Lutherans, Mary, and her perpetual virginity

[steido01]

It is unfortunate when Lutherans ignore their own teachings. Sadly, this phenomena not limited to my own LCMS. I see Nancy Pelosi is still receiving communion in the Roman Catholic Church, for example, despite her happy willingness to support the murder of unborn and partially-born babies.

That Mary was ever-virgin is the historical stance of Lutherans and is clearly stated in the Lutheran Confessions. Lutherans ought to believe it. I personally do.

It is, however, a matter of adiaphora – “of indifferent things” that do not affect the status of one’s soul before God. Whether or not Mary had other children after Jesus is irrelevant to Christ’s work on the Cross. So individual Lutherans do have some Christian freedom to depart from orthodoxy in this regard (as with most of the pious Marian beliefs), though unorthodox positions should never be taught publicly, much less by a pastor!

 

[HeDa]

Mary is seen as "the mother of Jesus (the human body) " in most protestant denominations. This is very different from the Catholic and Orthodox who see Mary as “the virgin Mary, Mother of God”.

What I find helpful when the importance of Mary is attacked, is to say to various protestants that they read the Gospels with a focus on Mary and also the relationship between Mary and Jesus. Mary´s last words are “Do whatever He tells you.” and that is from the wedding in Cana. After that it is a lot easier to answer their questions and read Luke 1 with them.

 

[steido01]

Lutherans absolutely agree that Mary is the Theotokos. That is not negotiable.

 

[AugustTherese]

Lutherans absolutely agree that Mary is the Theotokos. That is not negotiable

in most protestant denominations

And, yes, most pious, Confessional Lutherans confess to believe in this Dogma. However, not every Lutheran is a Confessional Lutheran.

 

[AugustTherese]

I see Nancy Pelosi is still receiving communion in the Roman Catholic Church, for example, despite her happy willingness to support the murder of unborn and partially-born babies

Apparently one cannot talk about the Lutheran ‘doctrine’ of ‘total depravity’. My bad.

 

[HeDa]

It is one thing what is actually written in their church documents and what the majority of the Lutherans or other protestants believe and say. I have never heard a protestant say that “Mary is the mother of God.” but they have all referenced Mary as “Mary mother of Jesus.”. The Lutherans come is all “shapes and forms” regarding their beliefs.

 

[joeybaggz]

Hi, my name is Mary, my first lover was the God of all Eternity, the Creator of all, and I bore his son. My first lover was a perfect filet mignon. Now, I want a Slim Jim???

I don’t see it.

 

[JonNC]

steido01:

That Mary was ever-virgin is the historical stance of Lutherans and is clearly stated in the Lutheran Confessions. Lutherans ought to believe it. I personally do.

I never met a single protestant that said this !! Honest…

Another reason not to use the term Protestant when referring to teachings and practice.

While one cannot be certain of all Anglicans, the teaching of Continuing Anglicans is that she is ever-Virgin

 

[JonNC]

steido01:

Lutherans absolutely agree that Mary is the Theotokos. That is not negotiable

in most protestant denominations

And, yes, most pious, Confessional Lutherans confess to believe in this Dogma. However, not every Lutheran is a Confessional Lutheran.

I’ve never heard any Lutheran Pastor or theologian dispute he Holy Theotokos. That’s undisputed doctrine.

 

[JonNC]

Lutherans absolutely agree that Mary is the Theotokos. That is not negotiable.

On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.
http://bookofconcord.org/sd-person.php

It still strikes me as odd that some Lutherans will dissect this sentence into doctrine on the first part, and adiaphoron on the second.

 

[AugustTherese]

I’ve never heard any Lutheran Pastor or theologian dispute he Holy Theotokos

Go to an ELCA community.

 

[steido01]

And, yes, most pious, Confessional Lutherans confess to believe in this Dogma. However, not every Lutheran is a Confessional Lutheran.

It is one thing what is actually written in their church documents and what the majority of the Lutherans or other protestants believe and say. I have never heard a protestant say that “Mary is the mother of God.” but they have all referenced Mary as “Mary mother of Jesus.”. The Lutherans come is all “shapes and forms” regarding their beliefs.

Find me a single Lutheran – anywhere, even on the insanity that is the Internet, where one can find anything-- who denies that Mary is the Theotokos.

 

[steido01]

You should meet more Lutherans.

 

[steido01]

The Lutheran Confessions promulgates this idea that humanity is totally depraved. So, isn’t Nancy Pelosi just living up to her title, according to Lutheran teaching?

I’ve been over this with you. The Lutheran acknowledgment of the human condition is not license to sin. If Nancy were in my church body, she’d merit the ban. We’ve excommunicated for less.

 

[AugustTherese]

If Nancy were in my church body, she’d merit the ban. We’ve excommunicated for less.

Lutheran Confessions teach that Holy Communion forgives mortal sins. So, what would you excommunicate her for?

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

I’ve never heard any Lutheran Pastor or theologian dispute he Holy Theotokos

Go to an ELCA community.

I was raised there. I never heard anyone, in Church or at college, pastors or professors, dispute that Mary is the mother of God

 

[AugustTherese]

I was raised there. I never heard anyone, in Church or at college, pastors or professors, dispute that Mary is the mother of God

That’s wonderful! All we can do here is banter over anecdotal evidence. Do you think this ELCA Lutheran pastor disputes the Dogma?:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[steido01]

Lutheran Confessions teach that Holy Communion forgives mortal sins. So, what would you excommunicate her for?

You can stop trying to tell me what my own Confessions mean. From Ap. XI: “Excommunication is also pronounced against the openly wicked - those who live in manifest vices, fornication, adultery, etc. and the despisers of the Sacraments.” This would include those who live in open, continued, unrepentant support of murder.

Now, what reason does your communion give for allowing such people to continue communing while in such sin?

 

[steido01]

Go to an ELCA community.

I suffered through four years of very liberal ELCA college. I can assure you that Mary as Theotokos wasn’t disputed by even the most leftist Leftist there.

If anything, they highlight that point in defense of their feminism.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

I was raised there. I never heard anyone, in Church or at college, pastors or professors, dispute that Mary is the mother of God

That’s wonderful! All we can do here is banter over anecdotal evidence. Do you think this ELCA Lutheran pastor disputes the Dogma?:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

No idea. If she held to Lutheran orthodoxy, she wouldn’t be doing what the picture displays.
All I can say is I was catechized that to deny the Holy Theotokos was to question the Incarnation