Lutherans Reject Easing Gay Clergy Rules

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Edwin1961

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Aug 13, 4:33 AM EDT

Lutherans Reject Easing Gay Clergy Rules
By RACHEL ZOLL
AP Religion Writer

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) – Gays and lesbians lashed out after the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America rejected a proposal that would have allowed them to serve as clergy in certain cases, saying they felt rejected by their own denomination.

The proposal was voted down Friday by delegates attending an ELCA national meeting. It would have affirmed the church ban on ordaining sexually active gays and lesbians but allowed exceptions for candidates in long-term relationships.

Goodsoil, a coalition of Lutheran groups advocating for full inclusion of gays, accused the church of “sacrificing (gays) on the altar of a false and ephemeral sense of unity.”

The Rev. G. Scott Cady of the New England Synod said rejecting gays who feel a call to ministry was tantamount to questioning the will of God.

“We have vacant pulpits and altars in congregations all over this country, We have people crying out for pastoral care,” he said. “The Holy Spirit has said, All right, here they are. Here they are.' Are we going to now say, Thanks Holy Spirit, but we prefer something else.’”

Delegates voted against the measure 503-490. The proposal needed a two-thirds majority to pass.

New Jersey Synod Bishop Roy Riley, president of the ELCA’s Council of Bishops, said the delegates accurately reflected the mood of the 4.9 million-member denomination.

“This church is not ready to make major changes in its ordination practices,” he said. “That was the crux, really.”

The gay ordination proposal and two others taken up at the meeting were based on years of work by a denominational task force on sexuality. Delegates overwhelmingly approved another of the panel’s proposals, affirming church unity despite deep differences over homosexuality.

A final proposal on blessing ceremonies for same-sex couples was changed before it was approved and its impact remained unclear.

The measure upheld a 1993 Council of Bishops statement which bans such blessings and expresses “trust” in pastors ministering to gays and lesbians. Despite the prohibitions in the statement, it is generally acknowledged that some Lutheran pastors have been presiding at these ceremonies without repercussions for years.

As debate on gay ordination began Friday, about 100 gay advocates wearing rainbow sashes walked silently to the front of the hall and stood in front of the stage where Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson was overseeing the meeting. They stood quietly and did not move for nearly two hours, dispersing only when the session ended.

During the debate, several delegates who believe the Bible condemns gay sex compared homosexuality to alcoholism or drug addiction - something that they should help fellow Christians overcome.

Louis Hesse of the Eastern Washington-Idaho Synod said those arguing for gay ordination had not made a convincing theological or scientific argument on why they were right.

“The case has not been made. I’ve heard a lot of talk about the Gospel here today and I’m beginning to wonder if I’m in the right church,” Hesse said. “A Gospel of full acceptance, accepting everyone the way they are, what does that say about sinfulness?”

Disagreement over what the Bible says about homosexuality has torn at Protestant denominations for years. The Episcopal Church consecrated its first openly gay bishop two years ago, and Anglicans worldwide are now struggling to remain unified - something conservative Lutherans noted in handouts to voters Friday.

Last month, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada voted against allowing pastors to decide whether to bless same-sex couples. The other major U.S. Lutheran body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, is staunchly conservative on gay issues.

The ELCA task force still has a major project ahead: It is scheduled to develop a statement on human sexuality that will be presented to denomination’s the 2009 meeting
 
“We have vacant pulpits and altars in congregations all over this country, We have people crying out for pastoral care,” he said. “The Holy Spirit has said, All right, here they are. Here they are.' Are we going to now say, Thanks Holy Spirit, but we prefer something else.’”
So the Catholic Church ALSO has vacant pulpits and altars BUT you don’t we us wanting to change what Christ set down to be the way HE wants His Church to be.
Also, I whole structure of The Church is to LET the Holy Spirit lead, NOT the other way around.
 
Thank God , the Lutherans have a little sense left, and some backbone to go with it. In this day and age of “Be anything you want to be, and I’ll approve of it”, this is really refreshing.
 
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Edwin1961:
So the Catholic Church ALSO has vacant pulpits and altars BUT you don’t we us wanting to change what Christ set down to be the way HE wants His Church to be.
Also, I whole structure of The Church is to LET the Holy Spirit lead, NOT the other way around.
Gee-I thought that the reason we had empty pulpits was becuase we didnt allow Priests to marry. Now some Lutherans say their pulpits are empty becuase they dont have homosexual clergy! So I guess the solution is married homosexual clergy?
 
They should go ahead and allow gay marriage – we’ll get some Catholic converts that way
 
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davy39:
Thank God , the Lutherans have a little sense left, and some backbone to go with it. In this day and age of “Be anything you want to be, and I’ll approve of it”, this is really refreshing.
:amen:
 
Surely the Lutherans voting on this issue are viewing what havoc it has caused among the Anglicans AND the Catholics. They were very prudent, but don’t overlook the fact that there was nearly a 50/50 vote here. Seems to me that Satan is well aware of the tactic to divide and conquer. Similar polls among Catholics prove what a long way their lobbying has brought them, and how much people are willing to overlook for the sake of a few.
 
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iserve:
Surely the Lutherans voting on this issue are viewing what havoc it has caused among the Anglicans AND the Catholics.
You’re right, it’s an issue they have to address because of what happened in the Episcopal church. The Catholic church can have a gay priest since we have priestly celibacy, except for the crossover priests from other faiths. The Lutheran church does not require celibacy however, thus a gay priest can become a major issue, a la the Episcopal controversy.

There might be a compromise position that would allow gay priests with a vow of celibacy, but I don’t know if they’ve even addressed it in that way. While I don’t want to see practicing gays in the role of priesthood, I do have at least mixed feelings about excluding them from that life of service to God if they can be celibate and that is their true calling.

Peace,
 
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ncjohn:
While I don’t want to see practicing gays in the role of priesthood, I do have at least mixed feelings about excluding them from that life of service to God if they can be celibate and that is their true calling.

Peace,
Has the Church claimed that gayness is a built-in thing for some men, or has she only not discounted it because she has silent on the “causes” or “mechanics” of the phenomenon?

I’ve heard there are organizations who claim to be able to help “fix” gays.

I still have a hard time believing that gayness is, in fact, a congenital condition. I can think of many reasons that, even granting the social stigma as an overall “negative” aspect, men might want to be gay. I can also see how these reasons can be so deeply rooted psychologically that given the state of the art of psychotherapy we don’t really know how to “get at” it adny more than we have isolated a “gay gene.” That does not prove anything, but I have never heard anything convincing enough to make me think it’s more likely not congenital.

Of course my opinion doesn’t “make” the truth, but this all occurred to me that they may indeed have a great calling. I would think a “cured” gay man could make a fine witness for the Church, and possibly even better than a “controlling his urges” gay man.

A good friend of mine is struggling with a Christian Church in a denomination whose churches are seceding because of the gay issue.

That’s one tool the non-Catholics have that Catholics don’t. If the organization strays too far they can strike out on their own. God willing, no Catholic Church will ever think it will be in that position where it has to decide between God and Church leaders. Can you just imagine the agony these people who make decisions in churches where pastors can be elected or fired by congregational consensus, and the Church really is free to secede with only organizational and not spiritual ramifications?

It’s hard to feel too sorry for the problems our Catholicism when compared to some of the problem in these other churches that faithful, good intentioned people dedicate their lives to – regardless of whose fault it is that their denominations even exist. They may be lost, but with the issues they’re dealing with, some of ours don’t seem so troubling. At least in our church dissenters cannot rewrite or vote in doctrine.

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
That’s one tool the non-Catholics have that Catholics don’t. If the organization strays too far they can strike out on their own. God willing, no Catholic Church will ever think it will be in that position where it has to decide between God and Church leaders. Can you just imagine the agony these people who make decisions in churches where pastors can be elected or fired by congregational consensus, and the Church really is free to secede with only organizational and not spiritual ramifications?
Alan
Alan,
It seems that if someone wanted to split from the Catholic Church, it would not be choosing between God and The Church leaders, BUT between The Church Leaders and Their Personal Agendas.

Remember there are those who Want women priests, gay marriage, and all that other nonsense that we’ve heard for the past 25 years. (I still hear grumblings abput an American Catholic Chruch). However, their numbers are rather small compaired to the Whole of the Catholic Church. For those who want ‘these issues’ they just leave the Church. Then are they Catholic to begin with?
 
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Jabronie:
My thoughts exactly 😉
I am envious that I did not think of something so obviously devious. Thank you for pointing out this angle. 👍

Would it be evil to try to help them make that decision? 😃

Matt 10:16 “Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves.”

You guys just might sell me yet on being Fully Assenting Catholic, if I can still get away with sneaky stuff like this!

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
I am envious that I did not think of something so obviously devious. Thank you for pointing out this angle. 👍

Would it be evil to try to help them make that decision? 😃

Matt 10:16 “Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves.”

You guys just might sell me yet on being Fully Assenting Catholic, if I can still get away with sneaky stuff like this!

Alan
But aren’t we advised not to let ‘our brethern’ fall into sin? However there are times when people will go off on their own, regardless what you say to bring them back to the fold.
 
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Edwin1961:
But aren’t we advised not to let ‘our brethern’ fall into sin? However there are times when people will go off on their own, regardless what you say to bring them back to the fold.
Just when I think I’m going to get away with acting on evil motives, someone comes in and points out that it’s more complicated than that. :hmmm:

What’s a sinner to do? :rolleyes:

Alan
 
Gee-I thought that the reason we had empty pulpits was becuase we didnt allow Priests to marry. Now some Lutherans say their pulpits are empty becuase they dont have homosexual clergy! So I guess the solution is married homosexual clergy?:rotfl:
:rotfl:
:rotfl:
 
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