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UnumCorpus
Guest
I don’t really have much to add at the moment, but I just wanted to say that I find this to be a very encouraging thread
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I don’t really have much to add at the moment, but I just wanted to say that I find this to be a very encouraging thread
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Indifferently
Guest
The Church of Rome does NOT teach Mary as Co-Redemptrix. If it did, that would be an act equivalent to apostasy (however you try and frame it). Pope Benedict more or less nipped the idea in the bud when other bishops were petitioning for it.
As for preaching, RC preaching can sometimes be fluffy in the same way that Anglican preaching can be - in the most orthodox of quarters. I think preaching should primarily be reserved for evangelization directly through the Gospel and the Cross, and the immediate need to repent and believe.
Sometimes, our academic interests can come through in sermons and, yes, whilst they are interesting, they ought to be reserved for other contexts outside the liturgy itself.
As for preaching, RC preaching can sometimes be fluffy in the same way that Anglican preaching can be - in the most orthodox of quarters. I think preaching should primarily be reserved for evangelization directly through the Gospel and the Cross, and the immediate need to repent and believe.
Sometimes, our academic interests can come through in sermons and, yes, whilst they are interesting, they ought to be reserved for other contexts outside the liturgy itself.
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MaryT777
Guest
It’s the term co-redemptrix that I dislike. No it’s not dogma. but it has been discussed.
It’s confusing to people for you can note there are threads here on CAF as to exactly what that term
means.
Mary.
It’s confusing to people for you can note there are threads here on CAF as to exactly what that term
means.
Mary.
Sometimes I think, secretly, the bigger problem is the LWF, and not the CC.Yes.
Do you forsee the LCMS ever adding their signature to the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification JDDJ (I’m trying to follow forum rules not to abbreviate LOL in case someone wonders why I type that out-lurkers have written to ask what that is
If I understand correctly Martin Luther felt that was the doctrine the Church would stand
or fall on; or something as such. I also read online the LCMS had some real issues with the siging of that declaration by the LWF.
Jon
Let me check under the seat of my car.I really love visiting the LCMS Church here where my friend is Associate Pastor.
The Christ Centered preaching and teaching is fantastic! I think sometimes the way we present things such as the Eucharist fails to really note it is Christ at the center that is of import thus why the Real Presence is of import. We could learn from the LCMS
Also I love the Law/Gospel way of preaching now that I am used to it and the Bible based sermons are great. I have learned a lot about the Bible by preaching it was excellent.
Converts also complain that Catholic Sermons/Homilies are “fluffly” Now I know what they mean. They aren’t as nuts and bolts sometimes. That’s just a difference in preaching.
I would like to see the Co-Redemptrix pharase obsolete! That leads to so many misconceptions and is to me not a good statement at all. I also cringe when I see
Catholics in HUGE groups carrying around a statue for I feel as a Church we have
an obligation to make it explicitly clear that Cross is the center of Christianity and
by his cross and resurrection he has set us free. He is the savior of the World.
Ok, Jon, Let’s join the next round of the Catholic Lutheran dialogue LOL ** (Wait My invitation isn’t here yet, did you get yours? **LOL
Jon
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MaryT777
Guest
Let me check under the seat of my car.
Jon
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commenter
Guest
Quote:"… Catholics in HUGE groups carrying around a statue for I feel as a Church we have an obligation to make it explicitly clear that Cross is the center of Christianity and
by his cross and resurrection he has set us free. He is the savior of the World…"
I am not uneasy that Catholics in huge groups practice a devotion. People forget that almost all attacks on religion today are attacks on Catholicism. Anti-Catholicism is the only respectable bigotry nowadays, won’t get you fired from the network or politics. We need more, not fewer, Catholics coming together for devotions. The problem as I see it is that so few Catholics, or Lutherans, understand devotion. Cerebral Christianity is incomplete Christianity.
The best way to illustrate the relationship between Christ and His cross is to show them together, the way it actually happened. Christ isn’t related to the cross in some intellectual exercise, He was nailed to it, for our sins. Lutherans and Catholics should learn to unite before the crucifix, so that we can also unite at the resurrection.
by his cross and resurrection he has set us free. He is the savior of the World…"
I am not uneasy that Catholics in huge groups practice a devotion. People forget that almost all attacks on religion today are attacks on Catholicism. Anti-Catholicism is the only respectable bigotry nowadays, won’t get you fired from the network or politics. We need more, not fewer, Catholics coming together for devotions. The problem as I see it is that so few Catholics, or Lutherans, understand devotion. Cerebral Christianity is incomplete Christianity.
The best way to illustrate the relationship between Christ and His cross is to show them together, the way it actually happened. Christ isn’t related to the cross in some intellectual exercise, He was nailed to it, for our sins. Lutherans and Catholics should learn to unite before the crucifix, so that we can also unite at the resurrection.
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Corki
Guest
Well said. Frankly, whenever there are “huge groups” involved in any Catholic devotion, I am thrilled.
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benjohnson
Guest
Ha!Sometimes I think, secretly, the bigger problem is the LWF, and not the CC.
Jon
Though to be fair, there are pockets of sanity in the LWF synods. May those beacons persevere!
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steido01
Guest
npatrol: I get to be the no-fun police… but Dr. Schneider does not represent a Lutheran church body at all. He hails from the Evangelical Church of the Rhineland, which is a successor church to the Prussian “Union” churches.For those who are unfamiliar with Lutheran history, most Confessional Lutherans in America trace their roots back to when the Prussian government forced Lutheran and Reformed churches to merge into a tightly-controlled state church. Lutherans who refused to join the state church were persecuted. Most went to Australia or America in search of religious freedom (some moved to a place called Missouri
). More information is available here.In short, Dr. Schneider doesn’t represent Lutheranism any more than the Dalai Lama.
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hn160
Guest
For the life of me, I do not understand why Catholics such as the Pope would waste their time talking to the LWF or members of that group when they do not practice orthodox Christianity. They ordain women, homosexuals, condone abortions, among other things. They will always agree to disagree.
For those who are unfamiliar with Lutheran history, most Confessional Lutherans in America trace their roots back to when the Prussian government forced Lutheran and Reformed churches to merge into a tightly-controlled state church. Lutherans who refused to join the state church were persecuted. Most went to Australia or America in search of religious freedom (some moved to a place called Missouri
In short, Dr. Schneider doesn’t represent Lutheranism any more than the Dalai Lama.
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JustaServant
Guest
Didn’t they start WW1?
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steido01
Guest
You and me both, friend. From a practical standpoint it sure seems like a waste of time, but as other posters have noted, there are still a few bright spots in the LWF.
Who knows? Perhaps some in the LWF can turn back. All things are possible through Him.
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steido01
Guest
I see what you did there…Didn’t they start WW1?
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MaryT777
Guest
It’s too bad he gets lumped into the title “Lutheran” for this passage. Probably as
For those who are unfamiliar with Lutheran history, most Confessional Lutherans in America trace their roots back to when the Prussian government forced Lutheran and Reformed churches to merge into a tightly-controlled state church. Lutherans who refused to join the state church were persecuted. Most went to Australia or America in search of religious freedom (some moved to a place called Missouri
In short, Dr. Schneider doesn’t represent Lutheranism any more than the Dalai Lama.
annoying as Catholics that tell you they dissagree with this or that Catholic doctrine
or dogma going to represent the Catholic Church with the Confessional Lutheran
President? (right term?) Bishop?
Mary.
Well said. ISTM that the ILC (International Lutheran Conference), which includes the LCMS, is in a far better position to dialogue, particularly because of the issues you mention.
The CC will never ordain women and openly practicing gays, and neither will we. The CC will never condone abortion, and neither will we.
Jon
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qui_est_ce
Guest
What is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Germany then?
For those who are unfamiliar with Lutheran history, most Confessional Lutherans in America trace their roots back to when the Prussian government forced Lutheran and Reformed churches to merge into a tightly-controlled state church. Lutherans who refused to join the state church were persecuted. Most went to Australia or America in search of religious freedom (some moved to a place called Missouri
In short, Dr. Schneider doesn’t represent Lutheranism any more than the Dalai Lama.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
I was thinking the same thing.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
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steido01
Guest
I think the body you are referring to is the United Evangelical Lutheran Church of Germany, which is the supposedly “Lutheran” portion of the larger state-affiliated Evangelical Church in Germany. In reality, it is a “union” church that uses some historic Lutheran hymns and liturgies while practicing a faith that is decidedly more liberal and certainly outside of orthodox Lutheranism. Of course, there may be individuals in those bodies that still practice Lutheranism…
To find an actual, Confessional Lutheran church in Germany, one would need to look to the Independent Evangelical Lutheran Church (SELK) which, as the name implies, is independent of government intrusion.
Just to paint how bad the “unification” was for Lutherans… “The confessional Lutherans were persecuted during the first half of 19th century by the state. Many of them were not allowed to hold church services or have their children baptized or confirmed according to the liturgy of the Lutheran Church. In some areas of Germany, it took decades until the Confessional Lutherans were granted religious freedom.” SELK wasn’t officially formed until the 1970’s and has just 36,000 members in Germany.
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