Maccabees

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dogknox

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Where, oh where can I find in the book of Maccabees the miracle of the; “Oil Lasting Eight Days!!??”
Trust me; I have looked and looked I just can’t find it in, book one or book two!!

If anyone does know; “Chapter and verse”… PLEASE post me!!!

Dogknox🙂
 
Where, oh where can I find in the book of Maccabees the miracle of the; “Oil Lasting Eight Days!!??”
Trust me; I have looked and looked I just can’t find it in, book one or book two!!

If anyone does know; “Chapter and verse”… PLEASE post me!!!

Dogknox🙂
Well, if I had a Bible in my house that contained the apocrypha I would be more than happy to help you, but suprisingly I don’t have one of eleven of them that does. Sorry.
 
Where, oh where can I find in the book of Maccabees the miracle of the; “Oil Lasting Eight Days!!??”
Trust me; I have looked and looked I just can’t find it in, book one or book two!!

If anyone does know; “Chapter and verse”… PLEASE post me!!!

Dogknox🙂
I think the story is tradition. I am not saying I think it is untrue, I don’t know, in fact I would lean toward it is true, but I have read Maccabees 1,2,and most of 4 and I don’t remember ever finding it.

Wow that is weird.

God Bless
 
I have searched I and II Maccabees for the story before, and I’m fairly certain that it isn’t there. I haven’t looked in III or IV, since they aren’t part of the Bible. I think this misses the point, though. If you are looking at it because of Hanukkah, you’ve been mislead. That might be a lovely tradition and a fine little story that we all learn in school (and it may well be true, as pious tradition often is), but that isn’t what Hanukkah is really celebrating, and I suspect that the story is passed along to explain why there are eight days and eight candles. The holiday is actually celebrating the rededication of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem after it had been defiled by the Greeks. The rededication of the temple is mentioned at the end of Maccabees (where it falls chronologically), and the miracle of the oil is supposed to have taken place as part of the rededication ceremonies.
 
IV Maccabees is the Martyrdom of Eleazer and the seven brothers. III Maccabees recounts the lives of the Jews living under Egyptian rule at this same time.

While I thought I’d read the bit about the oil lasting eight days before, I can’t find it looking through now.
 
I have searched I and II Maccabees for the story before, and I’m fairly certain that it isn’t there. I haven’t looked in III or IV, since they aren’t part of the Bible. I think this misses the point, though. If you are looking at it because of Hanukkah, you’ve been mislead. That might be a lovely tradition and a fine little story that we all learn in school (and it may well be true, as pious tradition often is), but that isn’t what Hanukkah is really celebrating, and I suspect that the story is passed along to explain why there are eight days and eight candles. The holiday is actually celebrating the rededication of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem after it had been defiled by the Greeks. The rededication of the temple is mentioned at the end of Maccabees (where it falls chronologically), and the miracle of the oil is supposed to have taken place as part of the rededication ceremonies.
FrancisB THANK YOU… It was driving me crazy; I was sure it was there, someplace!!!
I have always assumed it was in there…
Reading your post… clears it up!!
It is just not in Maccabees :confused:

I can sleep better knowing; I am not crazy!!

Thank you everyone!
Nine_Two, gilbs72, bogeydogg

Candlepower
I mostly use the “internet bibles” 😉
Dogknox🙂
 
Well, if I had a Bible in my house that contained the apocrypha I would be more than happy to help you, but suprisingly I don’t have one of eleven of them that does. Sorry.
Well, then why’d you bother answering?
 
Well, if I had a Bible in my house that contained the apocrypha I would be more than happy to help you, but suprisingly I don’t have one of eleven of them that does. Sorry.
FYI, for Catholics, 1 and 2 Maccabees are not apocryphal, they are deuterocanonical. Apocrypha is a perjorative term used by Protestants to denote writings that their tradition has judged to be fake and non-scriptural.

Just for clarity’s sake.
 
you got me searching for this and this is what I found:

"Notably, “Chanukah” (Dedication) is not mentioned until Megillat Ta’anit (The Scroll of Days on which Fasting is Forbidden), which was written during the first century C.E.—two hundred years after the Maccabees purified the Temple! “On the 25th Day of Kislev,” it reads, “Chanukah [begins]—eight days—mourning is forbidden.” And in none of these sources is there mention of the “little jar of oil.”

The Talmud (Rosh Hashanah 18b) relates a notable event in the first century C.E.: “The residents of Lydda declared a fast on Chanukah. Rabbi Eliezer [ben Hyrcanus] returned there and bathed. Rabbi Joshua [ben Hannaniah] also returned and had his hair cut. [Bathing and haircutting were forbidden on fast days.] [Later] they said to the residents [of Lydda], “Go now and fast in atonement for having fasted [on Chanukah]!”

From this we learn that some Jews must have opposed the celebration of Chanukah, which to them probably represented an “activist” approach to dealing with occupiers. Afraid that even non-violent opposition might unleash the wrath of the oppressor, these “passivist” Jews wished to play down the message of the Maccabees—that opposition to foreign rule is sometimes justified and, with God’s help, can succeed.

In the years that followed, depending on the century or the location, either “activist” or “passivist” approaches would dominate. The Jews of Palestine, by and large, continued to favor activism, which often took the form of subtle literary derogation of the oppressor. In contrast, and perhaps because the ruling authorities typically gave them the right to self government, the Jews of Babylonia tended to favor accommodation, declaring, “The law of the government is the law” (“dina de’malchuta, dina”), a dictum that occurs nine times in the Talmud.

Thus, for the Jews of Babylonia, the Chanukah story of the Maccabees’ victorious struggle presented a problem: their young people might be influenced by the Maccabee model to become “activist” opponents of authority. It is at this point, six centuries after the Maccabean victory, that the miracle of the “little jar of oil” finally makes an appearance in the sacred literature. The festival of Chanukah had become so firmly entrenched in the hearts and minds of the people, it was impossible to eliminate. So the Babylonian Jews changed the miracle story from the military victory against overwhelming odds to the little jar of oil that lasted eight days. "

I found that last bit especially interesting. THe website I got it from is : reformjudaismmag.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=1408
 
I just read 3 Macc and did not see it there.

However, to add:

On 2 Maccabees 10:6

[bibledrb]2 Maccabees 10:6[/bibledrb]

It talks about the Jews keeping 8 days for the Feast of Tabernacles (Booths, Sukkot) . The feast normally lasted 7 days but it lasted 8 days in the diaspora, which applies during this time.

It doesn’t mention the oil thou 🤷

And, our Orthodox brothers do include 3 Maccabees 😉

In Him
 
I believe the story of Hannukkah is from Jewish tradition in the Mishna or Talmud…not in Maccabees…though the “event” occurs durning the Maccabees…it’s not in scripture.
 
FYI, for Catholics, 1 and 2 Maccabees are not apocryphal, they are deuterocanonical. Apocrypha is a perjorative term used by Protestants to denote writings that their tradition has judged to be fake and non-scriptural.

Just for clarity’s sake.
Fair enough. My church calls it the apocrypha.
 
Where, oh where can I find in the book of Maccabees the miracle of the; “Oil Lasting Eight Days!!??”
Trust me; I have looked and looked I just can’t find it in, book one or book two!!

If anyone does know; “Chapter and verse”… PLEASE post me!!!

Dogknox🙂
1 Maccabees 4

36 Then said Judas and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
37 Upon this all the host assembled themselves together, and went up into mount Sion.
38 And when they saw the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests’ chambers pulled down;
39 They rent their clothes, and made great lamentation, and cast ashes upon their heads,
40 And fell down flat to the ground upon their faces, and blew an alarm with the trumpets, and cried toward heaven.
41 Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he had cleansed the sanctuary.
42 So he chose priests of blameless conversation, such as had pleasure in the law:
43 Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.
44 And when as they consulted what to do with the altar of burnt offerings, which was profaned;
45 They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they pulled it down,
46 And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what should be done with them.
47 Then they took whole stones according to the law, and built a new altar according to the former;
48 And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.
49 They made also new holy vessels, and into the temple they brought the candlestick, and the altar of burnt offerings, and of incense, and the table.
50 And upon the altar they burned incense, and the lamps that were upon the candlestick they lighted, that they might give light in the temple.
51 Furthermore they set the loaves upon the table, and spread out the veils, and finished all the works which they had begun to make.
52 Now on the five and twentieth day of the ninth month, which is called the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and eighth year, they rose up betimes in the morning,
53 And offered sacrifice according to the law upon the new altar of burnt offerings, which they had made.
54 Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it, even in that was it dedicated with songs, and citherns, and harps, and cymbals.
55 Then all the people fell upon their faces, worshipping and praising the God of heaven, who had given them good success.
56 And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days and offered burnt offerings with gladness, and sacrificed the sacrifice of deliverance and praise.
57 They decked also the forefront of the temple with crowns of gold, and with shields; and the gates and the chambers they renewed, and hanged doors upon them.
58 Thus was there very great gladness among the people, for that the reproach of the heathen was put away.
59 Moreover Judas and his brethren with the whole congregation of Israel ordained, that the days of the dedication of the altar should be kept in their season from year to year by the space of eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, with mirth and gladness.

The burning of the oil for 8 days Talmud Shabbath 21b

"What is [the reason of] Hanukkah? For our Rabbis taught: On the twenty-fifth of Kislev
[commence] the days of Hanukkah, which are eight on which a lamentation for the dead and fasting are forbidden.

For when the Greeks entered the Temple, they defiled all the oils therein, and when
the Hasmonean dynasty prevailed against and defeated them, they made search and found only one cruse of oil which lay with the seal of the High Priest, but which contained sufficient for one day’s lighting only; yet a miracle was wrought therein and they lit [the lamp] therewith for eight days. The following year these [days] were appointed a Festival with [the recital of] Hallel and thanksgiving."
 
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