Magic and Prayer

[Sebas123]

I have question for you Gandalf, Are you a wiccan. And if you are does that mean you do animal sacrifice. I hope i don’t offend you with this question i just want to understand the wiccan faith better.

 

[_Gandalf]

I have question for you Gandalf, Are you a wiccan. And if you are does that mean you do animal sacrifice. I hope i don’t offend you with this question i just want to understand the wiccan faith better.

Why would I be offended? It’s a rather straight forward question. To answer it though, no, I am not a Wiccan. And I don’t do animal sacrifice.

 

[Catholic_C_1]

There is a very good discussion going on here. Magic is a very real part of our world and certainly undeniable. Personally I find that one of the biggest reasons to avoid magic is that it simply doesn’t tend to lead one to God. In fact magic tends to take someone in the complete opposite direction and becomes most certainly a temptation to perform evil acts and fall into diabolism. The Harry Potter Series even brings this message across as the Dark Arts are available but where are the Light Arts? There are none because magic fails to enter into the realm of godliness. One might be able to practice magic with an element of virtue but to be able to practice it with sanctity seems impossible.
Fr. Gabriele Amorth has a contemporary best-selling book on this subject entitled An Exorcist - More Stories catholiccompany.com/exorcist-more-stories-p1003299/ and I encourage anyone who would like to know more about this topic to check it out.

 

[Lokabrenna]

I have question for you Gandalf, Are you a wiccan. And if you are does that mean you do animal sacrifice. I hope i don’t offend you with this question i just want to understand the wiccan faith better.

I’m not Wiccan, but I can tell you that no Wiccan I’ve ever met has practiced animal sacrifice. Most would say that it’s against the Wiccan Rede, and illegal, besides. Some members of African Diasporic Traditions (Vodou, Santeria, etc.) do practice it, but generally not to the excess that you might hear about when the local news discusses “ritual crimes” and whatnot. Those sorts of crimes are usually committed by a) bored young people or b) criminals who use a “frightening” religion as a scapegoat for their crimes.

 

[Lokabrenna]

There is a very good discussion going on here. Magic is a very real part of our world and certainly undeniable. Personally I find that one of the biggest reasons to avoid magic is that it simply doesn’t tend to lead one to God. In fact magic tends to take someone in the complete opposite direction and becomes most certainly a temptation to perform evil acts and fall into diabolism. The Harry Potter Series even brings this message across as the Dark Arts are available but where are the Light Arts? There are none because magic fails to enter into the realm of godliness. One might be able to practice magic with an element of virtue but to be able to practice it with sanctity seems impossible.
Fr. Gabriele Amorth has a contemporary best-selling book on this subject entitled An Exorcist - More Stories catholiccompany.com/exorcist-more-stories-p1003299/ and I encourage anyone who would like to know more about this topic to check it out.

Actually, it’s “Defense Against the Dark Arts” (ie. How to PROTECT YOURSELF from malevolent magic) the “good” characters might do some questionable things (especially in the later books) but there is NEVER any doubt that witches and wizards who use the Dark Arts are anything but pure evil.

It bothers me when people make blanket statements about the books (when most of them haven’t read the source material) and they always seem to miss that the books are FICTION. I read the Animorphs series in elementary school, the book didn’t cause me to embrace atheism, even though the author is an atheist. All this hysteria directed at Harry Potter because “ZOMG impressionable children might read it and turn into Satanists!!!” is silly IMO.

 

[_Gandalf]

Personally I find that one of the biggest reasons to avoid magic is that it simply doesn’t tend to lead one to God.

The same could be said for a plethora of things. The internet for one, or just technology as a whole. If I took this argument to the extreme, we’d all be Amish.
Your path is what decides your destination. Magic is not a path, more like a walking stick. You can take it with you down any road, but the road is up to you.

. In fact magic tends to take someone in the complete opposite direction and becomes most certainly a temptation to perform evil acts and fall into diabolism.

Umm… No, sorry, but this is just wrong. Anyone practicing Witchcraft is Pagan, and therefore doesn’t believe in Satan. Therefore practicing magic can’t lead one into Diabolism. In a sense, you could say it takes you in the opposite direction. It’s hard to worship something you don’t think exists.

The Harry Potter Series even brings this message across as the Dark Arts are available but where are the Light Arts? There are none because magic fails to enter into the realm of godliness.

The Harry Potter series is a far cry from reality, though in it there is a whole branch of magic designed to combat “the dark arts”, as well as the other benign/beneficial stuff.
As a Witch, I can say absolutely that there is nothing in those books designed to sway one to Witchcraft, or somehow convey that it’s okay to be evil. If you like, I could explain why, though I’m going to let my point rest undefended for now.

I’m not Wiccan, but I can tell you that no Wiccan I’ve ever met has practiced animal sacrifice.

You know, I was going to say something of that sort, but I decided against it. I don’t really know a lot about the different forms of Wicca, so I figured it would be best to not state it one way or the other. Though I have never known a Wiccan who did do animal sacrifice. I think it would violate their understanding of the rule of three.
Plus it’s illegal. That’s got to count for something.

 

[_Gandalf]

Oh stick around. Some of us have seriously been told when trying to point out what you are trying to say about Harry Potter that the neccesity to be familiar with source material to critique it is a ‘modernist and diversionary’ claim and that the books are a series of books ‘about witch children learning witchcraft at a witch school’.

Those books are irrelevant though. I’m not sure why some teen fantasy/fiction books are even being discussed here.

 

[fred_conty]

An interesting question. I haven’t read the articles in particular, but I can give you a general summation of my thoughts on devils.

I believe that there are spiritual, or otherwise non-corporeal beings in existence. I believe that this is largely what has inspired the ideas behind angels and daemons. Though like people, some of them are good, some evil, and some simply neutral. You could, if you wanted to, refer to some of the more unpleasant spirits as daemons if you wished, but I disagree with some of the minor meanings of the word “daemon”. If you define it as a spirit that has an evil nature or otherwise tends to cause trouble and havoc, then sure, I agree completely. However Catholicism and I tend to disagree with the more nit-picky details.
As far as what they can do, I honestly don’t know. I do believe possession is possible, though only if the person in question has made themselves vulnerable to begin with (One of the reasons I am against certain forms of magic. If not done properly, it is possible that something unpleasant can happen). Getting rid of them however is kind of hard to do. Once they get somewhere, they usually don’t like to leave.
About my thoughts on what happened, I don’t know. I think that possession is possible, so therefore I have no reason to believe that someone in that time frame didn’t get possessed and liberated. However, if the passage deals with more then just possession, I would have to read to to give you a more in depth answer. If you have a couple in particular that you want me to look at, I would be more than happy to do so. I will be able to give you much more info on those specific passages. As it is though I’m speaking more generally than specifically.
All in all it’s best to let sleeping dogs lie, and not mess with that type of thing in the first place. There are things out there best left alone.

Hi Gandolf,
Your reply is what the Church teaches. One of the reasons the Church says not to meddle in majic is for the reason that you gave, namely, we are better off to let these evil spirits alone. Because we cannot always know what type of spirit we may be dealing with. When you use majic, how do you determine what kind of spirit your dealing with?

 

[_Gandalf]

Hi Gandolf,
Your reply is what the Church teaches. One of the reasons the Church says not to meddle in majic is for the reason that you gave, namely, we are better off to let these evil spirits alone. Because we cannot always know what type of spirit we may be dealing with. When you use majic, how do you determine what kind of spirit your dealing with?

As far as I know (though I have not really studied this branch of magic), when doing magic involving spirits, you basically open a door and let one come through. Unless you are trying to contact a specific one, in which case I guess you could try to do it directly. Like I said though, I don’t know much of that type of magic, so I may be completely wrong.
I personally don’t do magic involving spirits. It can get kind of hairy if you don’t know exactly what you are doing, and even then you need the height of caution.

I find it notable though that you spelled “magic” with a “J”. Most of the people I know who use alternate spellings of the word are Pagans/Witches themselves, so they do that to distinguish from stage magic. Do you have a background with Paganism?

 

[Beautiful_Epona]

I have question for you Gandalf, Are you a wiccan. And if you are does that mean you do animal sacrifice. I hope i don’t offend you with this question i just want to understand the wiccan faith better.

Hello ‘Sebas’,

This is an interesting thread, thought I’d put my opinion in. I called myself Pagan/Wiccan a few years ago. I had gone back to the Catholic Church for a short time but have found, it really is not for me after all.

To get to you question. There would be no way a Wiccan, Pagan or any decent person would sacrifice animals. Most ‘Witchy’ people care a lot about the environment and are usually part of animal protection groups and a lot are Vegetarian or Vegan.

I find it sad, and surprising that people still believe that Witches/Pagans ‘may’ sacrifice animals. This is old thinking and I believe that thousands of years before Christ even lived, the lands were loved, animals cherished and Gods worshipped, and not a lot of animal sacrificing was done, except to put food in the belly’s of their children.

Please ‘Sebas’ open your mind to the beauty of other Religions, and don’t believe everything one book says. It too was written by just people, after all. Find out for yourself and you will be pleasantly surprised by the wonderfully beautiful things you will see and the gorgeous hearts and souls most people have.

Good luck with your spiritual journey.

 

[amber_lux]

I’m not sure why some teen fantasy/fiction books are even being discussed here.

Especially since they are Christian teen fantasy/fiction books.

It might be expecting too much of people, to expect them to have read The Book of Common Prayer enough times to recognize when it was quoted, or paraphrased in that series.

Amber

 

[Lokabrenna]

Hello ‘Sebas’,
I find it sad, and surprising that people still believe that Witches/Pagans ‘may’ sacrifice animals. This is old thinking and I believe that thousands of years before Christ even lived, the lands were loved, animals cherished and Gods worshipped, and not a lot of animal sacrificing was done, except to put food in the belly’s of their children.

What? This isn’t true at all! Sacrifice was an integral part of Ancient Greek religion; the meat was eaten afterwards, but in rich city states like Athens it was performed quite frequently! Among certain Germanic tribes, there is some evidence that humans were sacrificed (by being drowned in a bog) and criminals were routinely offered to Odin, and their meat was certainly not consumed.

There are also some African diasporic religions (Vodou is a notable one) that still do practice animal sacrifice, but most don’t identify as Pagan. I understand that modern Pagans do want to disassociate themselves from such things, but to say that historically “not a lot of sacrificing was done” is just BS.

 

[fred_conty]

As far as I know (though I have not really studied this branch of magic), when doing magic involving spirits, you basically open a door and let one come through. Unless you are trying to contact a specific one, in which case I guess you could try to do it directly. Like I said though, I don’t know much of that type of magic, so I may be completely wrong.
I personally don’t do magic involving spirits. It can get kind of hairy if you don’t know exactly what you are doing, and even then you need the height of caution.

I find it notable though that you spelled “magic” with a “J”. Most of the people I know who use alternate spellings of the word are Pagans/Witches themselves, so they do that to distinguish from stage magic. Do you have a background with Paganism?

HI,
What I have a good background in is with misspelling.

So if you are not into calling on any particular spirit, then the magic you are interested is like a magician’s stage magic?

What type of magic would you consider the weegee board?

 

[Beautiful_Epona]

What? This isn’t true at all! Sacrifice was an integral part of Ancient Greek religion; the meat was eaten afterwards, but in rich city states like Athens it was performed quite frequently! Among certain Germanic tribes, there is some evidence that humans were sacrificed (by being drowned in a bog) and criminals were routinely offered to Odin, and their meat was certainly not consumed.

There are also some African diasporic religions (Vodou is a notable one) that still do practice animal sacrifice, but most don’t identify as Pagan. I understand that modern Pagans do want to disassociate themselves from such things, but to say that historically “not a lot of sacrificing was done” is just BS.

Ok, so I may not be up on all of my History I know animals were sacrificed, my main point was simply to state that ‘today’ people do not do this, or at least in the Western countries, if they did they would end up in jail. It is old thinking in that way, that is all I was trying to say.

And, hey, I was on your side here

 

[_Gandalf]

To get to you question. There would be no way a Wiccan, Pagan or any decent person would sacrifice animals. Most ‘Witchy’ people care a lot about the environment and are usually part of animal protection groups and a lot are Vegetarian or Vegan.

Very true. In fact, Pagans/Witches tend to put a higher value on animal life than Christians. Personally I find the concept of animal sacrifice repugnant.

…and not a lot of animal sacrificing was done, except to put food in the belly’s of their children.

I think it happened more often then you give it credit for, though I agree with your main point.

So if you are not into calling on any particular spirit, then the magic you are interested is like a magician’s stage magic?

…No. I am not. I can barely do a card trick, but I can practice magic. And by magic, I mean real magic, not that smoke and mirrors stuff. Not all magic involves spirits, only a some of it.

What type of magic would you consider the weegee board?

Ouija boards, in my opinion, are very dangerous and should under no circumstances be used by someone who is not an experienced practitioner. I wouldn’t really classify them as magic though, since there is no caster. It’s a way to try to channel a spirit. The problem is, pretty much anything can come through if it wants to.
Like I said earlier, no one who does not have knowledge in that field should even touch the things, and I personally don’t mess with them even though I could probably do it safely. I just don’t like adding variables when I can avoid it.

And, hey, I was on your side here

And thank you for it. Though you may be mistaken about how things where 2,500 years ago, you are spot on about the modern day practices. Animal sacrifice is a rare and kind of extremist practice in Neo-Paganism.