Lying to a parent with Alzheimer's disease... Is it ever ok?

[JimG]

Rob's Wife:

ETA: I also think it’s okay to just remain silent. Not every comment they make needs an answer and in the next second they are on to something else anyhow. My grandma used to hold entire conversations with people who weren’t even there or even alive anymore - we all just talked around her or listened. It was very educational at times!

I can certainly agree with this. When my Dad was getting up in age, and not quite mentally alert, but still able to live alone, it took me awhile to realize his condition, because I was living in a different town and only saw him about once a month.

He would repeat stories, complain about the government, and say the same things at each visit. At first I would sometimes try to correct him about some things that he was ‘getting wrong.’ My brother told me, “why are you arguing with him? Just let him talk. He’s just going to say the same things.”

Of course he was right. After that I just let him talk. And later, when he came to live with us, it took him probably a full month or so before he fully realized he was lilving here and not just visiting. What good would it have done to force an argument on him?

Still later, in a nursing home, he didn’t really realize he had moved again. Once, it was getting late and he was tired; I took him to his room to bed. He was relieved. “Oh, can I sleep here? That’s great!” “Lying” or telling the truth really had no meaning in our conversations.

My point is, it does no good to try to treat someone as fully rational when they are not. Or to try to impose moral categories where they have no meaning or effect. One does what has to be done.

 

[newf]

JimG…that was very nicely said.

 

[gez722]

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could pray for my Mom’s situation as it has reached a critical point. After much prayer and advice, I decided to tell her that it’s time to leave her home because she is not safe there. I was very calm and didn’t try to get into a debate with her. Initially, she just ignored it and said that she’s not ready to move. Each time I discussed it with her, she didn’t remember discussing it with my previously. Last night, I reminded her again that we would be moving last night and she said she’s not ready. After that, she told my sister that if we try to make her move she will kill herself (by taking pills), so that she can “be with Dad”.

I have left out lots of details, but my mother is a walking time bomb. Even though she is coherent enough to fight me about moving, she is very unaware of her surroundings. She is an easy target for anyone that sees her in public. Keeping this in mind, the fact that she has threatened to take her life is probably enough to make us give up and let her stay in the house.

Any advice and prayers would be GREATLY appreciated!

God Bless,
Gary

 

[Princess_Abby]

gez722:

I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could pray for my Mom’s situation as it has reached a critical point. After much prayer and advice, I decided to tell her that it’s time to leave her home because she is not safe there. I was very calm and didn’t try to get into a debate with her. Initially, she just ignored it and said that she’s not ready to move. Each time I discussed it with her, she didn’t remember discussing it with my previously. Last night, I reminded her again that we would be moving last night and she said she’s not ready. After that, she told my sister that if we try to make her move she will kill herself (by taking pills), so that she can “be with Dad”.

I have left out lots of details, but my mother is a walking time bomb. Even though she is coherent enough to fight me about moving, she is very unaware of her surroundings. She is an easy target for anyone that sees her in public. Keeping this in mind, the fact that she has threatened to take her life is probably enough to make us give up and let her stay in the house.

Any advice and prayers would be GREATLY appreciated!

God Bless,
Gary

Okay, well that would be the worst thing you could do. (Giving up and not following through with what you’ve deemed medically necessary–for her to move out and into a supportive community.)

While suicide threats should be taken seriously, oppositional people are rarely truly suicidal. It’s the people who are suddenly peaceful and suddenly agreeable that you have to worry about. Those are the individuals with a “plan” and know that agreeing with you is fine for now, because soon they won’t be here. Your mother doesn’t fit that category whatsoever. (However, you MUST make the staff aware of her threats and they will insure she is never alone with her pills. You might also ask that a social worker or counselor could help ease her transition into the community.) Really, she shouldn’t be alone with her pills now if she is going to make those sort of threats. I don’t know how feasible it is to go over there every day at medication time and dish it out, but I wonder how consistant she is with remembering to take them at appropriate times anyway.

It sounds like your mother is deteriorating rapidly, but she is still acting within the realm of what you expected and consistant with her attitude about moving out. I know this is painful, but did you really expect her to suddenly become docile and cooperative? That is not the hallmark of an Alzheimer’s patient anyway.

Have you consulted her doctor? Don’t you have power of an attorney? I know many families often have the doctor be “the bad guy” and tell the patient that living alone is no longer an option and that their children (you two) are just “following orders.”

Bottom line, she isn’t safe. Do what you know is right. Give her all the help she needs, but you cannot leave her alone.

 

[Didi]

gez722:

Keeping this in mind, the fact that she has threatened to take her life is probably enough to make us give up and let her stay in the house.

This is a very good reason for her NOT to be left alone.

Keep in mind that with Alzheimer’s, people regress emotionally, so she’s sort of acting like a 5-year-old who isn’t getting her way. I’m not saying the threat might not be real, but either way, it seems the best thing would be for her to be monitored, for medication to not be readily available for her to overdose, etc.

Have you contacted any senior social service agencies? Sometimes they are able to help with the transitional move. You might contact your local Catholic Charities or your archdiocese and ask for recommendations.

 

[Princess_Abby]

The more I think about this, and consider how unstable individuals with Alzheimer’s are, in terms of their actions, I really think your mother needs to be monitored full-time–starting immediately. When is she supposed to be moving???

 

[gez722]

Princess_Abby:

The more I think about this, and consider how unstable individuals with Alzheimer’s are, in terms of their actions, I really think your mother needs to be monitored full-time–starting immediately. When is she supposed to be moving???

Abby,
I agree with you. I just spoke with her and she thinks that went to see the lawyer about this. I know that she didn’t because there’s no way that she knows how to get to his office. It was also strange in that she was treating me as an outside observer, instead of the person that is making her move. She didn’t mention anything about our conversation last night and actually seemed rather pleasant. I will be going over to check on her this evening. I’m back to thinking that we will be able to get her to move. If I can get her to go, she can move in as soon as November 1.

God Bless,
Gary

 

[BLB_Oregon]

gez722:

Abby,
I agree with you. I just spoke with her and she thinks that went to see the lawyer about this. I know that she didn’t because there’s no way that she knows how to get to his office. It was also strange in that she was treating me as an outside observer, instead of the person that is making her move. She didn’t mention anything about our conversation last night and actually seemed rather pleasant. I will be going over to check on her this evening. I’m back to thinking that we will be able to get her to move. If I can get her to go, she can move in as soon as November 1.

God Bless,
Gary

Many times families of dementia patients take a worsening in the condition as inevitable. It is not always so. So just in case…have you spoken with her doctor about her recent deterioration? If her deterioration has been rapid, her doctor will probably want to see her and perhaps have her dementia work-up updated.

Her condition may be subject to improvement in the short term. Even in Alzheimer’s patients (who don’t get immunity from this sort of thing) it is not unusual for mental status changes in the elderly to be due to something treatable like a chronic urinary tract infection or an adverse drug interaction. If so, these are things that can make a huge difference when they are treated (and also do damage if left untreated). I would think that her physician would take her suicidal thoughts very seriously, and may even be able to link them to her medications.

Even if not, she may need to be placed immediately into a supervised setting–even if it is to have temporary care in her home when you can’t be there–until her new place opens up.

 

[hollybc]

gez722:

It was also strange in that she was treating me as an outside observer, instead of the person that is making her move. She didn’t mention anything about our conversation last night and actually seemed rather pleasant. I will be going over to check on her this evening. I’m back to thinking that we will be able to get her to move. If I can get her to go, she can move in as soon as November 1.

Actually this is not all that strange. My grandmother thought she was married to 2 LLoyds (Lloyd was her husband). One Lloyd was the kind loving husband and the other was the person that had to tell her what to do, remind her of things and “pushed her” around. I cannot more strongly stress your need to get more help from professionals… from her doctor, nursing home etc. She will probably not commit suicide. She won’t even remember saying it later. You have to realize that all her reasoning and logic are fading away.

God Bless…
Holly

 

[gez722]

I thank all of your for your advice and prayers. On Tuesday, November 1 my wife and I will be taking my mother over to her new home at the assisted living facility. As most of you know, that is All Saints Day. I will be asking all of the saints in Heaven to intercede for us and I ask for all of your prayers as well.

God Bless,
Gary

 

[gez722]

Just wanted to post a quick note to let you all know that my mother is in her third day in assisted living. It has been a bit of a bumpy ride, but I can feel the Lord’s involvement in this process and it is working. For the first time in several years, I know that she is safe.

I now see that telling her the truth was the right thing to do. I keep thinking of the story of Abraham and Isaac. Sometimes it’s hard for me to give up control and trust in God, especially when things look bleak. When we first got to the facility on Tuesday, things were not going well. My mother was determined to go home and the administrator said that she couldn’t force her to stay there. We put in an emergency call to my mother’s pastor and he rushed right over and was able to get her calm. The next day, we discovered that one of her nurses is from Poland and she was speaking Polish with my Mom (that’s a big deal to her!). So many things are just “fallling into place” that it’s not a coincidence.

Once again, I sincerely thank everyone for their advice and prayers. I have learned A LOT from this process! Please continue to pray for us.

God Bless,
Gary

 

[Princess_Abby]

Gary,
God bless you and I will keep you and your mother in my prayers. How good to know that she is safe and well-cared for! Also, what a blessing to have a Polish nurse there who can maybe make her adjustment easier. That’s so great.

 

[Siena]

Gary- The nurse might com in very handy one day. If she “regresses” very far, and Polish was her first language, she might “forget” to speak English.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Della:

I think you should tell her the truth. After all, it’s her body that is ill and it will help her understand why she is not able to do things or remember things she once could, and it may give her a legitimate reason to save her pride and agree to move to the assisted living facility.

But it isn’t her body that is ill, it is her mind. Rationalization and reality can’t be applied in an argument because the person with this disease is on a different level of understanding than everyone else.