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Will_Pick
Guest
Are Lutherans Catholic ?
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IanS
Guest
:nope:
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Psalm89
Guest
As a Lutheran I can say that we are not part of the Roman Catholic Church. So in that case no.
Can Lutherans go to heaven and not be part of the RCC? Yes. So in that sense some of them are part of the church of believers.
Can Lutherans go to heaven and not be part of the RCC? Yes. So in that sense some of them are part of the church of believers.
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
My mother is Lutheran, but deep down, I think she is really Catholic. 
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catsrus
Guest
No.
I once was lutheran.
I now am Catholic. (thank God!)
BIG difference. HUGE.
I once was lutheran.
I now am Catholic. (thank God!)
BIG difference. HUGE.
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exoflare
Guest
Will Pick:
Of course not. Why would you ask that?
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MusicMan
Guest
My maternal grandmother is an ELCA Lutheran. She lives a far better “Catholic” life than many Catholics I know.
I had been offered substitute organist work at the local ELCA Church right when Pope Benedict was elected. The pastor of that parish commented that while the ELCA isn’t really in communion with Rome, they have the utmost respect for the Pope. He’s not the head of the Church, he’s just another Bishop, but they respect him as a Bishop. This pastor was also looking forward to the reign of Pope Benedict.
I am not sure this attitude is universal throughout the ELCA.
I had been offered substitute organist work at the local ELCA Church right when Pope Benedict was elected. The pastor of that parish commented that while the ELCA isn’t really in communion with Rome, they have the utmost respect for the Pope. He’s not the head of the Church, he’s just another Bishop, but they respect him as a Bishop. This pastor was also looking forward to the reign of Pope Benedict.
I am not sure this attitude is universal throughout the ELCA.
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katewithak
Guest
Universal? I know of no one in the ELCA who believes the Pope is head of the Church, nor do I know of any ELCA who is in communion with Rome. I am quite sure the attitude is universal.
As far as your grandmother goes- please define a Catholic life? The statement maes no sense to me.
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MusicMan
Guest
I think you need to reread my post. The respect for the Pope, the acknowledgement that he is a Bishop… these sorts of things may not be universal within the ELCA.
Not once did I say that this parish believed the Pope to be the head of the Church, nor did they believe themselves to be in communion with Rome.
I’m not going to list off the ways that my Lutheran grandmother lives a better life than most Catholics I know. Go to any number of threads where people are complaining about the inappropriate behaviors/attitudes/beliefs of their fellow Catholics. She doesn’t act like that.
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katewithak
Guest
Ummm are you saying she lives a better Catholic life or a better Christian life or a better Catholic Christian life? I don’t think denying the Pope as head of the Church is an example of a good Catholic. I think you mean to say she lives a better Christian life as a Lutheran than many Catholics you know do. That would be a more accurate response. Refusing to see the Pope as head of the Church never, never makes one a good catholic, whether they are lutheran or not.
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Pjs2ejs
Guest
Lutherans broke off from the Roman Catholic Church. I would love to see Lutherans reunite with the Catholic Church.
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MusicMan
Guest
Actually, we’re talking about two different things here. One is the local ELCA church in town and what their pastor believes.
The other is my grandmother, who, incidentally, doesn’t belong to this parish. She lives in another town.
I haven’t ever debated the issue of Papal Primacy with her. I know she was a big fan of John Paul II, and she watched more of the EWTN coverage of the Interegnum than I did. I do believe she is also a fan of Benedict XVI. I couldn’t tell if she believes the Pope to be the head of the universal Church on Earth or not, but I know she respects a great deal of Papal teachings.
She believes in the Real Presence. There are numerous threads on this BBS about Catholics who don’t. She dresses nice for church on Sunday, be it her own or when she comes to Mass with the Catholics in the family. She donates an extraordinary amount of time to local volunteer organizations. I think if I were to read more of the gripe about fellow Catholics who don’t follow all of the Church’s teachings threads, I could find that she follows more of them than lots of Catholics. I think my original statement stands.
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littlesheep
Guest
Not totally true. Luther had no intentions of breaking off from the RCC He was excommunicated.
So would I, but I don’t foresee the RCC changing any of their doctrine soon. Until you change and say Luther was right I don’t see that happening. And that is sad because fellow Christians should be of one mind. We don’t call it The Book of “Concord” for no reason.
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katewithak
Guest
Bless your heart- whatever. For my own part, I don’t always dress nice for Church on Sunday, I donate my time to my own Church, I don’t get EWTN in my area, so she has me beat. I do however, try very hard to follow the Church’s teachings and I believe God sent His only Son into the world for the faulty.
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MusicMan
Guest
It’s not a contest. No one is judging you. Certainly not me.Bless your heart- whatever. For my own part, I don’t always dress nice for Church on Sunday, I donate my time to my own Church, I don’t get EWTN in my area, so she has me beat. I do however, try very hard to follow the Church’s teachings and I believe God sent His only Son into the world for the faulty.
I am just proud to have a grandmother who, thanks be to God, is still living, and living in her faith… and doing it quite well. This was a thread about Lutherans… with the question asked “are Lutherans Catholic.” I kind of felt a family member of mine fit the bill.
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katewithak
Guest
Again no, not if she does not acknowledge the Pope as Christ’s Vicar on earth, it doesn’t. She may be very very Christian, but without that acknowledgement, she would not be a good CAtholic, anymore than the Catholics who object to Catholic teachings would be considered a good CAtholic. Sorry- tis the truth.
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Caelicola
Guest
katewithak, I think you’re missing MusicMan’s point. He’s talking about the life she leads and you’re talking about what she believes. You can most certainly live like a good Catholic even though you aren’t Catholic yourself.
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katewithak
Guest
I am responding to MusicMans statement:
My maternal grandmother is an ELCA Lutheran. She lives a far better “Catholic” life than many Catholics I know.
I still contend one can be an excellent Christian, but if one denies the authority of the Pope, one is not a “good” Catholic. Minor point, I know, but true.
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exoflare
Guest
littlesheep said:
Right about what?
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katewithak
Guest
Just for the sake of clarification, no one is ex communicated involuntarily. In other words, Luther, who was a priest, knew the possible grave consequences of his actions, knew that he would be ex-communicated if he continued and chose to continue. This was Luther’s choice. Ex communication in a way is almost always after the fact. A person violates outrageously Church teaching, fully conscious that that is what they are doing. They are warned, counseled, pleaded with. They remain on the self destructive course. AT that point, yes, they are excommunicated. He knew he would be ex communicated- that is what he chose. If he had no intentions of breaking away from the RCC, he would not have been excommunicated. He would not have allowed himself to get in that condition. The VAtican does not ex communicate people just because the Vatican gets mad and wants to punish. The Vatican ex communicates because it is clear the person has broken away already and is not repentant of it. So many people make the claim that Luther did not want to break away. Nonsense.
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