Magic in Video Games

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Teneth

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Hello,

I think I know the answer but I just wanted to confirm. Do Catholics forbid or possibly discourage playing video games with magic such as Everquest, World of Warcraft, League of Legends etc.? Has any official in the Catholic church commented on these matters or similar ones?

I’ve searched other threads and it seems like most of the community accepts it but I just wanted to be sure. I think this issue is difficult for me because of my past. I was baptized a Catholic but never really raised as one. I went to church once or twice a year with the family and I think it was an Episcopal church. While I was young, I played aloottt of Everquest and you could say I was addicted or probably overly attached to this game. While I was in college I was saved and became part of a fairly strict protestant church (I think Catholics don’t use the word saved but you know what I mean). While I was part of that church I think I accepted the fact that a lot about my past life wasn’t good including the whole issue of magic, fantasy-type games. I didn’t play them at all for awhile.

I’ve since left that church and also have normalized some of my thinking. I’m also thinking about becoming Catholic (I actually probably will become Catholic and I’m just learning more about the church). I think this is an issue for me because I used to be so into Everquest and the whole fantasy-genre. When I became saved I learned that using magic is a pretty bad sin (I think) so I thought I had to stop playing the games. Does anybody have any advice or maybe a different perspective for me?

Thank you,
-Colin
 
I would say that for a function of a video game, there isn’t an issue. It is sort of like how The Lord of the Rings has magic to help tell the story, and yet it is a profoundly Catholic work. That isn’t just theory, as Tolkien was a devout Catholic his entire life. It is the actual pursuit or practice of magic in the real world that is dangerous and sinful. When you cast a spell in a video game, you’re probably just pressing a button. You aren’t actually trying to invoke some sort of arcane power.

As a note, becoming attached to video games is a whole other matter. As you say you were addicted before, it would be a good idea to be wary of diving into an immersive fictional world if you may be prone to losing something of yourself in the game.
 
Teneth said:
Hello,

I think I know the answer but I just wanted to confirm. Do Catholics forbid or possibly discourage playing video games with magic such as Everquest, World of Warcraft, League of Legends etc.? Has any official in the Catholic church commented on these matters or similar ones?

I’ve searched other threads and it seems like most of the community accepts it but I just wanted to be sure. I think this issue is difficult for me because of my past. I was baptized a Catholic but never really raised as one. I went to church once or twice a year with the family and I think it was an Episcopal church. While I was young, I played aloottt of Everquest and you could say I was addicted or probably overly attached to this game. While I was in college I was saved and became part of a fairly strict protestant church (I think Catholics don’t use the word saved but you know what I mean). While I was part of that church I think I accepted the fact that a lot about my past life wasn’t good including the whole issue of magic, fantasy-type games. I didn’t play them at all for awhile.

I’ve since left that church and also have normalized some of my thinking. I’m also thinking about becoming Catholic (I actually probably will become Catholic and I’m just learning more about the church). I think this is an issue for me because I used to be so into Everquest and the whole fantasy-genre. When I became saved I learned that using magic is a pretty bad sin (I think) so I thought I had to stop playing the games. Does anybody have any advice or maybe a different perspective for me?

Thank you,
-Colin
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Welcome, Colin! 👍

First of all, if you’ve been “addicted” to Everquest in your youth, you weren’t the only one.

Second,the only media the Catholic Catechism expressly forbids to my knowledge is pornography.

Now, there was an article on Catholic Encyclopedia (I forget which one, maybe duties) which talks about entertainment as being neither really good nor bad. Some moralists have debated that more specifically. 🤷

The Catholic Church has always respect artistic creativity and the Church’s POV is quite different from that of other Christian denominations. I know some Protestants came out strong against Harry Potter, but the Catholic Church was fine with the series based on themes of fellowship and such.

The only issue I see with videogames is that they can distract us from our duties. Games such as Everquest (I’m not up to speed on World of Warcraft or the on-line Starfleet game) have the particular issue of not ending and my, can the time fly!

Now, actually using magic and divination is where sin may come into play.
**I’ve searched other threads **
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There’s an amount of diminishing return on that.

I’m not sure at what stage you are with becoming/returning to being Catholic, but I would refer you to a priest to discuss this question and other issues.

I wanted to give you some context, though. My impression is that you need to be careful not to pigeon hole yourself into a bland, narrow view that makes the Catholic Church seem boring and uninteresting, because there is a lot of creative expression and appreciation throughout the history of the Church and it’s one reason it has such a large number of followers. 👍
 
The only one I am aware of is the board game of dungeons and dragons. The main reason from what I understand was its accurate portrayal occult materials. There is a point that art should not imitate reality, but this is what D&D did. It was enough to lead to a fascination with the occult for some people.

I am not aware of this in the videos games you mentioned. However, it is worth mentioning there is the possibility of addiction, and online games are notorious for being time sinks in people’s lives.

I have not come across an official stance by the Church aside from avoid gluttony (in the sense of using a something for more pleasure than it was designed for). Talking to a priest would be good advice in this case, however science has been more vocal about hazards involving screen based entertainment:

bbc.co.uk/news/health-18149510
nature.com/tp/journal/v1/n11/full/tp201153a.html

God Bless
 
While I think its harmless in video games, it does de-sensitize people to this kind of thing.

But Im not sure if that is good or bad, as I cant name a time in my life when I have EVER seen anyone do REAL magic, I realize it probably is done and practiced by lots of people in the world, (surprisingly though, we dont see any youtube videos of people doing real magic, this is something Ive wondered about, as it seems the type of world we live in, there would be alot of people openly practicing magic…??) Maybe Im just not looking in the right places though.

Im just kind of surprised we dont see more people using magic to get what they want, like robbing banks, or cheating someone out of money, etc. There is clearly no moral reason holding people back, so…are we just not told about cases like this, or…?
 
There are really two issues involved with video games (and not necessarily only fantasy-genre)–and that is that they can become a big time sink that causes one to neglect actual responsibilities. Based on the description of previous issues with Everquest (wasn’t that the one nicknamed “Ever-crack”?), video games with open endings would be a strong yellow to red light. Not because of the use of magic in fantasy-genre games, but that it’s too easy to end up spending inordinate amounts of time (and possibly real-world money for games where you can purchase in-game things with real-world money).

If, however, the problem is not spending too much time in a given entertainment, then it really doesn’t matter about the magic. Fantasy magic is not real world magic, nor is it related to the occult. Dungeons & Dragons doesn’t have any connection to the occult. Basically, magic is nothing more than an in-game mechanism for achieving an in-game end … just like the sword in the fighter’s hand, the machine gun in the character’s hand in Call of Duty, or other in-game abilities which may or may not correspond to real-world abilities.
 
Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. Yes I guess I need to re-think some of this. Most of the catholic responses I’ve heard seem to not have a problem with this. And the more I think about it, as a kid, I didn’t have a problem with magic - it was more of a problem of being too attached to the video game.

Thanks
-Colin
 
SinnersAnonymus said:
The only one I am aware of is the board game of dungeons and dragons. The main reason from what I understand was its accurate portrayal occult materials. There is a point that art should not imitate reality, but this is what D&D did. It was enough to lead to a fascination with the occult for some people.
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:doh2:

Here’s how you use magic in D&D. “I cast [insert spell here]”

The only way I can think of that the game’s affected me negatively is that I still laugh maniacally when I think of Tomb of Horrors. (One of the most infamously difficult -]meat grinders/-] dungeons ever designed)
 
SinnersAnonymus said:
The only one I am aware of is the board game of dungeons and dragons. The main reason from what I understand was its accurate portrayal occult materials. There is a point that art should not imitate reality, but this is what D&D did. It was enough to lead to a fascination with the occult for some people.
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I wouldn’t say there’s anything remotely realistic (or positive) about D&D’s portrayal of the occult. You could argue that the RPG-playing subculture has negative effects on people, but I don’t think one can accurately state that either the books themselves or all the groups that use them are pro-occult.

As for video games, I’ll echo everyone else. Fantasy magic isn’t generally a problem (although it theoretically could be one, if handled badly), but it’s important not to let games and entertainment take over your life.
 
I had to dust off a few bookshelves for this one.🤓 There was a book published in 1989 titled The Devil’s Web by Huntington House Inc., written by Pat Pulling. The Pulling family had lost their son to the occult which drove Pat Pulling to study how pervasive the occult was in America.

Based on the *Advanced Dungeon Master’s Guide *circa 1980’s there was a sub-group dedicated to Demonic Summoning. A role-player could go down this path for their character, however the aspects of summoning included concepts such as pentagrams, summoning circles, and many other items and procedures used during real life occult practices.

I came across this book a couple years back in a spiritual retreat’s library and it was an eye-opener for me since I grew up with close friends who are into D&D. I always thought the people saying it was bad was all hype, however I was somewhat mistaken. I am not sure if during the last 30 or so years any changes have occurred. However, Pat Puller does specify several criminal cases whose perpetrators identified D&D as the gateway drug into the occult.

I do not play D&D, however at this point, I have no reason to doubt these accounts spelled out in historical literature.

As far as magic in videogame goes, mashing on keyboards and such, I would imagine the risk is interest in the unknown or occult. However, most of the rubbish I have seen friends play does not strike me as a something to worry about. Aside from being highly addictive of course. Videogames are set up to use basic gambling psychology (things like randomized rewards and randomized intervals) mixed with interactive elements. It can be very fun, to the point one loses track of a whole day or more.

God Bless
 
Contrary to popular perception, the Catholic Church really is not about micromanaging every aspect of our lives. I know that – with my personality – I always appreciate clear-cut directives that I can simply follow to the letter and not give additional thought to. But that’s not always (or often) how the Church operates.

The Church gives us the general guiding moral principles, and gives pretty explicit condemnations on most of the big stuff. But for things like which video game to play or which movie to watch, we generally have to exercise our well-formed conscience and make the determination for ourselves.

A lot of it can vary from person to person. For me, I generally can see two types of magic used in fiction. One is the fantastical type of magic – which is far more common. The other is the occult-based magic, which more or less tries to be true to life. I don’t encounter that very much.

For the fantastical type of magic, I see very little danger as it is so far removed from reality. But someone else might view it differently. Perhaps they might look to it and feel pulled to explore the occult and reject Christianity. If that was the case, it would certainly be wrong for such a person to play, read, watch, etc. I personally have never met such a person, but I leave open the possibility that such people exist.

For the occult-style magic, it generally gives me the heebie-jeebies, so I avoid it for that reason alone. 🤷

As others have said, though, the issue with video games is far more often the issue of temperance and moderation. You are much more likely to sin in the misuse of time than you are to start practicing sorcery and witchcraft.

You have to know yourself and listen to where God is leading you. Not everything that is permissible is expedient to our growth in holiness. So even if it’s not unmistakably inherently sinful to play some specific game, it still might not be the best thing for you personally. Again, you have to know yourself and take it to prayer.
 
Joe_5859 said:
A lot of it can vary from person to person. For me, I generally can see two types of magic used in fiction. One is the fantastical type of magic – which is far more common. The other is the occult-based magic, which more or less tries to be true to life. I don’t encounter that very much.
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I agree. And from there, it boils down to where the line is drawn. For instance, I see Harry Potter and (most of) D&D as being on the fantastical side. Both of them because it’s explained as a fundamental law of the universe, as opposed to being some sort of demonic powers. On the other hand, the Binder from Tome of Magic (D&D 3.5 splatbook) is where things start to get too occult-y for my tastes. But at that point, it’s an extra book and completely optional if you want to use it or not.
 
Just as I wish people would stop evoking Harry Potter for the same reason. While she doesn’t make it clear that they aren’t invoking demonic powers, she also never says that they are. Really, wizard powers are as inherent to the characters as they are to Gandalf. And, in fact, there’s speculation that it might even be genetic. (Or, at the very least, the internet being the internet has analyzed Harry Potter magic genetically)
 
SinnersAnonymus said:
I had to dust off a few bookshelves for this one.🤓 There was a book published in 1989 titled The Devil’s Web by Huntington House Inc., written by Pat Pulling. The Pulling family had lost their son to the occult which drove Pat Pulling to study how pervasive the occult was in America.

Based on the *Advanced Dungeon Master’s Guide *circa 1980’s there was a sub-group dedicated to Demonic Summoning. A role-player could go down this path for their character, however the aspects of summoning included concepts such as pentagrams, summoning circles, and many other items and procedures used during real life occult practices.

I came across this book a couple years back in a spiritual retreat’s library and it was an eye-opener for me since I grew up with close friends who are into D&D. I always thought the people saying it was bad was all hype, however I was somewhat mistaken. I am not sure if during the last 30 or so years any changes have occurred. However, Pat Puller does specify several criminal cases whose perpetrators identified D&D as the gateway drug into the occult.

I do not play D&D, however at this point, I have no reason to doubt these accounts spelled out in historical literature.
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I do play AD&D, have for many years … and Pat Pulling is not at all a credible source. I’ll just offer this starting counterpoint: The Pulling Report.

As a matter of fact, I have a copy of the 1st ed DMG as well as 2nd ed DMG (but no 3 for me), and there is certainly nothing in there that scans with the charge of a ‘subgroup’ dedicated to demonic summoning.

Magic in fiction and games really is nothing more than a device–and there are plenty of other devices that get used which either cannot or should not be used in real life.

Here, though, we agree–
As far as magic in videogame goes, mashing on keyboards and such, I would imagine the risk is interest in the unknown or occult. However, most of the rubbish I have seen friends play does not strike me as a something to worry about. Aside from being highly addictive of course. Videogames are set up to use basic gambling psychology (things like randomized rewards and randomized intervals) mixed with interactive elements. It can be very fun, to the point one loses track of a whole day or more.
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.

Even games that are rather mundane (I have one that’s based on a farm–growing crops and collecting various products like eggs, wool and milk, along with some manufacturing) have a real “oh just one more minute” pull to them that one must be very disciplined to avoid.
 
As someone who used to play a lot of video games (I still do, but not nearly as much), I agree with the sentiment of it being addictive and a timesink. I would be more worried about taking time away from God to play a video game rather than some of the magical aspects, though the possible interest it may spark in the occult for people is also not a good thing. But the gambling analogy is a great one, it’s easy to get lost in a video game or to keep playing and shirk responsibilities. Same goes for reading books, or going on the computer, like Facebook! We can’t lose sight of what God really has us here for.
 
Melissa said:
I do play AD&D, have for many years … and Pat Pulling is not at all a credible source. I’ll just offer this starting counterpoint: The Pulling Report.

As a matter of fact, I have a copy of the 1st ed DMG as well as 2nd ed DMG (but no 3 for me), and there is certainly nothing in there that scans with the charge of a ‘subgroup’ dedicated to demonic summoning.

Magic in fiction and games really is nothing more than a device–and there are plenty of other devices that get used which either cannot or should not be used in real life.
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Hmmm, I will have to research this further, however a Skeptic who feels that:

*In her “The Who What When Where and How of Teen Satanism” she appends to the HOW section this curious note: “TWO BASIC PRINCIPLES APPY HERE ‘Law of Attraction’ and the ‘Law of Invitation.’” These are not laws in any judicial sense, they are “Laws of Magick” and they govern the supernatural in the same way that the Laws of Thermodynamics govern our physical reality. There is no doubt about it, Patricia Pulling fervently believes that devils and demons not only exist, but they can be summoned and used to cause physical effects in our world.

This belief system could easily be dismissed as a harmless idiosyncrasy, but it is not. Law does not recognize the existence of magick because there is no evidence to prove magick exists or is a mechanism for accomplishing anything in the world. If the law were to recognize magick as a force in our world, everyone who ever threw a dart into a picture of Quadafi could be indicted for attempted murder – and if magic were a force in the real world, the man would have expired long ago from multiple-magical dart wounds*

Unfortunately, he is somewhat biased into debunking the idea that the occult exists. This is contrary to the warnings and teachings in the Church about the occult and demonic. Either way, I highly suggest reading about Padre Pio’s feelings on the issue on how “harmless” the occult is.

Alright well here is what I found…

The demon summoner did and does exist:
dandwiki.com/wiki/Demon_Lord_(3.5e_Class

However…

The issue as it turns out is no longer there:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiend_(Dungeons_&_Dragons

*"A number of critics of Dungeons & Dragons (mostly fundamentalist Christians) have accused the game of promoting Satanism and occultism, most vociferously in the mid-1980s, but like heavy metal music, this is no longer as visible a target as it once was. Some products, particularly the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons First Edition Dungeon Master’s Guide, have shown actual symbols classically used by witches and magicians for summoning, abjuration, and protection.

TSR, Inc. eliminated most references to occult symbols, demons, and devils from the second edition of the game under great pressure from anti-D&D negative publicity. When the creatures were reintroduced in the Monstrous Compendium supplement MC8: The Outer Planes, the terms “baatezu”, “tanar’ri”, “yugoloth”, and “gehreleth” were introduced and were used exclusively in place of the terms “devil”, “demon”, “daemon”, and “demodand”, respectively.

Following a more relaxed attitude towards the hobby, Wizards of the Coast reinserted many of these excised references in the third edition of the game. This said, they kept intact the terms they had been replaced with, using both when applicable to appeal both to older players and those who played in subsequent editions of the game which introduced the use of the replacement terms (which were used during the 2nd edition of the game, in which the vast majority of material on the fiends of D&D was expanded and given depth). The latest edition of the game does not however use the 1st edition D&D term ‘Daemon’, instead continuing to use ‘Yugoloth’ in its place, leaving ‘daemon’ as an effectively defunct and abandoned term (in our world, daemon are something close to a muse, a divine inspiration in the Greek mythology and so effectively do not fill in the role of evildoer)."*

So I learned something new today. However, the concern over legit occult symbols raised by Pulling in the 80’s was valid. It seems that over time they were removed due to public concern. Given a skeptic would try to discredit the pulling book is not surprising. The claims put forth by skeptics try to discredit any aspect of faith. For example, with a weeping icon, a skeptic was called in and stated it was “wax put on beforehand which melted” then walked out. I have learned to be leery of reports by skeptics when it comes to religious matters (like how they rationalize away Padre Pio or any sort of Church validated miraculous event). Honestly a priest would be better to seek advice from.👍

God Bless
 
Razanir said:
Fixed your links. Also the first one is a strawman. That’s homebrew– a class a fan made. It’s even from dandwiki, which doesn’t have a very good reputation for the quality of stuff on the site.
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For some reason a direct link is not possible to the wiki site. But it is there under: Fiend (Dungeons & Dragons)

Honestly, I do not have a personal issue with D&D. As I stated previous some of my oldest friends play it. However, one should never mess with the occult or its symbols even unintentionally. The concern is not with the game itself, but with the symbols it once taught children to play with. For what it looks like the symbols have been removed.

God Bless
 
SinnersAnonymus said:
For some reason a direct link is not possible to the wiki site. But it is there under: Fiend (Dungeons & Dragons)

Honestly, I do not have a personal issue with D&D. As I stated previous some of my oldest friends play it. However, one should never mess with the occult or its symbols even unintentionally. The concern is not with the game itself, but with the symbols it once taught children to play with. For what it looks like the symbols have been removed.

God Bless
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  1. Links are possible IF you remember to include the final parenthesis inside the link, not outside.
  2. D’oh! Typed the wrong parenthesis. Here’s the corrected corrected wiki link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiend_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
  3. Yep. The symbols have (mostly) been removed. I’ve heard rumors, though, that they still exist in Tome of Magic with the Binder.
 
Razanir said:
:doh2:

Here’s how you use magic in D&D. “I cast [insert spell here]”

The only way I can think of that the game’s affected me negatively is that I still laugh maniacally when I think of Tomb of Horrors. (One of the most infamously difficult -]meat grinders/-] dungeons ever designed)
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Sphere of Annihilation in the statue’s mouth. Never gets old… :rotfl:
 
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