would sway Lutherans? Early Church fathers writings? I don’t fully understand their reasoning. (His latest argument is that he has come to believe that fornication is not a sin because it doesn’t actually mention it in the 10 commandments).
Recently, she showed me her little book of catechism from childhood and explained what she had to recite from memory. I noticed a chapter on the Office of the Keys. I wasn’t prepared for what it was (knew they didn’t see Peter as the holder of the keys) so I said nothing. I went home to look it up on the Internet and it appears that they believe that everyone has been given the keys and discounts the authority of the pope. When I read scripture their argument doesn’t hold water. However, for me to bring it up (I’m pretty comfortable in this area of apologetics) would probably be another argument lost.
Any suggestions for approaching them? I can learn the apologetics but how do I effectively make my points or do I just give them material to read on their own? I have left out copies of “This Rock” magazine and when they visit he has picked one up while we were getting drinks mixed. Another time, she noticed it on the table and the headline was “Can the bible be trusted?”. She commented on it and I should have asked her if she wanted to read it but I said something like “They always have rather provocative headlines” and let it drop. Should I lend them my magazines?
Thanks in advance.
Denise
*
