Lutheran service (Ad Orientem / Kneeling / ...)

[QDude]

I attended a suburban Lutheran church (Missouri Synod) with family this last weekend and was pleasantly surprised that they knelt for the confiteor and the pastor faced Ad Orientem during his prayers. Also, everyone knelt for communion at a communion rail.

I couldn’t help but wish we were able to hold onto some of these practices in suburban Catholic parishes.

Ed

 

[warrior71]

QDude:

I attended a suburban Lutheran church (Missouri Synod) with family this last weekend and was pleasantly surprised that they knelt for the confiteor and the pastor faced Ad Orientem during his prayers. Also, everyone knelt for communion at a communion rail.

I couldn’t help but wish we were able to hold onto some of these practices in suburban Catholic parishes.

Ed

It is always a source of deep sadness to me that most Lutherans are much more reverent at their services than most Catholics are at ours.
Heck who knows, maybe old Martin was on to something years ago.

 

[Wisdom]

warrior71:

It is always a source of deep sadness to me that most Lutherans are much more reverent at their services than most Catholics are at ours.
Heck who knows, maybe old Martin was on to something years ago.

Well it depends on the Lutheran church and on the catholic church I have been to some Lutheran church’s that resemble non=denominational worship services needless to say no kneeling but a lot of hand waving and pentacostal gestures.
I have also been to some Lutheran church’s err more catholic than the Pope almost and of course I have expericned the same thing within catholic church’s heck I can’t figure it out either. Sometimes these things are more reflective of the pastor than the denomination they proportedly belong to.
There is a lack of litrugical consistency in both Lutheranism and Catholicsim.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

The liturgy is flexible and simply creates a framework for the greater Mysteries to settle into. Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, regardless of whether people are reverant or not. Liturgy can act as a hinderance to people being able to really see this Truth but ultimately, Lutherans have a framework that contains within it nothing to be seen in the first place so there is a fundamental concern that goes beyond irreverance. The two cannot be compared as one is concerning reverance or irreverance in the face of Christ and the other is concerned with reverance in the face of small bits of bread and little plastic cups of wine.

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

The liturgy is flexible and simply creates a framework for the greater Mysteries to settle into. Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, regardless of whether people are reverant or not. Liturgy can act as a hinderance to people being able to really see this Truth but ultimately, Lutherans have a framework that contains within it nothing to be seen in the first place so there is a fundamental concern that goes beyond irreverance. The two cannot be compared as one is concerning reverance or irreverance in the face of Christ and the other is concerned with reverance in the face of small bits of bread and little plastic cups of wine.

Exactly. And the ones who show reverence show it to wine and bread, whilst I would consider most Masses to be equivalent of ringing up Christ, telling him to come on down, and spitting in His Holy Face when He walks through the door.

Go figure.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Servus Pio XII:

Exactly. And the ones who show reverence show it to wine and bread, whilst I would consider most Masses to be equivalent of ringing up Christ, telling him to come on down, and spitting in His Holy Face when He walks through the door.

Go figure.

I’m kind of insulted here; not too much to rave, but to gently, kindly, say-

Maybe it’s because I live in an area where there are more Catholics per square mile than most, but I find most mornings a very reverent Mass celebrated in my parish church, without use of Latin, ad orientum, or music of any variety (good, bad, indifferent). I firmly believe Jesus shows up for that Mass when “rung up”. I do not believe He is, nor do I believe He considers Himself, to be “spit” in His Holy Face when He does arrive- and He does arrive. It is a Mass that follows the precepts of Rome, which is more than Lutherans can do, even with all the fancy trappings. :twocents:

 

[CollegeCatholic]

OutinChgoburbs:

I’m kind of insulted here; not too much to rave, but to gently, kindly, say-

Maybe it’s because I live in an area where there are more Catholics per square mile than most, but I find most mornings a very reverent Mass celebrated in my parish church, without use of Latin, ad orientum, or music of any variety (good, bad, indifferent). I firmly believe Jesus shows up for that Mass when “rung up”. I do not believe He is, nor do I believe He considers Himself, to be “spit” in His Holy Face when He does arrive- and He does arrive. It is a Mass that follows the precepts of Rome, which is more than Lutherans can do, even with all the fancy trappings. :twocents:

Ironically, spitting in one’s face is a sign of respect in certain parts of the world, seriously. Just goes to show you how attached we are to particular cultural inventions and lift them up a priori. While we enjoy our ethnocentrism, the rest of the Catholic world is prospering. The heart of the Church is in South America and Africa, not a Latin Liturgy in the USA. Christ meets us where we are at, not where a few eurocentric liturgists identify He does.

Christ is interested in an open heart, not a flavor of liturgy.

 

[Wisdom]

Don’t forget Asia is one of the fastest growing regions for the catholic church. The Pope just elected 2 new asian cardinals which is reflective of the growth and importance of Asia as a missionary field.
Chins is really the rosetta stone of the mission field that both catholics and protestants covet we will see how that works out.

 

[JNB]

Actually the church isint doing any better in Latin America than it is in Europe and North America, the church did fine for hundreds of years in Latin America when the mass was in Latin. As for Asia, church growth in India has stalled, and it is not even keeping up with population growth there.

CollegeCatholic:

Ironically, spitting in one’s face is a sign of respect in certain parts of the world, seriously. Just goes to show you how attached we are to particular cultural inventions and lift them up a priori. While we enjoy our ethnocentrism, the rest of the Catholic world is prospering. The heart of the Church is in South America and Africa, not a Latin Liturgy in the USA. Christ meets us where we are at, not where a few eurocentric liturgists identify He does.

Christ is interested in an open heart, not a flavor of liturgy.

 

[Wisdom]

The Latin American church has it problems to but it’s not anywhere near the below 10 percent mass attenidng catholcism of Europe or the 20 percent in the United States.
The church is growing a lot in Africa and Asia sure there are some exceptions but overall this is a true statement. Christianity has been a bad word in India thanks to the British and Catholcism has never been more than a 1 or 2 percent player in that country’s religious adherents even when they had the latin mass. Are we going to nitpick on every country are we?
Look every region has a different health report on its Catholcism but AMerican is and Europe is pretty much among the worst with the Middle East being the absoulute worst due to problems with Islam and mass migration of Christians for their surivival. But if you go to the Phillipines, Africa, or Mexico the state of catholcism is far better than it is here but even so its not perfect and guess what its never been perfect anytime or anywhere read your bible the early church was a mess too. Sure things have been better in the USA but we live in modernist and secualr society and frankly I am amazed that in these times we have 20 percent mass attendance wehn many countries can’t even claim 5 percent.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

Wisdom:

Don’t forget Asia is one of the fastest growing regions for the catholic church. The Pope just elected 2 new asian cardinals which is reflective of the growth and importance of Asia as a missionary field.
Chins is really the rosetta stone of the mission field that both catholics and protestants covet we will see how that works out.

I was simply making a generalization so I wasn’t trying to discount Southeast Asia. Good point.

As for those who are saying that the Church is hurting in Latin America, could you please cite something? Other than the emergence of the Pentacostal movement being somewhat popular, what is going with our sisters and brothers in the south?

 

[Marian_Carroll]

As discussion on the original topic apears to have concluded the thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated.