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I moved to the LCMS 9 years ago. Most of my family remains ELCA, so I direct my criticism at the leadership of the ELCA, and not its members. It is sad that the leadership would even consider this direction, and I am suspect that it will lead to fracturing in that body. My prayers are for my Lutheran brothers and sisters in the ELCA, that they will listen to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Jon
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gcnuss
Guest
There are those of us who pray fervently that this will not happen.
Pastor,
What is your sense as to what will happen in the ELCA should this happen? Is the synod headed for a serious fracturing?
Jon
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Yes, from my reading of the article it is not a done deal either way and the ELCA need our prayers.
May they be open to the Holy Spirit.
God bless
S
sdelane2
Guest
I don’t consider myself an overly zealous or emotional person, but, I must say, this move by the Episcopal Church is simply outrageous. I love my homosexual friends deeply, but I would never condone their actions.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
gcnuss I just noticed the ELCA next to your religion. I know you would probably not want to think about this right now and will worry about it when you cross that bridge, but as a Pastor in the ECLA church, what would be your response if they follow the Episcopalian Church in this? If you don’t mind me asking.
God bless you
G
gcnuss
Guest
You are right that I’m not yet seriously contemplating what path I might take. At the same time, my gut reaction is that I would stay and be a voice (among many others) crying in the wilderness, calling the church to repentance. I have publicly stated, in our Synod Assembly, that if these proposals pass and become church policy I will be forced to preach, teach, and confess in opposition to ELCA policy.
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Well I pray that it is a decision that you wont have to make but if it is forced upon you I pray that you will be giving the strength to combat this.
God bless you
Pastor Gary,
I join my prayers with Roman_Catholic that the Holy Spirit strengthens you in His service. Please know that many of your fellow Lutherans in the LCMS and other synods are praying for our brethren in the ELCA.
Jon
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
The ELCA believes:
abortion: “[opposes] laws that deny access to safe and affordable services for morally justifiable abortions,”
women’s ordination: female clergy are permitted/10% of synod bishops are female
Eucharist: open communion
**inter-communion relationships with: ** The Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ, United Church of Christ, etc.
**Statement on sexuality: ** vague, only that sex belongs within the confines of marriage
**reputation: ** liberal as heck, divided sharply by blue states and red states, divided morally
We need not rehash what the Episcopal Church believes. Just look at the ELCA and the TEC and you’ll see that ELCA is just a few strides behind TEC and TEC is extended a hand in the marathon to help catch them up. Perhaps if the ELCA goes with the Episcopal Church and admits that it’s embracing that full-on liberal social justice gospel that the TEC believe in, then maybe it’ll be a good thing. It’ll shake the good fruit from the tree and send more of the conservatives to the LCMS and Catholic Church and ACNA, etc.
abortion: “[opposes] laws that deny access to safe and affordable services for morally justifiable abortions,”
women’s ordination: female clergy are permitted/10% of synod bishops are female
Eucharist: open communion
**inter-communion relationships with: ** The Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ, United Church of Christ, etc.
**Statement on sexuality: ** vague, only that sex belongs within the confines of marriage
**reputation: ** liberal as heck, divided sharply by blue states and red states, divided morally
We need not rehash what the Episcopal Church believes. Just look at the ELCA and the TEC and you’ll see that ELCA is just a few strides behind TEC and TEC is extended a hand in the marathon to help catch them up. Perhaps if the ELCA goes with the Episcopal Church and admits that it’s embracing that full-on liberal social justice gospel that the TEC believe in, then maybe it’ll be a good thing. It’ll shake the good fruit from the tree and send more of the conservatives to the LCMS and Catholic Church and ACNA, etc.
J
Jon_Hus
Guest
Pastor,
My wife and I left our local ELCA church in 1999 after many years of service and knowing the pastor since my high school days. I would fill-in for the pastor from time to time in the pulpit and other things. We gave up leadership positions and many friends. It was not an easy thing to do but I have no regreats.
Our issues with the ELCA and the local church and the direction it was moving in really didn’t have anything to do with the present situation. I’m a person who has to see everything spelled out in writing. I understand belief in an unseen (faith) but there has to be a historical paper trail somewhere. For Lutherans, it is the writings of Luther and his contempories and the Book of the Concord and the Bible. I took the thelogical temperature of my local church using those resources and found that the patient had a serious ailment.
I understand and appreciate your feelings, but the old saying “hope for the best, prepare for the worse” comes to mind. The question before the body will pass, it’s not “if”, rather it’s “when.” The ELCA is the ship, the Liberals are the ocean and you are one of the bilge pumps. A few, well placed rivets have popped. There is no dry dock for a 1000 miles, sorry to say. Even if the repair is made, someone will sneek on-board and set fire to the cargo. The ironic thing is all of the water necessary to extinguish the fire is inches away, but the equipment needed to use the water has been neglected for so long it cannot be used.
take care,
Jon
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wanner47
Guest
I’m very glad I left when I did.
Pastor Gary, you have my prayers as well.
Pastor Gary, you have my prayers as well.
P
PA650
Guest
Sad to hear. Yet, as JonNC stated, with the liberal element in the ELCA, such an action as the title of this thread states was bound to happen at some point.
I was a member of the ELCA when “Call to Common Mission” was approved. Little did I know then how closely the ELCA would align itself with TEC in terms of these issues. If this comes about, there is one thing confessional Lutherans in the ELCA need to know: that we who are not ELCA hold for them our love, prayers and support. We are here for them should they want to join us, should they want to form a new body, or should they wish to stay and fight to prevent ELCA from meaning Evangelical Liberal Church in America.
Jon
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
LOL
H
Hesychios
Guest
If the relationship between TEC and the ELCA become much closer we might see a merger in the offing.
That’s just what TEC needs, fresh blood.
That’s just what TEC needs, fresh blood.
In many ways, they already are under “Call to Common Mission”. I think the only thing that has held the ELCA back, compared to TEC, is a far more conservative laity, and many confessional clergy, like Pastor Gary.
Pastor Gary’s path may not be easy. 30 years ago, my dad, who was rather outspoken against the liberal trends even then, both theological and political, had a difficult time getting a call after resigning from the church I grew up in. I don’t know what things are like now, or where he is, and my experience is admittedly anecdotal, but little would surprise me.
We can enjoy a little chuckle over my play on words, but if this comes to pass, for many ELCA Lutherans, it will be anything but a laughing matter. I grew up LCA/ELCA, most of my family remains so, and it breaks my heart.
Jon
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
You make the TEC sound like some kind of monster that I have to fear will come out from underneath my son’s bed and eat him…
God bless you
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GKC
Guest
It devoured official orthodox Anglicanism in this country,You make the TEC sound like some kind of monster that I have to fear will come out from underneath my son’s bed and eat him…
God bless you
GKC
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