Magic in Video Games

[ProfessorWhom]

Ah yes the debate which never ends. Magic in video games. So allow me to give you some pretense to this. One night my mom walks out on the porch with a bunch of my sister’s Harry Potter books. She said that one of the church’s exorcists said that Harry Potter was evil and that the books should be burned. Now this got me thinking, “Are the video games I play any better?” So I studied them more and saw some questionable things in them. The games I am referencing in particular are Fire Emblem(Which uses variations of magic), Pokemon(which has occult ideas and the questionable Pokemon “kadabra”, The Legend of Zelda (Which in Hyrule Warriors uses sorcery and magic in the main games) , Ace Attorney(In which a character is possessed by the dead" Minecraft (which uses enchanting), and Professor Layton(Which I haven’t looked into too much) My main question is are these games sinful or can the lead me down to more sinful stuff?
My Mom always brings up the fact that the Devil is always trying to lead us astray and my cousin was being tormented by demons for “Having an open mind” I’d really like to have some thoughts on this. Thanks!

 

[KidCatholic1]

I don’t find anything wrong with magic in video games (I enjoy Pokemon myself ). I think it could only be sinful if it somehow encourages you to sin in real life or you do it to “revere” magic. Other than that, it’s just innocent. That’s my opinion.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Is this, by any chance, the same exorcist who buys into the conspiracy that Russia was not consecrated?

Because frankly, I have all but lost every respect I have for those supposedly engaged in ‘spiritual warfare.’ How do you believe that Satan is all about telling the world he doesn’t exist yet in the same breath claim that his minions take possession of anyone who dreams about waving a magic wand and flying on broomsticks?

If I was intent on making sure the world didn’t I know I existed, I wouldn’t be leaving around bread crumbs comprising of the possessed and the deranged. The entire spiritual warfare movement seems a morass of superstition, contradictions, and conspiracy theories. Now that’s what I call diabolic. I’d sooner cite the off-putting proclamations of this camp for justifying my lapsed Catholic behavior rather than something as irrelevant as my choice of fiction and entertainment. I could be an armchair historian who loves basketball and burgers yet still reach the same conclusions. Because really, that’s how irrelevant my fascination for fantasy is when it comes to how skewed this particular group inside the Church is.

Consider that something to think about the next time your mother keeps subscribing to their views. Normally, I’d respond to threads like this with funny pictures but you know, I have officially grown tired of this. For a Church that’s so intent in rooting out liberals, homosexuals, and dissidents, it sure is comfortably refraining from taking those actions against spiritually questionable people who think the devil is under every fantasy book and video game.

Yet people wonder why ‘the world hates the Church.’ God help Pope Francis if these people keep insisting that they are what it means to be a ‘true Catholic.’

 

[Kurisu35712]

You literally just listed all of my favorite video games.

Fire Emblem in particular has an enormous cast of exceptionally engaging characters (as does Dynasty Warriors, which is another favorite of mine), who instill the values of friendship, loyalty, self-sacrifice, etc. etc. Not dissimilar to the characters and plot of Harry Potter.

Pokemon, likewise. Also teaches respect for the environment to a degree, as well as the importance of teamwork (if you train your Pokemon right anyway). I posted a response to another poster who asked if playing a video game was sinful because one of the tools in the game was named “Zeus.” A name does not make an entire video game/story/series/thing sinful. That would be absurd and is honestly making me even more concerned you might suffer from scrupulosity. You need to talk to a good priest or spiritual director. It’s like OCD about sin, and it can be very spiritually harmful. Far more harmful than playing a videogame with a character named “Kadabra.”

Legend of Zelda is a fantasy universe. You aren’t going out and chanting incantations trying to summon the Triforce in your backyard, because that’s absurd and unrealistic. Magic in a videogame is only occult if you go out and expect those things to actually do something in the real world. It’s a video game. If you can’t separate fantasy from reality, you shouldn’t be playing them in the first place, and if you can there is no problem to speak of.

Your Ace Attorney example seems like nitpicking. Do you actually believe the dead can possess people and have an effect on law cases? If not, then it’s not a sin and you have nothing to worry about. If so, you need to see a priest because that’s an unfounded belief and the Church teaches that this doesn’t happen in real life.

Some would say that anything can be sinful, which is true. But knowing why you’re asking these somewhat extreme questions, I will provide the following answer. None of the things you have listed are in any way sinful. Harry Potter books will not lead you to practice the occult if you can separate reality from fiction. Legend of Zelda will not lead you to smash people’s pots and cut their chickens, because I’m going to assume you’re a reasonable person with an understanding of social boundaries in real life vs. a video game. I’m going to assume that you aren’t going to go try to fight a lumberjack with a sword instead of a spear because you might get 2x hits in and a better chance to block. Because I imagine you are capable of separating Fire Emblem’s combat system from a real life conversation with another human being.

The devil can attack us in many ways, so we should certainly be vigilant to resist temptations and keep ourselves from sinning. But playing Pokemon in your free time isn’t going to get you possessed or something. That’s absurd.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Ah yes the debate which never ends. Magic in video games. So allow me to give you some pretense to this. One night my mom walks out on the porch with a bunch of my sister’s Harry Potter books. She said that one of the church’s exorcists said that Harry Potter was evil and that the books should be burned. Now this got me thinking, “Are the video games I play any better?” So I studied them more and saw some questionable things in them. The games I am referencing in particular are Fire Emblem(Which uses variations of magic), Pokemon(which has occult ideas and the questionable Pokemon “kadabra”, The Legend of Zelda (Which in Hyrule Warriors uses sorcery and magic in the main games) , Ace Attorney(In which a character is possessed by the dead" Minecraft (which uses enchanting), and Professor Layton(Which I haven’t looked into too much) My main question is are these games sinful or can the lead me down to more sinful stuff?
My Mom always brings up the fact that the Devil is always trying to lead us astray and my cousin was being tormented by demons for “Having an open mind” I’d really like to have some thoughts on this. Thanks!

It’s pretty well established that artistic endeavors such as these are fine so long as they are not near occasions of sin or the cause of sin for something else. So fantasy is fine in the manner you are describing.

The real debate I’ve heard moralists have about this artistic media is whether or not it gains merit or is just neutral.

The only real things people need to watch out for is pornography and misleading information about Catholic teaching, gossip and other sorts of published scandal.

 

[SuperLuigi]

You literally just listed all of my favorite video games.

Fire Emblem in particular has an enormous cast of exceptionally engaging characters (as does Dynasty Warriors, which is another favorite of mine), who instill the values of friendship, loyalty, self-sacrifice, etc. etc. Not dissimilar to the characters and plot of Harry Potter.

Pokemon, likewise. Also teaches respect for the environment to a degree, as well as the importance of teamwork (if you train your Pokemon right anyway). I posted a response to another poster who asked if playing a video game was sinful because one of the tools in the game was named “Zeus.” A name does not make an entire video game/story/series/thing sinful. That would be absurd and is honestly making me even more concerned you might suffer from scrupulosity. You need to talk to a good priest or spiritual director. It’s like OCD about sin, and it can be very spiritually harmful. Far more harmful than playing a videogame with a character named “Kadabra.”

Legend of Zelda is a fantasy universe. You aren’t going out and chanting incantations trying to summon the Triforce in your backyard, because that’s absurd and unrealistic. Magic in a videogame is only occult if you go out and expect those things to actually do something in the real world. It’s a video game. If you can’t separate fantasy from reality, you shouldn’t be playing them in the first place, and if you can there is no problem to speak of.

Your Ace Attorney example seems like nitpicking. Do you actually believe the dead can possess people and have an effect on law cases? If not, then it’s not a sin and you have nothing to worry about. If so, you need to see a priest because that’s an unfounded belief and the Church teaches that this doesn’t happen in real life.

Some would say that anything can be sinful, which is true. But knowing why you’re asking these somewhat extreme questions, I will provide the following answer. None of the things you have listed are in any way sinful. Harry Potter books will not lead you to practice the occult if you can separate reality from fiction. Legend of Zelda will not lead you to smash people’s pots and cut their chickens, because I’m going to assume you’re a reasonable person with an understanding of social boundaries in real life vs. a video game. I’m going to assume that you aren’t going to go try to fight a lumberjack with a sword instead of a spear because you might get 2x hits in and a better chance to block. Because I imagine you are capable of separating Fire Emblem’s combat system from a real life conversation with another human being.

The devil can attack us in many ways, so we should certainly be vigilant to resist temptations and keep ourselves from sinning. But playing Pokemon in your free time isn’t going to get you possessed or something. That’s absurd.

I think the larger concern surrounding this kind of media should be how much time is spent on it. Does it interfere with someone’s duties?

 

[ProfessorWhom]

Thank you all for your valuable (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ll show it to her and see what she thinks.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Magic in a videogame is only occult if you go out and expect those things to actually do something in the real world. It’s a video game. If you can’t separate fantasy from reality, you shouldn’t be playing them in the first place, and if you can there is no problem to speak of.

You can actually take it further and say that even on the off-chance that fictional magic is real, is it really occult? I have often asked the so-called ‘spiritual combatants’ why shooting water out of your hand is satanic.

Never got an answer. Not even once.

I don’t know about you but I think there’s something far more sinister lying in their minds than just an incapacity to tell fiction from fact. Most real occult practices involve subscribing to obscure, neo-pagan world view and droll rites of nature worship.

And yet, in fantasy realities, the subject is far, faaaar more academic.

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Heck, if I were a fantasy wizard, I wouldn’t be sounding like this:

"O Goddess… we thank you for thy bounty and for the blessing of the land…dances around a tree

A day in the life of this wizard would look more like this:

Mac: knocks on door

Sis: opens door B(

Mac: Hey, is your brother around?

Sis: He’s working. B(

BOOM!!!

screaming, burning goblin flies overhead

Me: comes down covered in soot Hey Mac, just here to tell you that your Dragonfire Hammer is now fully operational… aaaand you’re paying for that goblin. BP

 

[Kurisu35712]

You can actually take it further and say that even on the off-chance that fictional magic is real, is it really occult? I have often asked the so-called ‘spiritual combatants’ why shooting water out of your hand is satanic.

Never got an answer. Not even once.

I don’t know about you but I think there’s something far more sinister lying in their minds than just an incapacity to tell fiction from fact. Most real occult practices involve subscribing to obscure, neo-pagan world view and droll rites of nature worship.

And yet, in fantasy realities, the subject is far, faaaar more academic.

Valid point. I hadn’t even thought about that bit. Frankly, if the magic they use in any of the video games mentioned here is somehow demonic, so is every superhero story, because it’s literally the same situation.

Not to mention, if they gain their powers through occult or somehow conventionally “evil” means, they’re generally an antagonist and the whole point is to stop them anyway.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Not to mention, if they gain their powers through occult or somehow conventionally “evil” means, they’re generally an antagonist and the whole point is to stop them anyway.

It also plays out a pathetically overdone and self-labeled ‘Christian’ cliche that the devil gets all dibs on out-of-ordinary occurrences. Such weak cliches are nothing more of an excuse to say, “Only evil people need superpowers! I have God on my side!”

Pathetic. Just pathetic. It’s the novelist equivalent to saying “Only evil people are rich/healthy/happy! I have God on my side!”

 

[CesarAugustus]

Someting basic to consider:

The world presented there are based on reality, of fantasy constructs?

Likewise, the magic portrayed there, is part of the world-building, or based on occult systems from reality?

Next:

Even if fantasy, what is the nature of the magic the good characters have access to? divinely inspired like the one in LOTR? or the source are the in-game depictions of demons, etc?

The paranoia present in these things, has certain problems, one of them, that by pointing at innocuous examples (think a fantasy game without links or references to occult systems, etc), when someone is going to point to something legitimately suspicious, is going to be received with distrust, or even mockery, etc.

 

[ProfessorWhom]

I have often asked the so-called ‘spiritual combatants’ why shooting water out of your hand is satanic.

Never got an answer. Not even once. :

From what i’ve gathered the reason magic and sorcery are evil (Aside from a demonic origin) is that it’s turning away from God to seek out unnatural forces for ones personal gain.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

From what i’ve gathered the reason magic and sorcery are evil (Aside from a demonic origin) is that it’s turning away from God to seek out unnatural forces for ones personal gain.

That’s my point. By that reasoning, electricity should’ve never been industrialized, we should eat food raw, and heck let’s all go back to living in caves!

That’s as natural humanity is ever going to get. But in reality, our tech is nothing more than a medieval peasant’s magic. We tap into ‘unnatural’ forces everyday.

 

[MPat]

My main question is are these games sinful or can the lead me down to more sinful stuff?

If they are sinful, there must be some argument showing which commandment is broken and how. It hasn’t been presented. However, the descriptions you give (unless I have misinterpreted them) seem to be somewhat similar to the ones that could also be given to part of Bible concerning Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28). Reading Bible is unlikely to be sinful… Also, it looks like claims that they are an occasion of sin rather than a sin are more common…

Can those games lead you to more sinful stuff? I don’t know. That depends on you.

My Mom always brings up the fact that the Devil is always trying to lead us astray and my cousin was being tormented by demons for “Having an open mind” I’d really like to have some thoughts on this. Thanks!

Is the part about your cousin meant to point out that you are likely to be more susceptible to such things than others?

Let’s take a different example, that (hopefully) is less controversial - drinking. Getting drunk is a sin. Drinking might lead to that. But drinking moderately is not wrong. Still, if I look around and see neighbours and relatives that suffer or suffered from alcoholism, it might show that there is a reason for me to think that I might be susceptible to becoming a drunkard (for genetic or cultural reasons) and to avoid alcohol. It is also OK to encourage others to do likewise. On the other hand, it is not OK to attack the ones who avoid that same sin differently. That is likely to lead to other sins. Perhaps something like that would apply here as well?

One more thing to consider is the alternative. If you would avoid those games, what else would you do? Are you likely to do something sinful, or something good?

Because frankly, I have all but lost every respect I have for those supposedly engaged in ‘spiritual warfare.’ How do you believe that Satan is all about telling the world he doesn’t exist yet in the same breath claim that his minions take possession of anyone who dreams about waving a magic wand and flying on broomsticks?

Wouldn’t that be a bit too harsh? Have you checked every exorcist?

Also, if they are called to help the ones that are possessed and find something, what other conclusion can they be expected to make? They are unlikely to be good at statistics (for the simple reason that hardly anyone is good at statistics), they do not know how common that “something” is in the general population (they are not given a chance to investigate everyone else), and there doesn’t seem to be a way to perform a double-blind experiment anyway…

 

[ProfessorWhom]

s the part about your cousin meant to point out that you are likely to be more susceptible to such things than others?

It was more of a warning that the devil is always out there trying to lead us astray, but you make a very good point.

 

[ProfessorWhom]

That’s my point. By that reasoning, electricity should’ve never been industrialized, we should eat food raw, and heck let’s all go back to living in caves!

That’s as natural humanity is ever going to get. But in reality, our tech is nothing more than a medieval peasant’s magic. We tap into ‘unnatural’ forces everyday.

I don’t recall calling upon demonic forces or sacrificing anyone to make toast, but maybe i’m mistaken.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t recall calling upon demonic forces or sacrificing anyone to make toast, but maybe i’m mistaken.

But it’s not natural! BREAD IS NOT NATURAL!!! IT IS ALCHEMY!!! MUFFINS ARE FROM SATAAAAAAN! CONFESS YOUR SIIIIIIIINS!!!

http://static.gamesradar.com/images...s defamed by games/madmonk--article_image.jpg



Honestly, this is why I don’t like working with Clerics or Paladins. Unless they’re female. And they’re pretty. And yeah, I won’t have one without the other.

What were we talking about?