Magi

[redrosetea]

I have read but I can’t recall where, the magi became converts…I sort of find this unlikely, and wonder if any of you can give me a bit of information

I find it unlikely that they would have become Jews…

 

[bpbasilphx]

They were among the first to worship Jesus, so what do you think they converted to? HMMMMM???

 

[redrosetea]

I’m not sure because Christ lived and died as a Jew

 

[Deacon_Ed]

There is nothing Scriptural about a conversion nor is there anything in early Christian tradition (note the little “t”). There are pious stories from the middle ages about such conversion, but that is pretty late in the game to make such a claim. In point of fact, we do not even know how many there were (we assume three because there were three gifts, but we don’t know for sure). We have even ascribed names to them, but again this is a much later development.

Deacon Ed

 

[redrosetea]

Thank you Deacon Ed…According to Jimmy Aiken, the magi ,and even the shepherds, might not have fully understood the Baby was the Christ…Mary knew it and Joseph, but even in the gospels it seems like St Peter was the only one who completely got who Christ was

 

[bpbasilphx]

Well, the angels out and out TOLD the Shepherds that the Babe was “Christ the Lord,” according to Luke 2. If they didn’t get it then, I don’t know why.

And in the tradition of the Church, the three Magi–Melchior, Caspar, and Balthazar–are considered saints.

I don’t know who the “we” is that doesn’t know if there were only three. The Tradition of the Church is pretty firm on this.

 

[Pro_Domina]

The thing is that salvation back then was a lot simpler. It required faith in God and His Messiah. But after Christ, it is totally revolving around Him.

That is why pagans could be saved without formal entrance into Judaism. The Magi are an extraordinary thing though. They formally adored God made man. This by St. Thomas’ teaching of the forms of being baptized constitutes a baptism. Why? Because they admired something superior to themselves in virtue of its superiority. But they implicitly or explicitly went further. They certainly received a grace and in some way shape or form adored the divinity of this Child. This is the first formal adoration of OJC by pagans.

 

[redrosetea]

I haven’t read anywhere that there were only 3…Three gifts are mentioned.,.but that is all…I don’t recall them ever being saints…perhaps among the eastern churches?

 

[Pro_Domina]

That is because you probably only have contact with the American church.

In Spain there are HUGE processions in their honor. There called Los **Santos **Reyes Magos.

In French, Saints Rois Mages.

 

[redrosetea]

I do know that their relics are reputed to be in the church in Cologne…but I have never read anything , when reading over the lives of the saints to declare them canonized nor saints

I know yonks ago canonization was a much different procedure than it is today…Many early saints like Christopher were decided to be more fable than fact

 

[malphono]

I haven’t read anywhere that there were only 3…Three gifts are mentioned.,.but that is all…I don’t recall them ever being saints…perhaps among the eastern churches?

The number of Magi is commonly set at three, but I recall reading many moons ago that there is at least one old tradition that goes as high as twelve. Unfortunately, I cannot offhand find a source, and I don’t have the resources to delve into it too deeply.

That said, though, and considering that it is generally accepted that the Magi were from the Persian Empire (i.e. “the East” as in "east of the Roman Empire), I seem to think (and that’s all it is – a thought. I am not certain about this by any means) that what I recall having read may well have been a tradition from the Assyrian Church of the East. Perhaps one of our ACoE or Chaldean brethern might be able to help me out.

 

[thistle]

I haven’t read anywhere that there were only 3…Three gifts are mentioned.,.but that is all…I don’t recall them ever being saints…perhaps among the eastern churches?

Scripture does not say how many magi there were. People assumed three because of the three gifts but we don’t know.

 

[Holy_Crucifix]

While Deacon Ed is right in that many of the stories concerning the magi appear quite late, we have a first century church in Persia that holds claim to have been built on the supposed tomb of one of the magi.

Ultimently the whole thing is speculative and unimportant, but it certainly is interesting.

 

[narrowpath]

The magi were from the east. Most scholars believe they were zoroastrian scholars from the Persian area.

 

[redrosetea]

While Deacon Ed is right in that many of the stories concerning the magi appear quite late, we have a first century church in Persia that holds claim to have been built on the supposed tomb of one of the magi.

Ultimently the whole thing is speculative and unimportant, but it certainly is interesting.

Yes I certainly agree…I have just watched the Star on EWTN and it has been suggested these magi were descended from Daniel, and were not like one Simon Mangus for the Acts of the Apostles

He thinks they were more like scientists than they were magicians

It is interesting to see what is actually available about them…I didn’t know there was a church…Do you happen to know what it is called?

I know it has been theorized there was a mosaic on the Church of the Nativity that kept the Persians from destroying the chuch because they reconized the insignia of these men

 

[Sir_Anthony]

Well, the Magi probably came from Babylonia which was under control of the Persian Parthians at the time, and in fact there may have been great irony in coming to Bethlehem to worship the new born king. Herod claims ignorance of the star that the Magi speak of because Judaea was against the astrology practices of the Near East, and the star of bethlehem was probably a conjuction of some prominent planets and stars, which was not very prominent, but observable to the magi living in Babylon. The irony would be that this conjuction of Jupiter happened in the constellation of Aries, which was associated with the the country of Judaea. Now the irony is that these magi are from Babylon that once subjected the Judaeans, and now it comes full circle as the magi representing the East comes to bow before the King of the Jews! Now the three gifts symbolizes three of Jesus’ role as king (gold), prophet (myrrh), and priest (frankincese). The question of whether they converted or not is something we will probably not know for certain. If the magi were really wise, I am sure they would have known that this is the son of the Most High, and embrace the God of the Jews.