Müller: A Camera Couldn't've Captured the Resurrection

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Müller wrote:
Technical equipment or also animals lack the possibility, in contrast to human reason, of a transcendental experience Erfahrung also means ‘practical’ or 'empirical knowledge.], and hence of being spoken by the Word of God in the mediation of sensory phenomena and tangible signs. (p. 300)
Müller’s position agrees with the sed contra of St. Thomas’s Summa article “Whether a glorified body will be necessarily seen by a non-glorified body?:”
Our body will be glorified in being made like to the body of Christ after the resurrection. Now after the resurrection Christ’s body was not necessarily seen; in fact it vanished from the sight of the disciples at Emmaus (Luke 24:31). Therefore neither will the glorified body be necessarily seen. Further, there the body will be in complete obedience to the will. Therefore as the soul lists the body will be visible or invisible.
St. Thomas counters this erroneous understanding in the body of the article:
I answer that, A visible object is seen, inasmuch as it acts on the sight. Now there is no change in a thing through its acting or not acting on an external object. Wherefore a glorified body may be seen or not seen without any property pertaining to its perfection being changed. Consequently it will be in the power of a glorified soul for its body to be seen or not seen, even as any other action of the body will be in the soul’s power; else the glorified body would not be a perfectly obedient instrument of its principal agent.
Also, Modernists hold
that the object of …] [faith] (the First Truth, according to St. Thomas)] is quite extraneous to and separate from the object of …] [science]. For faith [according to Modernists] occupies itself solely with something which science declares to be unknowable for it. …] [They think] science is to be entirely independent of faith, while on the other hand, and notwithstanding that they are supposed to be strangers to each other, faith is made subject to science. (Pascendi §16-§17).
 
There’s a big difference between Archbishop Müller and the members of SSPX. One has faculties and is in full communion with the Catholic Church, and the others aren’t.
 
Müller wrote:Müller’s position agrees with the sed contra of St. Thomas’s Summa article "Whether a glorified body will be necessarily seen by a non-glorified body?:"St. Thomas counters this erroneous understanding in the body of the article:Also, Modernists hold
You have several problems going on here simultaneously.

First:

You have snippets of both Archbishop Mueller’s writing and those of St. Thomas.

Second:

You are assuming that St. Thomas position is an infallible position. The truth is that the Church has never made a pronouncement on St. Thomas position one way or the other.

Third:

This brief statement by Archbishop Mueller seems to match something that St. Bonaventure said in his letter The Tree of Life. “He truly outshines the sun, forecasting how beautiful the human body will be at its own resurrection.” Bonaventure goes on to say that the glorified body of Christ and his mother can only be seen and recognized as Christ wills it and when Christ wills it, thus explaining why Mary did not recognize him in the garden and the disciples on the way to Emmaus did not recognize him until the breaking of the bread. In Bonaventure’s writings, this would also explain why the Roman soldiers did not report a resurrection, because they did not see it. They did not see it, not because it did not happen, but because it was not Christ’s will that they see it.

Fourth:

This fits in with the Augustinian and Franciscan explanation of the Resurrection. Neither school is too concerned about who actually saw what, did not see, or could not see. Augustinians and Franciscans have always focused on the event itself.

Augustinians and Franciscans focus very heavily on two statements made by Peter.
**
Acts 5
31 "He is the one whom God exalted[q]to His right hand as a [r] Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.”**
**
Acts 10
40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.**

The events in the garden between Mary and Jesus, where she does not recognize him until he calls her name, the event on the Road to Emmaus, where they do not recognize him until the breaking of the bread and the fact that the Roman guards never reported anything out of the ordinary, all suggest that the resurrection event itself was not meant to be seen by human eyes. This may tie in with the statement that no one has seen God and lived. The resurrection event is definitely the the singular event in which God’s glory and power is fully made manifest.

What everyone saw was the risen Christ, not the actual rising. There is no doubt that there was a resurrection.

Augustine and Bonaventure explain this much more clearly than Aquinas. I have to paraphrase, because these come from several works written by Augustine and Bonaventure that have been handed down by the Augustinians and Franciscans to this day.

Augustine, attaches the highest possible value to the bodily resurrection, to free it from all crude materialism. Always following closely the teaching of St. Paul (and above all ICorinthians 15, he emphasizes the profound transformation which our bodies will undergo in the very act of resurrection, passing from the physical to the spiritual, from earthly to celestial, as did Christ’s body. Christ’s body is the reference point, if you will.

Bonaventure states that despite such a change, it will indeed always remain the same body, our same body. St. Augustine was unfailingly explicit on this point, which is indeed essential. Bonaventure sustained it.

As St. Augustine explains to his correspondent Consentius, referring to St. Luke’s account (24,29): “See my hands and feet, that it is I myself,” the body of Jesus, now spiritualized, risen as a conqueror from the tomb, is indeed the same body, perfectly recognizable, the same in everything except that it is henceforth freed from corruption.

St. Augustine makes constant reference to this point and invariably refers to St. Paul’s words: “. . . and the dead shall rise incorruptible and we shall be changed. For this incorruptible body must put on incorruption, and this mortal being must put on immortality” (I Cor. 15, 52-53).

Bonaventure reminds us that we should not fail to emphasize the immense metaphysical implication of such a stand. The resurrection win bring about the disappearance of whatever has affected the body or wounded the integrity of its substance;" it is a restitution, a restitutio-in menus. So that when Christ is raised by the Father, death, which had wounded the integrity of his bodily substance was irradicated. This is not something that can be captured on film and most probably by the human eye, since it is almost impossible for the human mind to process. The human eye could possibly witness the resurrection event and not know what it’s seeing. Therefore, see “nothing” where something is happening, something like the apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Lourdes and Fatima. Only the seers saw her. However, she was physically there right before their eyes. They did not know what to look for. The seers did. They were given that grace.

Augustine tells us that the body must be returned to its true nature, to that which constitutes its proper reality. The evidence is in Christ’s own glorified body. It cannot die again and it no longer has the biological needs hat it had before the cross, where we saw Christ take naps, go away to rest or to get away from the crowd.

The resurrection is therefore a fuller, a better state, incomparably superior to anything we can know or experience during our earthly life. Since that’s the case, it would make sense to say that it cannot be captured on film. Because what is happening at the moment of the resurrection is beyond what human reason can imagine. Therefore, human ingenuity would not conceive the technology necessary to capture that which is beyond its wildest imagination.

Nevertheless, it is the same order of reality, although thenceforth possessed of a spiritual quality, Christ’s body remained forever his very very same body. Resplendent, yes, but recognizable, it will indeed remain always the same body with all its identifying marks. Thus he can invite Thomas to touch his wounds, while at the same time appearing and disappearing, blinding them to his identity on way to Emmaus. And disclosing himself to Mary as she performs the perfect act of penance: she looks for the Lord, she enters the emptiness of the cave and she weeps for his absence.

From the little German that I can understand, what I get from Archbishop Mueller’s chapter is that he is building not on Aquinas, but and the Augustinian and Franciscan schools, which concern themselves with the resurrection event, the process and its effect on the body. That’s not the same problem that Aquinas is addressing. Bonaventure, Augustine and Mueller do not deny what Aquinas says, but it’s not that important to them, because they don’t have issue with whether or not an object is seen or not seen.

They were dealing withe a different concept, the resurrection event itself and what actually happens. This is what Archbishop Mueller says cannot be caught on film Obviously, it’s a hypothesis. One would have to test it to see if it works. He’s not proposing it as dogma, which this blogger seems to suggest.

He’s saying that based on what Scripture, Augustine and Bonaventure have told us about the resurrection event, it is inconceivable that the human mind would anticipate such an event and be able to produce the necessary technology to capture its every detail. At best, we can get a photograph of an empty tomb and a risen Christ, had the technology existed.

The man is hypothesizing. He’s not dictating dogma. There is much more to the hypothesis than this sentence. There is an entire chapter that makes references to Augustine and Bonaventure’s work. He does not refer to Aquinas’ work, because he’s not trying to answer the question that Aquinas is answering. The question before Aquinas was whether or not the glorified body could be seen at all. The error that Aquinas was addressing was a belief that one could see Christ and not see the glorified Christ. Aquinas is saying that this is nonsense. He says that something is what it is. You see it as it truly is.

Again, that’s not the question on Augustine’s table, Bonaventure’s table or Mueller’s table. The question is what happened during the resurrection event that influenced what the Apostles saw later?

Not being proficient enough in German, I can’t say whether I agree or disagree with his hypothesis. I can only say that I see nothing in it that is heretical, because it’s a hypothesis, not a dogma. We don’t have a dogma that describes the process and the metaphysics of the resurrection event. The dogma is that Christ truly rose from the dead with a glorified body I cannot see where Archbishop Mueller denies this. I see him paraphrasing a lot of what I paraphrased above.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
If a camera cannot capture the resurrection, then a resurrected body does not reflect light. It is therefore not a resurrected body.
 
If a camera cannot capture the resurrection, then a resurrected body does not reflect light. It is therefore not a resurrected body.
You’re missing his point. Go back and read what I wrote from the Augustinians and Franciscans. That’s what he’s talking about. He’s talking about the metaphysical aspect of the resurrection, about the actual person.

If you had a camera, you could take pictures of an empty tomb and you could take pictures of Christ with the Apostles. But that’s not important to the Augustinians, the Franciscans or Archbishop Mueller. They’re interested in what exactly happens during the resurrection? What is the part that we can’t see?

We can see an empty tomb. We can see Jesus. How did he rise? How did he change from a weighted body to a glorified body and yet retain his own body? Augustinians and Franciscans have been fascinated with that question for centuries.

Since Pope Benedict is an Augustinian/Franciscan theologian, not a Thomist, he’s picked a Prefect for the CDF who is also Augustinian/Franciscan, because they speak the same language.

It’s not that Aquinas is wrong or that they end up in different places. It’s that they are answering different questions.

No one really cares whether or not you could film the resurrection. The exciting part to the theologian is the process, the part that is not visible to the naked eye, which obviously cannot be caught on camera. A camera can only capture what the eye can see. It’s really a very primitive imitation of an eye.

I just wish that I knew enough German to read the whole chapter without using a dictionary. My German is very rusty. It’s too exhausting when you have to look up a word every five minutes.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
You’re missing his point. Go back and read what I wrote from the Augustinians and Franciscans. That’s what he’s talking about. He’s talking about the metaphysical aspect of the resurrection, about the actual person.

If you had a camera, you could take pictures of an empty tomb and you could take pictures of Christ with the Apostles. But that’s not important to the Augustinians, the Franciscans or Archbishop Mueller. They’re interested in what exactly happens during the resurrection? What is the part that we can’t see?

We can see an empty tomb. We can see Jesus. How did he rise? How did he change from a weighted body to a glorified body and yet retain his own body? Augustinians and Franciscans have been fascinated with that question for centuries.

Since Pope Benedict is an Augustinian/Franciscan theologian, not a Thomist, he’s picked a Prefect for the CDF who is also Augustinian/Franciscan, because they speak the same language.

It’s not that Aquinas is wrong or that they end up in different places. It’s that they are answering different questions.

No one really cares whether or not you could film the resurrection. The exciting part to the theologian is the process, the part that is not visible to the naked eye, which obviously cannot be caught on camera. A camera can only capture what the eye can see. It’s really a very primitive imitation of an eye.

I just wish that I knew enough German to read the whole chapter without using a dictionary. My German is very rusty. It’s too exhausting when you have to look up a word every five minutes.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
Brother, I nearly always miss these sort of points. I have trouble seeing them as points at all - they seem to me to be words strung together, relating to each other but not to reality. But I will continue to try to understand. You say:
Bonaventure reminds us that we should not fail to emphasize the immense metaphysical implication of such a stand. The resurrection win bring about the disappearance of whatever has affected the body or wounded the integrity of its substance;" it is a restitution, a restitutio-in menus. So that when Christ is raised by the Father, death, which had wounded the integrity of his bodily substance was irradicated. This is not something that can be captured on film and most probably by the human eye, since it is almost impossible for the human mind to process
How then do we explain the experience of Thomas, who was able to place his hands in the still-apparent wounds of Christ?
 
Brother, I nearly always miss these sort of points. I have trouble seeing them as points at all - they seem to me to be words strung together, relating to each other but not to reality. But I will continue to try to understand. You say:

How then do we explain the experience of Thomas, who was able to place his hands in the still-apparent wounds of Christ?
As St. Augustine explains to his correspondent Consentius, referring to St. Luke’s account (24,29): “See my hands and feet, that it is I myself,” the body of Jesus, now spiritualized, risen as a conqueror from the tomb, is indeed the same body, perfectly recognizable, the same in everything except that it is henceforth freed from corruption.

Christ’s body remained forever his very very same body. Resplendent, yes, but recognizable, it will indeed remain always the same body with all its identifying marks. Thus he can invite Thomas to touch his wounds, while at the same time appearing and disappearing, blinding them to his identity on way to Emmaus. And disclosing himself to Mary as she performs the perfect act of penance: she looks for the Lord, she enters the emptiness of the cave and she weeps for his absence.

Augustine, attaches the highest possible value to the bodily resurrection, to free it from all crude materialism. Always following closely the teaching of St. Paul (and above all ICorinthians 15, he emphasizes the profound transformation which our bodies will undergo in the very act of resurrection, passing from the physical to the spiritual, from earthly to celestial, as did Christ’s body. It is this transformation that Mueller is saying cannot be captured on film.

Remember, he’s commenting. He’s not proposing a dogma here. He’s commenting on the metaphysical change that takes place in the resurrection. Whether that change can actually be photographed or not can never be proven. Logic says that it cannot be, because it’s like the consecration. You know it’s happening, but you can’t see the bread changing into the body of Christ. You can’t take a picture of the consecration. All you’re going to see is a priest holding up a host. You don’t see the bread disappear and Christ appear. Yet, that is exactly what happens.

The same way we can’t see Christ’s human limitations disappear at the resurrection. But we know that’s what happened. The man cannot die, something that he could do before.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It’s also possible it could be that they are both right;
  1. During the actual Resurrection you would not have been able to take a photo of Jesus.
  2. Once He has the glorified body, all bets are off.
 
Our body will be glorified in being made like to the body of Christ after the resurrection. Now after the resurrection Christ’s body was not necessarily seen; in fact it vanished from the sight of the disciples at Emmaus (Luke 24:31). Therefore neither will the glorified body be necessarily seen. Further, there the body will be in complete obedience to the will. Therefore as the soul lists the body will be visible or invisible.
I haven’t read the whole thing but I don’t have a problem with this statement.

He said Christ’s body was not NECESSARILY seen. Which means to me that it was not always seen. Christ’s glorified body was able to walk through walls and was able to disappear at will.

Now if he said Christ’s glorified body was NEVER seen, there would be a problem.
 
I haven’t read the whole thing but I don’t have a problem with this statement.

He said Christ’s body was not NECESSARILY seen. Which means to me that it was not always seen. Christ’s glorified body was able to walk through walls and was able to disappear at will.

Now if he said Christ’s glorified body was NEVER seen, there would be a problem.
Well said, TL. Also, there were times that His own followers had no idea Who He was post-Ressurection. On the the road to Emmaus, they didn’t recognize him until later.

His body was obviously different at times. Not being visible to the human eye for brief periods is totally viable.
 
There’s a big difference between Archbishop Müller and the members of SSPX. One has faculties and is in full communion with the Catholic Church, and the others aren’t.
I think the more important differences are that Archibshop Mueller is a well known theological scholar. The SSPX has no theological scholar of his caliber or that of John Paul II or Benedict XVI. When one takes then up against each other, one has to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who has been well received by the Magisterium.

The SSPX theologians cannot be contradicted, not because they have made any new contribution to the development of theology, but because what they say and cite is what has been written by prior scholars and already accepted by the Magisterium.

People are going to look at their statements and say, “You see, they’re right. The Vatican did not contradict them.”

That’s not true. They’re not right. Aquinas was right. Lawrence was right. The Fathers were right. The SSPX theologians are repeating and they repeat very selectively. They stay clear of every Franciscan Doctor in the Church. Which is interesting in itself. All of the Franciscan doctors are very different from Aquinas. Among the Dominicans, there are only two doctors, Aquinas and Catherine. Catherine is very Augustinian, not a Thomist.

The Franciscans have the largest number of doctors and all of them are Augustinian. You don’t see an SSPX quote Bonaventure, Lawrence of Brindisi, or Anthony of Padua. They don’t quote the Franciscan mystical masters such as Francis, Clare, Agnes of Prague, Leonard of Port Maurice, Francisco de Osuna or the Marian theologians such as Duns Scotus. When they want to speak of Mary, they go to St. Louie de Montfort. They don’t mention that St. Louie is a) a Franciscan and b) well versed in the writings and works of Duns Scotus and Bonaventure.

They steer clear of St. Ignatius, St. Fancis Xavier or the Carmelite doctors as well.

They won’t touch John of Avila or John Henry Newman with a 10 ft pole. Neither of them are Thomists. Both are master theologians. John of Avila was just approved to become the next Doctor of the Church.

What Archbishop Mueller does is what someone like John Henry Newman did, Duns Scotus or Louie de Montfort. He builds on what came before and he hypothesizes. He’s not trying to each dogma. He’s trying to add a comment to what has been said and to raise new questions.

As long as those questions and the hypotheses do not contradict dogma, they are permissible.

In his theology of history, Bonaventure shows us that as history unfolds, Truth invites us to deeper exploration and question. Truth is not being called into question. That’s not what he means. He means that more questions about truth arise.
I haven’t read the whole thing but I don’t have a problem with this statement.

He said Christ’s body was not NECESSARILY seen. Which means to me that it was not always seen. Christ’s glorified body was able to walk through walls and was able to disappear at will.

Now if he said Christ’s glorified body was NEVER seen, there would be a problem.
He’s just repeating what Augustine and Bonaventure said. What’s there to object to, unless one wants to call Augustine and Bonaventure heretics. Calling two of the greatest doctors of the Church heretics is a big claim.

Of Aquinas it has been said that he is the Angelic Doctor. However, what is rarely mentioned is that later the Church declared that Bonaventure was the Seraphic Doctor, because his theology is so packed with pure love that it radiates fire like that of the seraphs around the throne of God. It is said that one cannot read Bonaventure’s theology and not love, unless one is either dead or dense.

Of Aquinas it is said that one cannot read his theology and not see reason, unless one is either dead or dense.

They come at theology from two different perspectives. Aquinas uses reason to ignite the heart. Bonaventure uses the fire of divine love to enlighten reason. Archbishop Mueller is borrowing from the latter.

Why the traditionalist movement is so shy of the Augustinian, Franciscan, Carmelite and Jesuit schools is a mystery to me. I have heard some say that there is actually a genuine hatred for the Franciscan school among the Trads. This I can understand. Archbishop Lefebvre’s excommunication for his disobedience was hailed by 114 Franciscan superiors, because the Rule of St. Francis is very clear. You may never disobey the authority unless you have concrete proof that you are being commanded to sin. Speculation that something may lead to sin or may cause others to sin never justifies disobedience. Also, our law says that anyone who disagrees with Francis is a heretic. I can see that little conflict.

But the other writings and scholars in these other schools are wonderful. I have never seen them quote the writings of St. Francis, Bl. John Newman, St. Maximilian Kolbe, St.Edith Stein, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Alberto Hurtado, St. Jose Maria Escriva or Bl. Mother Teresa.

That’s a msytery to me. These men and women have much to say about many of the questions that the Traditionalist movement puts on the table. They actually offer some answers.

🤷

As I said, I am not about to read the book until I can find it English. Reading in German and having to look up a word every five minutes drives me crazy. From the little that I read, I can put my finger on this and that and say with certainty, “This is Augustine and this is Bonaventure. The question on the table is not the same question to which Aquinas was responding. Aquinas does not fit in here.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Brother JR, In South America, various Traditionalist are very fond of Bl. John Henry Newman, St Agustine, St Ignatius, the Eastern Fathers, and much more. I’m not an expert on the movement, but the authors frequently referenced are quite varied.

Blessings!

🙂
 
I haven’t read the whole thing but I don’t have a problem with this statement.

He said Christ’s body was not NECESSARILY seen. Which means to me that it was not always seen. Christ’s glorified body was able to walk through walls and was able to disappear at will.

Now if he said Christ’s glorified body was NEVER seen, there would be a problem.
The issue with the sed cotra is that Christ’s body is made subject to the will of the one perceiving it: “…there the body [of Christ] will be in complete obedience to the will [of the one perceiving His body]. Therefore as the soul lists the body [of Christ] will be visible or invisible.”
 
From what I have read, I haven’t seen problems with any of Archbishop Müllers statements.
The issue with Müller’s statement is that it makes Christ’s glorified body a subjective aspect of the faithful, in accordance with the Modernists’ doctrine of divine imminence (Pascendi 39.):
Etenim hoc quærimus; an ejusmodi ‘immanentia’ Deum ab homine distinguat necne? Si distinguit, quid tum a catholica doctrina differt aut doctrinam de revelatione cur rejicit? Si non distinguit, pantheismum habemus. Atqui immanentia haec modernistarum vult atque admittit omne conscientiæ phenomenon ab homine, ut homo est, proficisci.
[For, we ask, does this “immanence” make God and man distinct or not? If it does, then in what does it differ from the Catholic doctrine? or why does it reject what is taught in regard to revelation? If it does not make God and man distinct, it is Pantheism. But this immanence of the Modernists would claim that every phenomenon of consciousness proceeds from man as man.]
 
there were times that His own followers had no idea Who He was post-Ressurection. On the the road to Emmaus, they didn’t recognize him until later.
Yes, but they still first saw Him before recognizing Him.
His body was obviously different at times. Not being visible to the human eye for brief periods is totally viable.
Sure, that’s a given.

But if you’re standing in front of me, can I will that you not appear to me? Similarly, for Jesus’ resurrected body: If He is standing in front of me, can I will (such as by choosing not to believe) that His resurrected body not appear to me? Clearly not, else unbelieving, Doubting Thomas wouldn’t’ve seen Jesus to be able to put his fingers in His wounds.
 
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