Lutheranism, Anglicanism, and Catholicism

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And, generally, are in impaired communion with other Communion members, who seem to them to be …odd.

Stirred by a post immediately above, I was just thinking of a long series of posts, re: the Swedish Church and the Episcopate, somewhere in the past.
 
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Ah. That’s right. Sometimes those British tabloid headlines make it seem like they left ages ago lol.
 
Greetings Jon. It’s been a while. Do you have a post where you shared your conversion from LCMS? If so, send me the link.

(PnP)
 
dochawk said:
AFAIK, they all have the office, although primarily or exclusively in an administrative capacity, and for a turm.
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It’s my understanding that while some Lutheran bodies have the office of bishops, not all Lutherans believe that historical apostolic succession is necessary to be a bishop. This is why when the ELCA entered into full communion with the Episcopal Church, Episcopal bishops had to participate in the consecrations of all future ELCA bishops because the ELCA up to that time had not maintained historical succession.
 
Luther is quite misunderstood. I think there is a good overlap between Anglo-Catholics and High Church Lutherans. Aesthetically, the liturgies of the LCMS in America look catholic. Anglicans and Old Catholics enjoy close ecumenical ties with LCMS, ELCA, and churches of the Porvoo Communion, which all preserve the episcopate/apostolic succession. Lutheran World Federation affirms the authority of the Councils, in a statement with the Orthodox, and Luther frequently cites the Church Fathers. (Calvin, for that matter, relied heavily on Saint Augustine). Lutherans affirm the Real Presence. They maintain Calendars of Saints. They affirm Mary as a pereptual virgin and as Theotokos. Luther even believed in the Immaculate Conception- n 1544 Luther said: ‘God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus.’[15] Elsewhere, “All seed except Mary was vitiated [by original sin].”[16] When concentrating specifically on Mary herself as the Mother of God, Luther acknowledges God’s singular action in bringing her into the world, but in making general comments about the universality of human sinfulness, he includes her among all the rest of humanity.
Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are. For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person.
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The fundamental differences reside on the interpretations of salvation.
 
Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are. For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person.
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Can you link a source for this?
 
GKMotley said:
JonNC? Can we get an imprimatur on this?
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Much of what @jschwartz is accurate. There are a few things that are generalizations. For example, while Lutherans generally accept the councils, they do so in different degrees. Some Lutherans accept the first four, others all 7.

While all Lutherans (should) affirm apostolic succession, some still practice presbyter ordination as a valid exception similar to the 1400’s Cistercian abbots.
 
jschwartz said:
Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are. For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person.
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(Martin Luther, Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, ed. John Nicholas Lenker. [Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1996], 291)
 
jschwartz said:
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jschwartz:
Mother Mary, like us, was born in sin of sinful parents, but the Holy Spirit covered her, sanctified and purified her so that this child was born of flesh and blood, but not with sinful flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit permitted the Virgin Mary to remain a true, natural human being of flesh and blood, just as we. However, he warded off sin from her flesh and blood so that she became the mother of a pure child, not poisoned by sin as we are. For in that moment when she conceived, she was a holy mother filled with the Holy Spirit and her fruit is a holy pure fruit, at once God and truly man, in one person.
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(Martin Luther, Sermons of Martin Luther, Vol. 3, ed. John Nicholas Lenker. [Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1996], 291)
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Thanks. …
 
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