Lying to Alzheimer's patients

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BlindSheep

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I was just talking to this woman who works in a nursing home, and she described how she goes along with the delusions of the Alzheimer’s patients (telling them their mother is in the next room, for instance), because it makes them happy. She said she thought it was cruel that the other employees would argue with them, trying to convince them of the truth, and make them upset. I don’t really have an opinion on this at this time, but I suspect that there must be another option, some middle road between outright lying and arguing with them. It also seems similar to telling the Santa story to children; I once read an article by an atheist saying she thought that being told about Santa, and then realizing he wasn’t real, was good for children because it prepared them to stop believing in God. (A good reason NOT to do the Santa thing, IMHO) Not the same issue, but in both cases, telling someone a lie or going along with their false belief to make them happy. What are your thoughts? Is it ever OK to lie? What would you do?
 
BlindSheep said:
What are your thoughts? Is it ever OK to lie? What would you do?
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Now that is an excellent question. I think it is called a “white lie”. It happened all the time in our family. My father was a very modest and generous person, and never wanted to have money spent on his needs (we were very poor), he wanted to give us (the children and his wife) as much as he could. Therefore my mother simply did not tell him when she bought new shirts (for example) for him, knowing that he would not realize the difference.

In my opinion, to lie is perfectly acceptable if this lie is designed to help, not to hurt. But, then again, I am just a heathen, whose opinion does not really count.
 
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Hitetlen:
Now that is an excellent question. I think it is called a “white lie”. It happened all the time in our family. My father was a very modest and generous person, and never wanted to have money spent on his needs (we were very poor), he wanted to give us (the children and his wife) as much as he could. Therefore my mother simply did not tell him when she bought new shirts (for example) for him, knowing that he would not realize the difference.

In my opinion, to lie is perfectly acceptable if this lie is designed to help, not to hurt. But, then again, I am just a heathen, whose opinion does not really count.
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Thank you Hitetlen, that is very enlightening. I have never heard the term “white lie” before, nor was I aware that atheists generally have no qualms about them. :rolleyes:
 
BlindSheep:
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I once read an article by an atheist saying she thought that being told about Santa, and then realizing he wasn't real, was good for children because it prepared them to stop believing in God. (A good reason NOT to do the Santa thing, IMHO)

I always hear atheists say they live there life and contribute to the common good. It follows then, if their life is without purpose and finite, then why would it matter to an atheist what anyone believes?. This behaviour is always manifest of uncertainty, as the thought that someone may gain something through his belief while he decomposes is too much to bare. The intent is to place the believer in a negative position relative to his own belief, or to draw him away from it's purpose, so he can sink with same ship. This always has a sinister intent to *destroy the building on the way out*, and we can say this is not a good. A true atheist sees all this as irrelevant, being content in his temporal existance, and not wasting valuable finite time.

 Andy
 
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BlindSheep:
Thank you Hitetlen, that is very enlightening. I have never heard the term “white lie” before, nor was I aware that atheists generally have no qualms about them. :rolleyes:
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I would suggest not to generalize. I do not speak for others, only for myself. You should not draw general conclusions from my posts. 🙂
 
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AndyF:
I always hear atheists say they live there life and contribute to the common good. It follows then, if their life is without purpose and finite, then why would it matter to an atheist what anyone believes?.
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Who says that the life of an atheist is without purpose? It does not have a transcendant purpose, for sure. I would say, that the life of the atheists can be just as purposeful as that of any believer, however the death of the atheists is truly without purpose. Big difference.
 
When my mother was in the early stages of Alzheimer’s Disease, she frequently became confused on simple non consequential things and my sisters would correct her constantly. They were struggling with the diagnosis and were trying to ignore the obvious. My mother would become frustrated and become emotional over her failing faculties as they were “pointed out” to her. Whether she understood what was happening is hard to say, but she was definitely aware of her failing memory. This became a point of contention between myself and the siblings. I repeatedly asked them to humor her and go along rather than feel the need to correct her. My feelings were that the need to correct her memory lapses was having a more detrimental effect on my mother than her memory lapses themselves. After all, she would not have known about her “mistakes” unless someone reinforced the fact.There was nothing to be done about her medical condition other than to protect her from herself, but there was something that could be done to prevent the emotional impact of the reminders that she was not well-simply go along.

As the disease progressed, she would introduce me as her husband. I always went along with her. It was obvious to anyone that I was not her spouse. I went along with anything that she said. As long as she was happy in her mind, I was happy to play the game. Who wouldn’t do the same. Who would not want the same for someone they love? We had long conversations that were absolute fiction. Contrast this scenario with one where every mistake, memory lapse, dilusion. etc. is critiqued, corrected or challenged because “it is always wrong to lie”. What good would it have done to expect the correct response from someone so ill? What good would it have done to constantly test her obviously poor faculties?

I hope that you are never faced with this disease. I will guarantee that the stories that you tell will not be lies. The truth would be much more damning.
 
If the person working with the alzheimer’s patient is telling this white lie to comfort and lessen pain of the patient, I so no problem with it, as it is a compassionate act. If the person is telling the patient the white lie to appease the patient so they don’t have to deal with the upset patient anymore, I see possible problems with that.
 
I_A_:
Lying is always wrong.
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Hog wash.

[The time is 1943; the place is Germany;a loud knock is heard at the door of the palatial I_A_ mansion.]

I_A_ answers the door: “Come in Sargent Schultz”

Sargent Schultz: “I have no time for pleasantries Herr I_A_. I am here on official business. It has been reported that you are hiding Jews inteh basement. Is this true?”

I_A_: [engages the principle that lying is always wrong] “Yes that is true”

In the case of the Nazi, they had no right to the truth, therefore it is not wrong to lie to them. Period. In the case of the nursing home patient with dementia, they have a right to the truth, but have no way to properly engage it. Therefore, it is wrong to needlessly force it upon them. The rules againt lying are made to benefit man not punish him.
 
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quasimodo:
Hog wash.

[The time is 1943; the place is Germany;a loud knock is heard at the door of the palatial I_A_ mansion.]

I_A_ answers the door: “Come in Sargent Schultz”

Sargent Schultz: “I have no time for pleasantries Herr I_A_. I am here on official business. It has been reported that you are hiding Jews inteh basement. Is this true?”

I_A_: [engages the principle that lying is always wrong] “Yes that is true”

In the case of the Nazi, they had no right to the truth, therefore it is not wrong to lie to them. Period. In the case of the nursing home patient with dementia, they have a right to the truth, but have no way to properly engage it. Therefore, it is wrong to needlessly force it upon them. The rules againt lying are made to benefit man not punish him.
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Lie and repent latter,right? Gods Law or your law? People will go to hell for lying. :eek: Silence is the answer. God Bless
 
NOT lying to an Alzheimer’s patient may be cruel. When they ask where their mother/husband/child is it is better to lie than to say they are dead. It can be as if they are hearing it for the first time. Why would someone want to put them through that pain over and over? I have been my mom’s son/ brother/ husband/ cousin. I never correct her. When my sister calls I tell her its her sister because thats who she thinks it is. I see nothing wrong with that.
 
Getting back to the subject of the thread…
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BlindSheep:
I was just talking to this woman who works in a nursing home, and she described how she goes along with the delusions of the Alzheimer’s patients (telling them their mother is in the next room, for instance), because it makes them happy.
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This happened to me last night. About 11pm last night one of our Alzheimer’s patients came out half dressed for bed, worried that her husband didn’t know where she was and that she had to go home to him.

I was not lying when I reassured her that he knew where she is (he is dead BTW) and that he wanted her to have a good sleep before she went to join him. We then distracted her awhile, let her watch TV while we made her a hot drink, pointed out that she was walking around with bare feet, and took her (& the hot drink) back to her room and settled her. By that time she had forgotten her initial worry.

I don’t like to lie in any circumstances and I have found that gentle distraction works more often than not.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Lie and repent latter,right? Gods Law or your law? People will go to hell for lying. :eek: Silence is the answer. God Bless
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Hog wash. It is only a lie if the person has a right to the truth. Silence? Hog wash. Like that will work? heh.

I agree that there are some people who might go to hell for lying but not the kinds of lies I have discussed. Their reward will be great for the service they render to their fellow man. They have no need to repent later.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Lie and repent latter,right? Gods Law or your law? People will go to hell for lying. :eek: Silence is the answer. God Bless
Click to expand...
So you are saying that people hiding Jews from the Nazis should not have lied to keep these people safe??
 
Going along with the confabulations and/or delusions of an Alzhiemers patient is not ‘lying’. It’s a behaviour management technique well accepted in the medical community, which is, incidentally, very dedicated to the truth.

These unfortunate people need to have someone else take responsiblity for their affairs and basic safety. They often have psychiatric symptoms related to their disease that they are not responsible for. Sometimes they become aggresive in response to attempts to reorient them to reality as ‘normal’ people perceive it. Therefore ‘going along’ with them and gently redirecting them, without confrontation is a very good technique for managing these patients.
 
Eileen T:
Getting back to the subject of the thread… This happened to me last night. About 11pm last night one of our Alzheimer’s patients came out half dressed for bed, worried that her husband didn’t know where she was and that she had to go home to him.

I was not lying when I reassured her that he knew where she is (he is dead BTW) and that he wanted her to have a good sleep before she went to join him. We then distracted her awhile, let her watch TV while we made her a hot drink, pointed out that she was walking around with bare feet, and took her (& the hot drink) back to her room and settled her. By that time she had forgotten her initial worry.

I don’t like to lie in any circumstances and I have found that gentle distraction works more often than not.
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How do you know that he knew where she was at? Or that he wanted her to have a good nights sleep? Did he tell you that before he died? When gentle distraction does not work do you make them relive the pain(by telling the truth) or remain silent and let them stay in that state. I can divert and distract most of the time but not always. 24/7 with a person that you have known for 50 years is not the same as a job. Their welfare and happiness comes first. I really don’t think God cares if you lie to make them happy or to lessen their confusion when there is no personal gain for the liar.
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Lie and repent latter,right? Gods Law or your law? People will go to hell for lying. :eek: Silence is the answer. God Bless
Click to expand...
. As far as Nazis, I would think that if you didn’t answer then you would die. That might be fine for you, but not good for your family, especially if you have children. Not because they would be left without you-bad enough-but because if your house had been searched they would have been sent to a death camp.
 
I had an Aunt who died of Alzheimer’s. We used to visit her in the nursing home. I don’t think you necessarily need to lie to them. Just listen to what they say. This Aunt was explaining something about how she was on an airplane trip (I dont’ think she ever flew on an airplane during her entire life). I just said things like, “Yes!” “Oh, you did?” “That must have been an adventure.”

She would talk about her folks. She would say things like “I must be 100 years old now, shouldn’t my folks be dead by now?” This was right after she would talk in detail about how her folks needed money from her. She was really in her eighties. I think I just said, “Yes, most people who are 100 years old don’t have parents that are alive any more!”

If she talked about her parents being there, I decided that for all I knew, this aunt could be having a vision of her deceased parents. I would just talk to her like she really knew what she was talking about. I don’t think I ever had to really tell a lie.
 
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