Lutherans on Sin and Forgiveness....please help!

[fms]

Thank you Julie.

I do pray that the work that the Lord has started with you, continues with him and in him be ended.

The question is whether the Lutherans have valid Holy Orders (i.e. the Priesthood). Your belief does you no good if you do not have a Priest (unbroken succession from the Lord/Apostles) to consecrate the species.

 

[Izdaari]

I am not Lutheran, but I have heard this idea preached in other non-Catholic churches. I remember it being stated that our sins are “covered” by the Blood of Jesus, so that God does not see them. The Catholic Church, however, teaches that our sins are cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus. God sees them.

Lutherans here can answer your question, but I don’t think it is an exclusively Lutheran concept, because it is taught in other denominations.

I am not Lutheran, nor Catholic, but Pentecostal (Assemblies of God), and I too would say our sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ, not covered by it.

 

[jmtosh]

David in The Bible on sin and forgiveness…and he should know!

PSALM 32:1-2

Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD does not impute iniquity and in whose spirit there is no guile.

We need our sins to be forgiven, covered. We need God not to impute sin to us.

David says again in Psalm 51:1-2, 7

Have mercy upon me, O God, according to Thy loving kindness: according to the multitude of Thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity and cleanse me from my sin…Purge me with hyssop and I shall be clean: wash me and I shall be whiter than snow.

We need God’s mercy and grace. In other words we need not to get what we do deserve and need to get what we don’t deserve.

Hyssop is the shrub that Moses dipped in the Lamb’s blood and placed on the lintel and doorposts when the Lord passed by on the Passover. Any house without the blood lost their firstborn. Moses also dipped hyssop in the blood and sprinkled the book of the Law and the congregation of Israel with Hebrews 9, 20-22. Hyssop is connected with blood of sacrifice.

In the beginning God clothed Adam and Eve with skins. Blood was shed to cover their nakedness and shame before a Holy God Genesis 3:21. We need God’s covering for our sin. We need his acceptable sacrifice. His righteousness.

The Apostle Paul says in Romans:
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:for there is no difference.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth, a propitiation (appeasement / absorption) through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus. ROMANS 3:21-26

That is really good news!

In Romans 4 Paul even quotes Psalm 32 **Blessed is the man to whom the
Lord does not impute sin. **

Abraham was fully persuaded that God was able to perform what God had promised. He was not weak in faith but as Christ said “he saw my day and was glad”. The scriptures say “Abraham believed God and God counted it to him for righteousness”. Genesis 15:6

And Paul confirms that God imputed it to him for righteousness in the context of sins forgiven. “Now it was not written for his sake alone , that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification” ROMANS 4:22-25.

Therefore being justified by faith we have **peace with God **through our Lord Jesus Christ…Romans 5:1

For He has made Him sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made **the righteousness of God in Him. **

Jude 23: Now unto Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you faultless before His throne with exceeding joy. To the only wise God our Saviour be glory and Majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.

God has provided for you a covering for sin. He is able to completely cleanse you from ALL sin. If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from ALL sin. 1 John 1:7

We may not be perfect here below. Though we strive to obey our Lord and Saviour we still sin. My little children, these things I write to you so that you do not sin. And if any man sins we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

God has made the way for your sins to be blotted out as they were paid for in full on the cross when God delivered up His own Son, and the Righteousness of Jesus to be imputed to you when He was raised from the dead and seated at His own right hand.

As far as the East is from the West so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 103:12

Who is a God like unto Thee that pardons iniquity? and passes by the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He retains not His anger forever , because He delights in mercy.
He will turn again, He will have compassion upon us; He will subdue our iniquities; and Thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, the mercy to Abraham which Thou has sworn to our fathers from the days of old.

So be greatly encouraged -** In God’s sight you are clean for Jesus’ sake**. You can have strong confidence in God’s promises and Word that He will do what He has promised.

God bless you.

 

[gcnuss]

The question is whether the Lutherans have valid Holy Orders (i.e. the Priesthood). Your belief does you no good if you do not have a Priest (unbroken succession from the Lord/Apostles) to consecrate the species.

Hi fms,

I recognize that you are presenting Catholic teaching on this subject. From a Lutheran perspective, however, we do not believe that Catholic doctrine (or dogma) regarding apostolic succession governs the validity of our sacraments. I don’t know where we go from here as I am as convinced of the Lutheran position as you are of the Catholic position.

In any case, God’s blessings to you.

 

[Tomster]

Our sins are no longer seen by God, because Christ’s righteousness has been credited to us, so when God looks at those of us who have accepted His son,He sees,the righteousness of Christ, because we have been washed in His blood, and the slate has been wiped clean.We no longer have any sin,past, present, nor future, and .because we no longer have any sin whatsoever does not give us a license to willfully sin, because willfully sinning after you know the truth has consequences,and you will be given over to that sin, and it will destroy you, because there is no more sacrifice for you.

I hope that this has helped.

Can anyone else see the contraditions in the above statement?

 

[Erich]

The differences between Lutheran Eucharist and Catholic Eucharist primarily boil down to an issue of semantics. Lutherans do not believe that the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is merely symbolic…it IS our Savior’s body and blood, given for the forgiveness of our sins.

I know that the different branches of Lutheranism have different practices regarding the Lord’s Supper (e.g. LCMS will not commune ELCA), but do they all have the same beliefs regarding (for example) whether or not the bread and wine remain Jesus’ Body and Blood at the conclusion of the liturgy? If no branches of Lutheranism teach that the bread and wine, once consecrated, remain Jesus’ Body and Blood after the liturgy is over, I’d say that’s a difference of more than just semantics. It would also explain why there is no tradition (that I’m aware of) of Eucharistic Adoration among Lutherans.

 

[Erich]

From a Lutheran perspective, however, we do not believe that Catholic doctrine (or dogma) regarding apostolic succession governs the validity of our sacraments. I don’t know where we go from here as I am as convinced of the Lutheran position as you are of the Catholic position.

By what authority do Lutheran pastors claim their title and position, and who gave them this authority?

From By What Authority?
What is a “pastor?” The word is from the Latin, in fact, and it means - quite simply - “shepherd.”
…
The term “pastor” is also interwoven with the biblical term “overseer,” or “elder” - in the Greek, episkopos, or “bishop.” We see this in St. Paul’s farewell discourse to the elders of Ephesus: “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.” (Acts 20:28) There is the connection: the “episkopoi” of the church at Ephesus have guardianship over “the flock” of God’s people.

Further, to be a “pastor” (shepherd, overseer, elder) is also to be an “ambassador” for Christ (c.f. 2 Cor. 5:18ff).

This is no light responsibility, and Scripture tells us that this position is never self-appointed. That is, no man can merely take it upon himself, of his own initiative, to start shepherding God’s flock: “And one does not take the honor upon himself, but he is called by God, just as Aaron was.” (Heb. 5:4)
…
The same, of course, goes for “ambassadors.” The dictionary defines the word to mean, an “authorized messenger or representative” - thus, an ambassador must be sent. In fact, the word “apostle” is Greek for “sent one.” To this we can add the words of St. Paul, who says that preachers must be “sent.” (Rom. 10:15)

Now, what does “to be sent” mean, except that someone in authority over you has conferred the privilege and authority upon you? In fact, it goes without saying that the one who confers the authority must be superior in authority to the one being commissioned, since no one can confer that which he does not possess himself.

In other words, a congregation’s vote cannot suffice, Scripturally speaking, to appoint a man as “pastor,” since the congregation (of inferior authority) cannot confer superior authority upon a man.
I wonder if you will be as convinced of the Lutheran position after reading By What Authority? in its entirety as you are now.

 

[Juliebug108]

I know that the different branches of Lutheranism have different practices regarding the Lord’s Supper (e.g. LCMS will not commune ELCA), but do they all have the same beliefs regarding (for example) whether or not the bread and wine remain Jesus’ Body and Blood at the conclusion of the liturgy? If no branches of Lutheranism teach that the bread and wine, once consecrated, remain Jesus’ Body and Blood after the liturgy is over, I’d say that’s a difference of more than just semantics. It would also explain why there is no tradition (that I’m aware of) of Eucharistic Adoration among Lutherans.

I’ll provide a couple links with some more info for you:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist_in_the_Lutheran_Church

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=422

Also, according to the LCMS, they have this to say about post-liturgy bread and wine:

C. Post-Communion Reverence
The consecrated elements which remain after all have communed should be treated with reverence. This reverence has been expressed by Lutherans in various ways. Some have followed the ancient practice of burning the bread and pouring the wine upon the earth. Others have established a basin and drain --piscina-- specifically for disposal of the wine. The elders or altar guild may also return the consecrated bread and wine to specific containers for future sacramental use, or the elders and pastor can consume the remaining elements. All of these practices should be understood properly. The church is not, thereby, conferring upon the elements some abiding status apart from their use in the Lord’s Supper itself.

The reasons why LCMS will not commune with ELCA has to do with larger theological differences, and really nothing to do with Communion itself. Lutherans do not believe that the body and blood disappear after service is over…once consecrated, the body and blood are present within the elements. There is no undoing that. Hence, this is why they are handled with reverence.

Peace and blessings,
Julie

 

[fms]

Dear Julie and Pastor Gary,

I am very moved how you end your posts i.e. with Peace and Blessings. Thank you. May Our Lord’s own Peace, which the world cannot give, be with you now and forever.

Cardinal Newman famously said that to be steeped in history is to cease to be Protestant.

The Lord himself said the gates of Hell will never prevail against his Church. So there must be the in the world the Lord’s Church from the Lord’s time till now to the end of the world.

For me that truth that it is the Catholic Church is far more clearer than the noon day sun yet I also know that Faith is a gift and the Lord said they have eyes but do not see and ears but do not hear.

May the Lord’s own prayer come to fulfillment in us his children: that we may all be one as He and His father are One.

 

[JonNC]

I know that the different branches of Lutheranism have different practices regarding the Lord’s Supper (e.g. LCMS will not commune ELCA), but do they all have the same beliefs regarding (for example) whether or not the bread and wine remain Jesus’ Body and Blood at the conclusion of the liturgy? If no branches of Lutheranism teach that the bread and wine, once consecrated, remain Jesus’ Body and Blood after the liturgy is over, I’d say that’s a difference of more than just semantics. It would also explain why there is no tradition (that I’m aware of) of Eucharistic Adoration among Lutherans.

Actually, the opposite might be true, to a degree. What Lutherans do teach is that the Lord’s intention is for us to eat and drink. That’s not to say that we don’t practice Eucharistic adoration, though. We do, but within the sacramental act. We also commune the sick and shut-ins with the reliquae.

It is not a simple matter of when is it the Lord’s body and blood, and when does it cease to be, but is a matter of Christ says it is His body and blood, and it is for the purpose of eat and drinking.

Jon

.

 

[diorthosis]

So for the past several weeks, the pastoral staff at my LCMS church has been saying some things that I just do not agree with or believe. The pastors keep stating that “Our sins are hidden from God,” and that because of Christ’s sacrifice/death/resurrection “God no longer sees our sin.” They also have stated that “God sees us as His perfect and forgiven children, not as sinners.”
:dts:

I’ve really been struggling with this…so much so that it is playing a huge role in why I am researching the Catholic Church so much lately. As it turns out, my beliefs are much more in line with the CC than they are with the LCMS (or even ELCA).

I do not believe that ANYTHING is hidden from God, nor do I believe that “God no longer sees our sin.” This make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. If this were the case, then why do Lutherans practice baptism, Holy Communion, and confession/absolution? This seems like a complete contradiction to me because if God no longer saw our sin (or if our sins were now “hidden” from God) then there would logically be no need for any of these sacraments.

I have been Lutheran my entire life (born and raised), and I have NEVER heard this before. I’m not even sure if these types of statements are in agreement with the official position of the LCMS. Can my fellow Lutherans please help me here? What are your thoughts about these types of statements??? Is this even Biblical?!?

Peace and blessings,
Julie

God dealt with ALL sins, once for all, at Calvary when Christ bore them all in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24; see also Is. 53:5,6,11). He not only died there FOR our sins, but He died TO them, once for all (Rom. 6:10). Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:21 that He (God) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin {to be} sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When one personally believes in Christ His sacrificial work on the cross is applied to the believer in full. And the believer is now seen in God’s eyes as having died TO sin, once for all, with Christ, and raised to new life with Christ resurrected. That’s why Paul asked the question in Rom. 6:2: “How shall we who died TO sin (i.e., with Christ) still live in it?”

God still sees when the believer sins, but He doesn’t take them into account. He will, however, discipline His believing child because of sin (Heb.12:6), but not condemn him (Romans 8:1) since Christ bore them all in His body on the cross and He died TO them, once for all. And the believer has been fully redeemed through Christ’s blood. This is called salvation by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9).

The difference is that, based on what is revealed in the Scriptures, we understand Christ’s sacrificial work on the cross to have been substitutionary. Christ bore ALL our sins in His body on the cross and died “for” and “to” them, once for all, in our stead. In other words, God dealt with (all) our sins judicially and once for all through the Person of Jesus Christ and His sacrificial work on our behalf. Therefore the divine issue, since Calvary, is not sins but rather personal belief or unbelief in the good news (gospel) concerning Christ and our sins (see John 3:14-18; 5:24; 8:24). Whereas the CC views the cross as only propitiatory. That is, having only appeased God for sins. Which (it is believed) is presently perpetuated in the Eucharist. Therefore, they believe, actual sins must still be dealt with sacramentally for forgiveness.

 

[fms]

Which (it is believed) is presently perpetuated in the Eucharist.

Made present not perpetuated. It is the same sacrifice only now in an unbloody manner.

Do not forget the Lord’s command, ‘Do this in memory of me’.

Also your post made it sound like one can sin (not repent and be forgiven) and not be damned so long as they believe.

Just amazing!

diorthorsis (religion: non) you talk about scripture and these same scriptures speak of Jesus forgiving sin and giving power to his apostles to forgive or retain sins.

 

[GraceAndMercy]

Hello, I am a convert from Lutheran Church - baptized in LCMS, LCMS high school and LCA member (LCA no longer exists, I believe it merged with the ELC). This was one of my reasons for converting as well, although there were many. It is my understanding, and I was taught, that Luther taught that we sinners are like “cow dung” and Christ’s death covers our sins like a cow is covered with snow - the sins are covered so God “does not see them”. This is a fundamental difference in thinking. I was listening to EWTN on TV, to Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN Live (you would like EWTN) and he explained very clearly how the Catholic Church believes that people are fundamentally good, not fundamentally sinful and he mentioned the cow dung example I had heard in high school! You will find that priests have a way of explaining all the details that you might have sensed were missing or address the inconsistencies that you may feel limits the Lutheran doctrine - it’s good, but I always felt something was missing. The Catholic explanations are so much more rational and complete. I hope this helps.

 

[GraceAndMercy]

Hello, I am a convert from Lutheran Church - baptized in LCMS, LCMS high school and LCA member (LCA no longer exists, I believe it merged with the ELC). This was one of my reasons for converting as well, although there were many. It is my understanding, and I was taught, that Luther taught that we sinners are like “cow dung” and Christ’s death covers our sins like a cow is covered with snow - the sins are covered so God “does not see them”. This is a fundamental difference in thinking. I was listening to EWTN on TV, to Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN Live (you would like EWTN) and he explained very clearly how the Catholic Church believes that people are fundamentally good, not fundamentally sinful and he mentioned the cow dung example I had heard in high school! You will find that priests have a way of explaining all the details that you might have sensed were missing or address the inconsistencies that you may feel limits the Lutheran doctrine - it’s good, but I always felt something was missing. The Catholic explanations are so much more rational and complete. I hope this helps.

To clarify, since this was written very quickly, I mean that people are born fundamentally good, created in the image of God, and then they sin, and Christ’s death takes away that sin, not "covers"it while it is still there. As you note, there are many differences that I see as semantic and my former Lutheran friends and family are vehemently constantly telling me are not semantic, although it seems so easy to see to me that they are. Another example of this is that they continue to insist that I worship the Blessed Mother. I try to explain, no, Our Lady is alive and in heaven and the Bible clearly states that the prayers of the righteous are listened to by God so we ask her to pray for us much as we would ask a sister or mother on Earth to pray for us but they insist this is worship. But then they don’t believe that the communion of saints means that those in Heaven can hear our prayers (despite Revelation telling us that the saints rejoice in Heaven based on our actions meaning they have to know about them). I have given up talking with them. I think it’s because they were so scared by their teachers, of committing idolatry. Also having skipped much of Church history and a lot of philosophy. But I digress, sorry. I recommend reading about the Church fathers and do tune in to EWTN and listen to some of the programs. God bless you,

 

[diorthosis]

Made present not perpetuated. It is the same sacrifice only now in an unbloody manner.

Which is “perpetuated.” In other words, it’s still not finished. According to your catechism it’s viewed as a (continual) propitiatory sacrifice.

Do not forget the Lord’s command, ‘Do this in memory of me’.

I do it in remembrance of Him. That is, what He did, what He accomplished, once for all, for me.

Also your post made it sound like one can sin (not repent and be forgiven) and not be damned so long as they believe. Just amazing!

The Apostolic message: Acts 10:43; 13:38; Col. 1:14. Did not Christ “put away” sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb. 9:26)? Did Peter not say that He bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), and did not Paul testify to the fact that He was made sin (our sins) on our behalf that we (who believe) would become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor. 5:21, the living Christ)? I agree that this is all quite amazing and many just can’t believe it.

I did not intend to imply that believers can sin with impunity. All sins have their immediate, natural and societal consequences. And I did point out that God Himself disciplines His children for the purpose of godliness. But what was removed in Christ was the eternal consequence of all sins for the one who believes in Him (John 5:24). That’s what the cross is all about. He bore them and died to them, once for all. He being the ultimate sin sacrifice. They weren’t His sins, they were ours. The issue now, in respect to eternal consequences, is to believe or not believe (John 3:14-18).

 

[Bill_Pick]

1 John 2:12
I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Luke 6:35-38;42
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” … How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

When we are in Christ, that is, when we repent of our old sinful life and believe in Christ, we are a new creation, and our old sins are truly forgiven! We are washed in the blood of the Lamb!
But, we must not just be those that say that they believe, we must be those that LIVE as they believe!!!
We must forgive others, we must love others, we must stop with the petty grudges and hatred of other people!!

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
(1 John 4:20)

Yes, the real problem is that so many want forgiveness simply because they went and confessed some sins to a guy in a box, but they refuse to unconditionally love their neighbor.

Jesus taught this:
Mark 12: 28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Jesus called these “commandments” because the first one covers the first part of the ten commandments, which are all about GOD, and the second part of the ten Commandments are all about our neighbor.

Jesus wasn’t just speaking to pass the time or to hear Himself speak, but He spoke something that we ALL need desperately to hear!!!

If you continue through this life with malice and hatred toward others, and im talking about the little nit-picking stuff that gets into the heart, like prejudices, and hatred toward politicians and hatred toward the next door neighbor that you cant stand, or that family member that you wont speak with because they somehow “wronged” you… then how do you suppose that The Father in heaven will ever forgive you?

You have a lot of verse here but do you know who God is talking to ? In your first verse He is talking to to c hildren

 

[diorthosis]

You have a lot of verse here but do you know who God is talking to ? In your first verse He is talking to to c hildren

John’s not addressing physical children in 1 John 2:12, but spiritual children. The context is in respect to spiritual maturity: Little children, young men and fathers. The first truth new believers (“children”) in Christ must grasp is that their sins are forgiven them for His (Christ’s) name sake. For the sake of the One who bore them in His body and died to them, once for all, in their stead.

 

[Juliebug108]

Hello, I am a convert from Lutheran Church - baptized in LCMS, LCMS high school and LCA member (LCA no longer exists, I believe it merged with the ELC). This was one of my reasons for converting as well, although there were many. It is my understanding, and I was taught, that Luther taught that we sinners are like “cow dung” and Christ’s death covers our sins like a cow is covered with snow - the sins are covered so God “does not see them”. This is a fundamental difference in thinking. I was listening to EWTN on TV, to Fr. Mitch Pacwa on EWTN Live (you would like EWTN) and he explained very clearly how the Catholic Church believes that people are fundamentally good, not fundamentally sinful and he mentioned the cow dung example I had heard in high school! You will find that priests have a way of explaining all the details that you might have sensed were missing or address the inconsistencies that you may feel limits the Lutheran doctrine - it’s good, but I always felt something was missing. The Catholic explanations are so much more rational and complete. I hope this helps.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I’m glad to know that I am not alone in struggling with some of what the LCMS teaches. I am finding that much of what the CC teaches about justification and sanctification just makes more sense. I know we aren’t supposed to rely on our own understandings…but when something just “clicks” and makes itself clear to you…that’s got to be God’s grace, right?

Also, on a side note, I love EWTN! Especially Mother Angelica. I pray for her recovery I just watched her stations of the cross meditation from back in 1991, and she brought me to tears. Such a blessing. Anywho, thanks again for the response!

Peace and blessings,
Julie

 

[fms]

diorthosis,

You are digressing us from the topic of this thread but I wanted to make sure the readers of this thread know that you have misquoted the Catholic Church without providing proof.

Here are the quotations from our Catechism readily available on the web:

1366
The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper “on the night when he was betrayed,” [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.189

1367
The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner . . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."190

By the way your posts come across very confused…

 

[guanophore]

Our sins are no longer seen by God, because Christ’s righteousness has been credited to us, so when God looks at those of us who have accepted His son,He sees,the righteousness of Christ, because we have been washed in His blood, and the slate has been wiped clean.We no longer have any sin,past, present, nor future,

This statement contains a number of modern heresies. The idea that God no longer “sees” our sins is one. The fact that Jesus’ blood has paid the debt of our sins does not make them invisible to God.

Another is the notion of “crediting”. Those who have left the Apostolic faith have been wrongly taught that the “credit” given to us by God in Christ is not real or substantial - that we are only 'declared" holy, and not MADE holy. It is as if to say that the bookes are cooked, and a credit balance entered that does not really exist. This idea is not consistent with what the Apostles believed and taught.

and .because we no longer have any sin whatsoever does not give us a license to willfully sin, because willfully sinning after you know the truth has consequences,and you will be given over to that sin, and it will destroy you, because there is no more sacrifice for you.

This statement is not even internally consistent with itself! One can see with just common sense that it is self contradictory, even without the Word of God, which it also contradicts.

The nature of sin has not changed since Jesus died on the cross. Sin still separates humans from God.

I hope that this has helped.

Glad you are here at CAF, catherinepink, so that you might become better acquainted with what the Apostles believed and taught.

But to be truthful, the pandering of heresies is really not that helpful. It is good to bring them here, and we pray that you will leave here with Truth instead.