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royal_archer
Guest
Ok, I’ curious, how could lack of privacy possibly kill someone?
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A
aspawloski4th
Guest
Theres a psychological facotor. one exaple is it causing blood pressure to skyrocket.Ok, I’ curious, how could lack of privacy possibly kill someone?
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royal_archer
Guest
Funny, for a while I thought you were serious.Theres a psychological facotor. one exaple is it causing blood pressure to skyrocket.
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aspawloski4th
Guest
Actually stress does cause bllod pressure to sky rocket. I had a toothache that was causing me great pain and it made my bp go to 179/119 despite being on blood pressure meds. The next day the pain was gone my bp was back down to 138/90. I was dead serious.Funny, for a while I thought you were serious.
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royal_archer
Guest
Heard of asprin?Actually stress does cause bllod pressure to sky rocket. I had a toothache that was causing me great pain and it made my bp go to 179/119 despite being on blood pressure meds. The next day the pain was gone my bp was back down to 138/90. I was dead serious.
That still does not sound like reasonable rationale to make others pay for private rooms.
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aspawloski4th
Guest
Actually I had Motrin 800, and 1000 mg of tylenol and I was still in pain. In comparison to whole system at large private rooms would be a drop in the bucket. I don’t concern my self with drops in buckets. There is no such thing as a person that is both dollarwise and penny smart. I choose to be dollar wise. Pennys, they don’t make difference.Heard of asprin?
That still does not sound like reasonable rationale to make others pay for private rooms.
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maryjk
Guest
Heard of asprin?
That still does not sound like reasonable rationale to make others pay for private rooms.
Aspirin lowers blood pressure. So someone wouldn’t need a private room, just a couple of aspirin.Actually I had Motrin 800, and 1000 mg of tylenol and I was still in pain. In comparison to whole system at large private rooms would be a drop in the bucket. I don’t concern my self with drops in buckets. There is no such thing as a person that is both dollarwise and penny smart. I choose to be dollar wise. Pennys, they don’t make difference.
It is easy not to be concerned with “drops in the bucket” when you aren’t paying for the drops or the bucket. The question is, would you be willing to pay extra for insurance that covered private rooms?
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royal_archer
Guest
Did you see the poster from despair.com with the drops where it says no single drop believes it is responsible for the flood.Aspirin lowers blood pressure. So someone wouldn’t need a private room, just a couple of aspirin.
It is easy not to be concerned with “drops in the bucket” when you aren’t paying for the drops or the bucket. The question is, would you be willing to pay extra for insurance that covered private rooms?
The other aspect is should people be allowed to get insurance coverage that does not cover “luxury” items if they can get if for a lower cost.
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jman507
Guest
I’m guessing maybe it would be better to have a conference between medical professionals and those who understand budgets and economics to get together and figure out best practices than trying to have those who do not have a good idea about what is both or either medically effective and/or cost effective.
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Bluegoat
Guest
THis is pretty much what happens when you have publicly funded medicine. There are committees whose job it is to make recommendations on what should be covered and what not. Questions like medical necessity, and best practice, are important. They review new treatments, drugs etc as they come out and make decisions about them. Occasionally there is controversy about the decisions, and then they are occasionally reversed.I’m guessing maybe it would be better to have a conference between medical professionals and those who understand budgets and economics to get together and figure out best practices than trying to have those who do not have a good idea about what is both or either medically effective and/or cost effective.
This is also what happens at insurance companies, but profit margins become an important factor then, and of course the process is not public.
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royal_archer
Guest
But I am the worlds leading expert on my budget. So I have every right to talk about how my money is spent. I also am the worlds leading expert on my heath situation so I am qualified to tlak about that. As is every other tax paying American.I’m guessing maybe it would be better to have a conference between medical professionals and those who understand budgets and economics to get together and figure out best practices than trying to have those who do not have a good idea about what is both or either medically effective and/or cost effective.
However if you are propossing that an elite few have unquestioned authority to control the lives of others because of some intelectual threshold, why not ban all who have not completed college or have double digit IQs from voting?
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royal_archer
Guest
But up to now medicine was a private issue between you, your doctor and in some cases your insurace company. However we are on the verge of ending private medicine in America. So questions about what should and should not be treated or covered will no longer private matters. Up to this point I had absolutely no interest in people receiving luxury treatments and accomodations in medicine because I wasn’t paying for it. Now that we are on the verge of these matters being a matter of public interest we need to start having serious discussion as to what as a society will and will not be forced to pay for. I’d rather that decision be made solely by corupt politicians and former doctors who are receiving kick backs.THis is pretty much what happens when you have publicly funded medicine. There are committees whose job it is to make recommendations on what should be covered and what not. Questions like medical necessity, and best practice, are important. They review new treatments, drugs etc as they come out and make decisions about them. Occasionally there is controversy about the decisions, and then they are occasionally reversed.
This is also what happens at insurance companies, but profit margins become an important factor then, and of course the process is not public.
B
Bluegoat
Guest
Well, actiually, I’ve never lived in a primarily private system - we have had publicly funded health care here since my parents were children.But up to now medicine was a private issue between you, your doctor and in some cases your insurace company. However we are on the verge of ending private medicine in America. So questions about what should and should not be treated or covered will no longer private matters. Up to this point I had absolutely no interest in people receiving luxury treatments and accomodations in medicine because I wasn’t paying for it. Now that we are on the verge of these matters being a matter of public interest we need to start having serious discussion as to what as a society will and will not be forced to pay for. I’d rather that decision be made solely by corupt politicians and former doctors who are receiving kick backs.
There are occasionally items that some people think should not be paid for - more often someone complains that something should be covered which is not. But your idea of it being some kind of terrible corrupt system just isn’t the case, people making the decisions take it seriously and the public is pretty vocal when they don’t agree. People get pretty excited about their health care.
You know though, that for many Americans, health care was not between the groups you describe. Very often it is between insurance companies and employers, and consumers have to fight to get information on what is covered, or to get companies to pay for what they are supposed to, for doctors to take their insurance or insurance to cover the doctors of their choice. I am always a bit blown away when my American friends are spending huge amounts of time and energy trying to decipher what their insurance covers
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jman507
Guest
Why have those elite doctors? China’s tried that before and it didn’t work too well. How much clinical experience do you have in knowing what types of techniques called for or may end up leading to a worse condition such as death? They may not have unquestionable authority, but they do have an idea about how to place in context health situations and what interventions should be and should not be called for.But I am the worlds leading expert on my budget. So I have every right to talk about how my money is spent. I also am the worlds leading expert on my heath situation so I am qualified to tlak about that. As is every other tax paying American.
However if you are propossing that an elite few have unquestioned authority to control the lives of others because of some intelectual threshold, why not ban all who have not completed college or have double digit IQs from voting?
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royal_archer
Guest
Americans who wanted socialized health care have always had the option to move to socialist countries. Up till now those in the socialist countries had the option of coming to America where there was free market health care. With that choice quickly fading, We need to ahve some serious discussions about what we will be forced to have as part of our government mandated programs.Well, actiually, I’ve never lived in a primarily private system - we have had publicly funded health care here since my parents were children.
There are occasionally items that some people think should not be paid for - more often someone complains that something should be covered which is not. But your idea of it being some kind of terrible corrupt system just isn’t the case, people making the decisions take it seriously and the public is pretty vocal when they don’t agree. People get pretty excited about their health care.
You know though, that for many Americans, health care was not between the groups you describe. Very often it is between insurance companies and employers, and consumers have to fight to get information on what is covered, or to get companies to pay for what they are supposed to, for doctors to take their insurance or insurance to cover the doctors of their choice. I am always a bit blown away when my American friends are spending huge amounts of time and energy trying to decipher what their insurance covers
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royal_archer
Guest
All of those doctors think their specialty can offer the treatment that is necesary but all they can do is make recomendations with a probability of success and a price. They can not weigh the value of an outcome with the risk against the cost.Why have those elite doctors? China’s tried that before and it didn’t work too well. How much clinical experience do you have in knowing what types of techniques called for or may end up leading to a worse condition such as death? They may not have unquestionable authority, but they do have an idea about how to place in context health situations and what interventions should be and should not be called for.
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jman507
Guest
Well there you go, you don’t exactly know the probability of success for every given situation. It seems you want to sit and start your own best practices without actually knowing all the situations. You place a certain procedure and say, “is this luxury medicine or not?” Well in some contexts it may be, others it may not be. In some cases it may kill innovation well worth cost, and others cases it won’t.All of those doctors think their specialty can offer the treatment that is necesary but all they can do is make recomendations with a probability of success and a price. They can not weigh the value of an outcome with the risk against the cost.
I would say they are just like you, they can probably weigh the value of an outcome with the risk against the cost. All their years of education and clinical experience doesn’t reduce that capacity to do a cost vs. benefit analysis to figure out value. Now on the other hand if want to say they ought not be the only people that make that decision, I would agree. They do need their checks to balance out what may be optimum. There is no need to be so intellectually arrogant, they do have a special knowledge of the situation, along with those people who study the economics of health care. That is not to say though, that they are the ultimate authority, it should ahve its limits.
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royal_archer
Guest
So they can calculate what my values are?Well there you go, you don’t exactly know the probability of success for every given situation. It seems you want to sit and start your own best practices without actually knowing all the situations. You place a certain procedure and say, “is this luxury medicine or not?” Well in some contexts it may be, others it may not be. In some cases it may kill innovation well worth cost, and others cases it won’t.
I would say they are just like you, they can probably weigh the value of an outcome with the risk against the cost. All their years of education and clinical experience doesn’t reduce that capacity to do a cost vs. benefit analysis to figure out value. Now on the other hand if want to say they ought not be the only people that make that decision, I would agree. They do need their checks to balance out what may be optimum. There is no need to be so intellectually arrogant, they do have a special knowledge of the situation, along with those people who study the economics of health care. That is not to say though, that they are the ultimate authority, it should ahve its limits.
I am not advocating some universal calculation based on what some politicians deem proper. I advocate giving individuals the choice. But there are a few people want to take away those choices saying that certain treatments are absolute universal necesities such as stopping bleeding. On the other end of the spectrum we have things like nose jobs. Both are on the same medical spectrum. But typically when people are given a blank check they abuse it. Now the question is where is the line between absolute necesity and things that should be reserved for individual choice.
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jman507
Guest
Ahh,I see what you getting at now. Unfortunatly that is one thing I don’t like about universal health care, it can kill the competition between plans, which can serve to set an equalibrium for that type of decision.So they can calculate what my values are?
I am not advocating some universal calculation based on what some politicians deem proper. I advocate giving individuals the choice. But there are a few people want to take away those choices saying that certain treatments are absolute universal necesities such as stopping bleeding. On the other end of the spectrum we have things like nose jobs. Both are on the same medical spectrum. But typically when people are given a blank check they abuse it. Now the question is where is the line between absolute necesity and things that should be reserved for individual choice.
I guess, I would say is that there is probably not so much a line as there is a sizable grey area. Then the line will be drawn due to cost and preferences. Unfortunatly I think if turns into one major health care plan, it will be draw by lobby groups. At least with the current insurance people usually can indirectly influence it. (Since the employer will have to guage what their employees want, the employees, I would say, get an indirect influence.)
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royal_archer
Guest
It is that grey area where we really need to put some thought to keep things from getting even further out of hand.Ahh,I see what you getting at now. Unfortunatly that is one thing I don’t like about universal health care, it can kill the competition between plans, which can serve to set an equalibrium for that type of decision.
I guess, I would say is that there is probably not so much a line as there is a sizable grey area. Then the line will be drawn due to cost and preferences. Unfortunatly I think if turns into one major health care plan, it will be draw by lobby groups. At least with the current insurance people usually can indirectly influence it. (Since the employer will have to guage what their employees want, the employees, I would say, get an indirect influence.)
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