Lutherans and OSAS

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My girlfriend of almost two years is Lutheran (ELCA) and last night we finally started discussing theological differences as the topic of marriage comes up.

Anyhow she swears up and down that Lutherans believe in the “Once Saved Always Saved” salvation and that if you “accept Jesus into your heart as you personal Savior” all of your past, present, and future sins are forgiven. For example, she says she’s “saved” and even if she goes on a killing spree, she can’t lose her salvation.

I told her that’s a Baptist/Bible Christian belief that Lutherans don’t have. I don’t want to try to claim I know more about Lutherans than she does, but I’m pretty sure I’m right about this one.

Can any Lutherans out there clarify for me?
 
I’m no expert on Lutheranism, but my understanding is that they don’t subscribe to the “once saved always saved” belief. They put more merit into “faith alone” (sola fide).
 
Hi Jabronie, 🙂

You are correct in your assertions…Lutheran’s do not believe in OSAS. Lutheran’s hold the Catholic view of We have been saved; we are being saved; and we hope to be saved. Lutherans definitely believe you can lose your salvation.
ELCA Lutheran’s are definitely more liberal in their thinking than LCMS and LCA (Lutheran Church of Australia) etc, however, this is certainly not the reason for her misguided views. I hope she can be dissuaded from this body of thought.

Peace and Love 🙂
 
Lutheran’s do not believe in the OSAS doctrine, it is reserved for the non-denominational sects of Protestants.

Roman Catholic Church and Lutheran World Federation Sign in Augsburg on October 31, 1999 Historical Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

cesnur.org/testi/cath_luth_1.htm

Sara
 
Jabronie said:
“Once Saved Always Saved” …
I told her that’s a Baptist/Bible Christian belief that Lutherans don’t have.
Click to expand...

Philippians 2:12 - “continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling”
Hebrews 6:4-6 - “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance”

As popular as it is amongst a wide variety of (particularly Protestant) believers, the doctrine is not supported by the Bible. I have yet to hear it taught in a church, although I have met plenty of people who subscribe to it, largely out of naive hope.
 
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sara888:
Lutheran’s do not believe in the OSAS doctrine, it is reserved for the non-denominational sects of Protestants.
Click to expand...
That’s pretty wide of the mark.

All of the Reformed, Calvinist, or Presbyterian denominations (with the exception of a small group called the Cumberland Presbyterians) believe in OSAS. Included in this are the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, the third largest Lutheran body in America, although they are not consistently Calvinist.

There are various forms of the doctrine, as I’ve explained in another thread.

Southern Baptists ordinarily believe in OSAS (although they have no official, binding creed). I’d hardly call them a “nondenominational sect of Protestants.” They’re the largest noncatholic body in America.

Most nondenominational churches are charismatic and reject the doctrine of OSAS.
 
quote:Kevan
I’d hardly call them a “nondenominational sect of Protestants.” They’re the largest noncatholic body in America.
Click to expand...
I knew Southern Baptists were a large denomination, but I did
not know that they are “the largest noncatholic body in America.”

Thanks for the information,

Best,

reen12
 
Hi Kevin,🙂

According to ‘This Rock’ March 2002…

4. What’s the history behind the teaching that you could lose your salvation?

**The first person to espouse the idea of “once saved, always saved” was John Calvin in the mid-sixteenth century. Even Martin Luther didn’t subscribe to the theory. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin, as John spoke about in 1 John 5:16–17.
**
Now, having posted that, It is possible some Lutheran Churches may have deviated from the Lutheran teaching, but it still does not mean that the Lutheran faith as a whole, espouses that body of thought. To use an example of this in the Catholic Church…
Mel Gibson calls himself Catholic, but is a member of the SSPX, apparently…now if you ask most Catholics whether this ‘Catholic Church’ is in communion with Rome, I would be interested in seeing the results…
Point being; just because they are linked by name, does not mean they necessarily ‘speak’ for the majority. The WELS may be a major church in America, but America is not the only place in the world with Lutherans…
As a whole, the Lutheran Church does not teach OSAS.
Peace and Love 🙂
 
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reen12:
quote:Kevan

I knew Southern Baptists were a large denomination, but I did
not know that they are “the largest noncatholic body in America.”

Thanks for the information,

Best,

reen12
Click to expand...
Hi reen,

Southern Baptists aren’t the only Baptists in America. I always thought this, but my ex girlfriend corrected me.
 
Hi, Semper Fi,

quote: Semper Fi
Southern Baptists aren’t the only Baptists in America. I always thought this, but my ex girlfriend corrected me.
Click to expand...
I can never figure out whether Southern Baptists represent
a denomination, with members in various parts of the
country.
My ignorance in this area is abysmal.

Thanks for your information, Semper Fi,

Best,
reen
 
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reen12:
Hi, Semper Fi,

quote: Semper Fi

I can never figure out whether Southern Baptists represent
a denomination, with members in various parts of the
country.
My ignorance in this area is abysmal.

Thanks for your information, Semper Fi,

Best,
reen
Click to expand...
Southern Baptists are a convention of churches, a denomination if you will (without any leadership structure [as far as I know]).
 
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Nun_ofthe_Above:
just because they are linked by name, does not mean they necessarily ‘speak’ for the majority.
Click to expand...
Of course not. They speak for themselves, the third largest group of Lutherans in America. The point is, they are not a “nondenominational sect of Protestants,” nor are most of the other believers in OSAS.

Technically this group believes it, but they believe it in such a way as to guard carefully against the idea that one may live in sin and presume on final salvation.
 
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reen12:
I can never figure out whether Southern Baptists represent a denomination, with members in various parts of the country.
Click to expand...
Baptists believe in the autonomy of the local church, so every congregation is independent. These independent churches sometimes form associations for the sake of of fellowship and team effort in such endeavors as foreign missions. One such association is the Southern Baptist Convention. A church is “Southern Baptist” if it sends money to the general SBC fund, called “The Cooperative Program.” That makes them a “cooperating” Baptist church and their “messenger” can vote in the Convention meetings.

Typically, SBC churches will share much in common regarding teachings, style, tone, practices, and literature. Nevertheless, each church is autonomous.

A Southern Baptist preacher who doesn’t believe in OSAS is a rare bird.
 
Thanks, Semper Fi, for the additional information.

Kevan, I found your response a model of clarity! 🙂

Thanks to you both, for helping to dispel my ignorance.

Best wishes,

reen12
 
Kevan said:

“guard carefully against the idea that one may live in sin and presume on final salvation.”

If you could explain what you mean by the above statement, mabey I misinterpreted your meaning or definition.

According to their teachers and doctrine they profess it is impossible to keep the ten commandments so I would say they refute the idea of guarding against living in sin. They claim one should do good deeds, charity, etc, but if they dont indeed follow Gods Laws they still are saved or guranteed Eternal Salvation.

They feel Christ has already paid for their sins, past, present and future.OSAS teachers distorted Bible passages to fit into the OSAS teaching. I find their distortions so false thats its hard to see how they comprehend and interpret such passages the way they do.

Sara
 
Most Lutherans reject OSAS.

There are two distinct versions of the OSAS heresy. The Calvinist version of OSAS (which posits that men have no free will), and the antinomian version of OSAS (which posits that men have free will). Southern Baptists generally preach the heresy of antinomianism.

Luther never preached either form of OSAS. In fact, it is Luther that coined the term “antinomianism” to describe the errors of John Agricola.*Antinomian. [Greek, anti-nomos, exempt from the law.]

One who believes that Christians are not bound to observe the “law of God,” but “may continue in sin that grace may abound.” The term was first applied to John Agricola by Martin Luther.

bartleby.com/81/778.html
 
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sara888:
If you could explain what you mean by the above statement, mabey I misinterpreted your meaning or definition.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the beliefs of the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, so the fact that it doesn’t sound like other groups you’ve encountered is to be expected.

Their particular angle is that God has elected certain ones to salvation from eternity past. Those elect ones will certainly persevere in their faith until the end of life and they will be glorified. This is all because God has ordained that it should be so.

Yet, they say, there are others who seem to have saving faith, but nevertheless fall away before their lives end. These souls are lost, not because they lost their salvation, but because they never really had it. They weren’t elected by God as the first group was.

So a Christian doesn’t have the option of living in sin; only those who persevere to the end are truly elect.

I’m not part of this group, I just read their web site. If you think that there’s some inconsistency in this position, well, you’re not alone . The point, again, is that they believe in the Reformed doctrine of OSAS and they are not a “nondenominational sect of Protestants.” And their particular angle guards against affirming, as antinomians do, that one may live in sin and go to Heaven.
 
I agree Lutherans and Baptist are Not non-denominational sects, however I was trying to describe its theological postion as in the **mainstream of traditional Lutheranism. ** It describes its theological positions as “Biblical, Confessional, Evangelical, Liturgical, and Congregational.”

Most Lutherans do believe one can lose their Salvation/
Synod Lutherans do profess the OSAS doctrine

Sara
 
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