Lutherans Declare Catholic Priesthood is Valid

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JonNC said:
You rarely will find an adoration chapel, not that said is doctrinally forbidden. Lutherans tend to practice Eucharistc adoration within the sacramental act. However, when I know that, at our parish, reliquae has been reserved, I always bow when in the sanctuary.

That said, this in no way has anything to do with a recognition of orders. When I enter a Catholic church, I will bow there, too.

Jon
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LCMS parishes here have tabernacles/ chapels to the blessed Sacrament. The parish church at Concordia-Bronxville went from a tabernacle on a retable above the altar to a side chapel well after my time.
 
JonNC said:
You rarely will find an adoration chapel, not that said is doctrinally forbidden. Lutherans tend to practice Eucharistc adoration within the sacramental act. However, when I know that, at our parish, reliquae has been reserved, I always bow when in the sanctuary.

That said, this in no way has anything to do with a recognition of orders. When I enter a Catholic church, I will bow there, too.

Jon
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Oh yes I know that the Catholic Church does not recognize the validity of Lutheran orders. This comes up quite a bit on the forum. So much so that I emailed the USCCB sometime ago to get clarification about that commission that keeps being referred to and was told that,’ yes, the Catholic and Lutheran members of the commission can and have affirm together that the Eucharist discloses the Real Presence – but that does not entail that we (the Catholics) recognize that the Lutherans have the real presence, so to speak, only that they believe themselves to have and that it did not represent official Catholic Church teaching. So, bottom line: no, a Lutheran cannot receive communion at a Catholic Mass; and, no, a Catholic is strongly discouraged from receiving at a Lutheran service. ’

I was just making inquiries to find out what Lutheran’s do believe about their Eucharist. I am thinking that the validity of orders would not be the only obstacle to inter communion. The Catholic Church teaches of the remaining, enduring Presence of Christ. The worship of the Eucharist even outside of Mass…processions, Adoration Chapels. And of course, the sacrificial worship of the Eucharist in the Mass… Is there a clear teaching from the Lutheran Church on this or is it different from parishes to parishes as was alluded to?
 
Lutherans are like the generic brand… They say they’re the same thing and do the exactly the same…but in reality they don’t. It’s just a watered down version. Yet, we still classify them as relatively related. Stop claiming apostolic succession and valid holy orders.
 
=johnnyc176;12186213]Oh yes I know that the Catholic Church does not recognize the validity of Lutheran orders. This comes up quite a bit on the forum. So much so that I emailed the USCCB sometime ago to get clarification about that commission that keeps being referred to and was told that,’ yes, the Catholic and Lutheran members of the commission can and have affirm together that the Eucharist discloses the Real Presence – but that does not entail that we (the Catholics) recognize that the Lutherans have the real presence, so to speak, only that they believe themselves to have and that it did not represent official Catholic Church teaching. So, bottom line: no, a Lutheran cannot receive communion at a Catholic Mass; and, no, a Catholic is strongly discouraged from receiving at a Lutheran service.
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Agreed, that this is the current circumstance. Of course, I have certitude that our Eucharist is the true body and blood of Christ.
I was just making inquiries to find out what Lutheran’s do believe about their Eucharist. I am thinking that the validity of orders would not be the only obstacle to inter communion. The Catholic Church teaches of the remaining, enduring Presence of Christ. The worship of the Eucharist even outside of Mass…processions, Adoration Chapels. And of course, the sacrificial worship of the Eucharist. Is there a clear teaching from the Lutheran Church on this or is it different from parishes to parishes as was alluded to?
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You touch here on a couple of the differences, most notably how we understand the sacrifice of the Mass. Processions are not part of our tradition, though adoration outside the sacramental act would not be prohibited.

Jon
 
johnnyc176 said:
Oh yes I know that the Catholic Church does not recognize the validity of Lutheran orders. This comes up quite a bit on the forum. So much so that I emailed the USCCB sometime ago to get clarification about that commission that keeps being referred to and was told that,’ yes, the Catholic and Lutheran members of the commission can and have affirm together that the Eucharist discloses the Real Presence – but that does not entail that we (the Catholics) recognize that the Lutherans have the real presence, so to speak, only that they believe themselves to have and that it did not represent official Catholic Church teaching. So, bottom line: no, a Lutheran cannot receive communion at a Catholic Mass; and, no, a Catholic is strongly discouraged from receiving at a Lutheran service. ’

I was just making inquiries to find out what Lutheran’s do believe about their Eucharist. I am thinking that the validity of orders would not be the only obstacle to inter communion. The Catholic Church teaches of the remaining, enduring Presence of Christ. The worship of the Eucharist even outside of Mass…processions, Adoration Chapels. And of course, the sacrificial worship of the Eucharist. Is there a clear teaching from the Lutheran Church on this or is it different from parishes to parishes as was alluded to?
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In general, Lutherans do not process with the Blessed Sacrament except on Holy Thursday and the Feast of Corpus Christi
The Feast of Corpus Christi (Latin for Body of Christ), also known as Corpus Domini, is a Latin Rite liturgical solemnity celebrating the tradition and belief in the body and blood of Jesus Christ and his Real Presence in the Eucharist. It emphasizes the joy of the institution of the Eucharist, which was observed on Holy Thursday in the somber atmosphere of the nearness of Good Friday.
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In the present Roman Missal, the feast is designated the solemnity of The Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ.[1] It is also celebrated in some Anglican, Lutheran, and Old Catholic Churches that hold similar beliefs regarding the Real Presence.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Christi_(feast
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JonNC said:
You need to be clear here> What Lutheran synods practice Corpus Christi Processions, and how are they done on Maundy Thursday?

Jon
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After the Mass of the Last Supper, the altar is stripped of all paraments, crucifix/ statues are removed or kept in the Lenten coverings; candles, everything is moved out of the chancel. Finally the Reserved Sacrament is taken from the ambry and following the processional cross is moved to a side chapel or sacristy. People stay and pray for hours after the Mass is over; its called the Watch.

Manual on the Liturgy : Lutheran Book of Worship

Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ falls after Holy Trinity Sunday and even for Catholics, is not considered a major holy day. That’s how Martin Luther viewed in “The Adoration of the Sacrament” by urging eucharistic adoration outside of the Mass but no one should be forced to participate. At the time of Luther, these processions through the streets were common. Not like today.

I remember the Lutheran Liturgical conferences at Valparaiso University [LCMS] with Chaplet of the Blessed Sacrament. Also recall seminarians/ professors praying.
O Theotokos (Mother of God), the second heaven
You are the honoured Mother of the Light.
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From sunrise to sunset
the faithful offer you praises
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You are the bright and unchanging flower
and the mother who remained a virgin
for the Father chose you
and the Holy Spirit overshadowed you
and the Son deigned to take flesh from you.
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Wherefore, ask the Lord
to give salvation to the world
which He created
and to deliver it from all tribulations
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Let us praise the Lord
and sing to Him a new song
now and forever and from all ages to all ages
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Amen.
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EvangelCatholic said:
After the Mass of the Last Supper, the altar is stripped of all paraments, crucifix/ statues are removed or kept in the Lenten coverings; candles, everything is moved out of the chancel. Finally the Reserved Sacrament is taken from the ambry and following the processional cross is moved to a side chapel or sacristy. People stay and pray for hours after the Mass is over; its called the Watch.

Manual on the Liturgy : Lutheran Book of Worship

Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ falls after Holy Trinity Sunday and even for Catholics, is not considered a major holy day. That’s how Martin Luther viewed in “The Adoration of the Sacrament” by urging eucharistic adoration outside of the Mass but no one should be forced to participate. At the time of Luther, these processions through the streets were common. Not like today.

I remember the Lutheran Liturgical conferences at Valparaiso University [LCMS] with Chaplet of the Blessed Sacrament. Also recall seminarians/ professors praying.
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Agreed. I wonder if our Catholic siblings recognize this as a Corpus Christi Procession.

Jon
 
I’d like the take the term “parents” as more fitting…since ya know and all, you came from us. 🙂
 
JonNC said:
We wouldn’t claim Luther had authority to form a separate Church. We confess the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Jon
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So you say, and yet Lutherans are “not” part of the Catholic Church, neither are evangelical episcopalians/anglicans, though all three groups like to claim being a part of Christ’s Catholic Church. They aren’t and never have been.
 
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