Magic is evil: How can we know this?

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Laurence_of_PA

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Putting all skepticism aside, we shall assume right off the bat that magical phenomena – in at least some of its forms – is real (I could personally testify that I have seen or at least heard of things which are beyond all honest skepticism, but I would not like to discuss them in depth here). So, for our intents and purposes, we shall *assume *in this thread that magic is real.

But: Is it evil???

On one side of the fence, I have heard people say how all magic is the anti-thesis of Christianity, that without a doubt it is manifested by the devil, and that therefore it can lead only to destructive things.

On the other side of the fence, I have heard that magic is a very promising field, yet we aren’t realizing its full potential because Christian influence in our culture is preventing magical phenomena from being accepted or understand. Or in other words, if bias against magic were removed, it could have spiritual and physical benefits beyond our current comprehension.

But with so many forms of magic and so many good-intentioned people performing it (take Edgar Cayce for example), how do we know it’s evil? After all, there are Christians who only practice their religion for personal gain! :dts:
 
There may be Christians who are out for personal gain, and this is a sin - not because they are Christian but because of their own selfish desires.

Magic, however, is evil by definition. When a person tries to perform magic (for whatever intention they say it is) they are taking pure space/time forces which are purely God’s domain, and trying to fool themselves into thinking it is THEIR domain.

This is a direct example of the sin of pride. There might be other reasons, too, but I see this as the most obvious one.
 
Here’s an appropriate section from the Catechism:

**Divination and magic **

**2115 **God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

**2116 **All forms of *divination *are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

**2117 **All practices of *magic *or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. *Spiritism *often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
 
exoflare said:
Magic, however, is evil by definition. When a person tries to perform magic (for whatever intention they say it is) they are taking pure space/time forces which are purely God’s domain, and trying to fool themselves into thinking it is THEIR domain.
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The magician tries to manipulate supernatural powers. The religious man, Christian or pagan, tries to give them honour.

In Christian terms, attempts to manipulate demons are at best highly ill-advised, because demons are clever and good at manipulating magicians. Attempts to manipulate God or good angels are inherently misconceived. Almost always magic is allied to a silly and superior attitude to the Church.
 
Magic is evil because the Bible says so.

Deuteronomy 18:10-14.

Please read the Word of God yourself.
 
Are you talking about so-called magic tricks like pulling a rabbit out of hat and making an elephant disappear?

Or are you talking about manipulating the spiritual world?

Thanks.
 
Cat said:
Are you talking about so-called magic tricks like pulling a rabbit out of hat and making an elephant disappear?.
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That’s a good point. These kind of tricks would be considered illusion and are harmless fun.
 
Laurence_of_PA said:
Putting all skepticism aside, we shall assume right off the bat that magical phenomena – in at least some of its forms – is real (I could personally testify that I have seen or at least heard of things which are beyond all honest skepticism, but I would not like to discuss them in depth here). So, for our intents and purposes, we shall *assume *in this thread that magic is real.

But: Is it evil???

On one side of the fence, I have heard people say how all magic is the anti-thesis of Christianity, that without a doubt it is manifested by the devil, and that therefore it can lead only to destructive things.

On the other side of the fence, I have heard that magic is a very promising field, yet we aren’t realizing its full potential because Christian influence in our culture is preventing magical phenomena from being accepted or understand. Or in other words, if bias against magic were removed, it could have spiritual and physical benefits beyond our current comprehension.

But with so many forms of magic and so many good-intentioned people performing it (take Edgar Cayce for example), how do we know it’s evil? After all, there are Christians who only practice their religion for personal gain! :dts:
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It is wrong because:​

  • It attempts to gain what God has not seen fit to grant
  • IOW: it says “not thy will, but Mine, be done”
  • So it ignores our total dependence on God
  • when we try to wrench from Him what for our good & His Glory He has not given us - but, in His good time, may give under other circumstances; sometimes, we do not receive, because it would be against our good for us to do so
  • All of which is to forget our status as creatures
  • How do we love God, if we behave like that ? Magic is against the love we owe to Him
  • Christ did not behave in this way
  • All magic has been condemned clearly in the Bible…
  • …& as though that were not more than enough, by the teaching of the Church throughout the ages…
  • …by other Christian bodies…
  • …by other religions…
  • …by many non-Jews & non-Christians of antiquity;
  • …by the example of many saints.
    There is all the difference in the world between those who used it because they lacked the fullness of revelation in Christ (the Egyptians & Babylonians both made religious use of it); & Christians, who have every reason to know better. IMHO, many Babylonians will rise up at the Last Day in condemnation of Christians who have used magic
Apart from anything else, it denies that God is Lord, because it attempts to coerce Him; that, or it denies Him entirely. This sort of forgetfulness is at the heart of unbelief - again & again, the Jews were rebuked in the Bible for having “forgotten God”; not only did they do so, but magic was often a symptom of this forgetfulness.

Magic is a snare, a lie, & a delusion - of course it’s attractive; if we saw it as it is, none of us would touch it with a 50-foot pole. But it is man-centred, & not God-centred: therefore, evil. Quite apart from the evil fruits of such practices. If it were harmless or good, why do no Saints encourage it ? They condemned it - in Acts 19, St.Paul’s converts burned their magic books. Saints have turned from it, repented of it - never encouraged it.
 
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” – Clarke’s Third Law of Prediction
 
Well, while we’re trading sf quotes, “Magic is a matter of symbolism and intent.” If you’re trying to do magic and you know magic’s a sin, you’re trying to sin. If you happen to be turning the key on a highly advanced car you only think is magic, you’re still trying to sin. Boy, that’d be a stupid way to go to Hell.

And as we all know, technology is bad as soon as you try to “play God”. So yes, there is a certain similarity between technology and magic in the moral way of looking at things.
 
Cat said:
Are you talking about so-called magic tricks like pulling a rabbit out of hat and making an elephant disappear?

Or are you talking about manipulating the spiritual world?

Thanks.
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I wish I were talking about bunny rabbits, they’re so warm and comforting compared to the real ****.

So far I gotta admit the answers have been satisfying, but I still confess this kind of stuff (the real stuff: no bunnies or top hats included) scares me down to the core of my being, mostly cause there’s simply no denying it’s all true.

But I always wondered, what can you do about it? This may seem a little selfish or vain (cause it is), but how would you protect yourself from it, I mean from all those demons and little mystical powers here and there?

Also, how do you even know they’re all demons? I’ve heard so many ghost stories (especially “Ghosts of Gettysburg” stuff) about things you wouldn’t believe. With the Ghosts of Gettysburg stuff for example, we’re talking about farm-boys-turned-soldiers who died in the most greusome fashion amidst the warm blood of their friends’ corpses while defending such ideals as freedom from slavery. Unless they are all demons in disguise, it is these types of boys (yes, young boys) who “haunt” the fields of Gettysburg where they gave the last full measure of devotion. In my view, the people who “contact them” are far from contacting demons. What’s the Church’s stance on Ghosts?

Does prayer fend off magic or curses or spirits or whatever? Is it simply a matter of being faithful and trusting in God?, cause *my *faith hasn’t been that strong since I was five (lightyears before I first came to these forums, but I’m working on it). And, I might add, my coming here, originally, had *nothing *to do with questions about doctrine or atheism or God’s existence or morals (as you might expect). The very first question I ever posted (an Ask an Apologist that was never responded to) was about a sort of encounter I had with such magical phenomena (and right before Holy Thursday – now that was a sign!). From that point onward, I’ve had no doubt in my mind that pure materialism is pure bologna. :cool:

Kind of ironic that a demonic evil such as magic would strengthen my faith in God, but it did. :ehh:
 
Listen to the link I posted. I’ll try to paraphrase one of the comments in it.

People wouldn’t sacrifice their children to these statues of Moloch if they didn’t see some kind of magic every once in a while. People aren’t that stupid. In Kings where the worshipers of Baal tried to get their God to consume the sacrifice expected it to be consumed (or else they wouldn’t have bet their lives on it.) These magics were demonic in origin (as if the human sacrifices didn’t give that away) and demons flee God. There are written accounts (although he did not cite his source in the show) of Roman historians angry at Christians because as soon as they moved in all the local gods just weren’t working anymore.

Faith is important for especially for exorcisms, but God has given us so great a blessing with the sign of the cross, holy water, and holy salt.

Yes faith is important, but the sign of the cross, the sign under which the demon’s final fate was sealed is so strong its amazing.

Ghosts are a different story. It really depends on your culture. I’ve heard the following things from Catholics: Illusion/mind trick, souls in purgatory, demonic manifestations. I personally side for it can be souls in purgatory or demons trying to pull some foolishness, so if I offer prayers for those in purgatory best case those souls trying to contact us will have some pain assuaged, and worst case (if they’re demons) they’re working against their cause by encouraging us to pray for those in purgatory. There have been many threads on the subject.

The thing with people who “contact” spirits is we aren’t the biggest dog in the block. In fact we’re more like squirrels who have to stay in our trees, and even that doesn’t keep us safe. If we go strutting around on the ground, the realm that isn’t ours by nature, can you blame the devouring denizens of hell to pick off those who wander right between their claws? (That analogy doesn’t apply to mystics and whatnot who God has given this to them experiences as a gift, rather those who seek knowledge that isn’t theirs by right.)

You may want to break off the subjects into different threads.

Oh and all of the previous is just my opinions. I could be, and most likely am, wrong.

Edit: Oh by the way with ghosts, the apostles believed in ghosts as evidenced by the time when Jesus was walking to them on the water they thought he must have been a ghost.
 
Reading this I was wondering about representations of magic in our art and culture - such as painting a picture of a magi/magical being , playing games such as dungeons and dragons & various computer games where you can play wizardly characters & cast spells etc . Are these things OK/harmless fun , sinful of themselves or likely to lead to sin ( or does the last vary from individual to individual ? ) .

my appologies if I’ve worded the question badly/unclearly but it’s my first so please don’t shoot me 🙂

thanks in advance for any answers given
 
I_A said:
(That analogy doesn’t apply to mystics and whatnot who God has given this to them experiences as a gift, rather those who seek knowledge that isn’t theirs by right.)
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WHAT!!! :bigyikes: Where did this come from??? You’re talking on and on about realms that don’t belong to us and demonic spirits who disguise themselves with Ba’al-like stuff and how we can’t trust it and all, and then… You say God granted mystics the power to communicate with spirits of the dead?

Well now, don’t nearly all true practitioners of magic claim to be mystics (the one or two who I’ve met at least)? Are they justified?

You better defend yourself here, cause I never heard *anyone *say that certain people have been allowed into the magical/spiritual domain as a GIFT from God! From what I’ve heard so far it’s a sin.
 
Nigel71 said:
Reading this I was wondering about representations of magic in our art and culture - such as painting a picture of a magi/magical being , playing games such as dungeons and dragons & various computer games where you can play wizardly characters & cast spells etc . Are these things OK/harmless fun , sinful of themselves or likely to lead to sin ( or does the last vary from individual to individual ? ) .

my appologies if I’ve worded the question badly/unclearly but it’s my first so please don’t shoot me 🙂

thanks in advance for any answers given
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Basically role-playing games are harmless.
They can be part and parcel of an undesireable lifestyle that might involve magical practises, but the games are not themselves magical rituals, nor are the majority of players magicians.

Interestingly a highly educated friend of mine once ran a “Middle Earth Role Playing game” for several years, without once twigging that the Lord of the Rings is a Catholic novel.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
Basically role-playing games are harmless.
They can be part and parcel of an undesireable lifestyle that might involve magical practises, but the games are not themselves magical rituals, nor are the majority of players magicians.

Interestingly a highly educated friend of mine once ran a “Middle Earth Role Playing game” for several years, without once twigging that the Lord of the Rings is a Catholic novel.
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Lord of the Rings is not a Catholic Novel it is a Christian Novel since CS Lewis was not Catholic but was Christian.

The story nevertheless does reflect on many levels the story of christs sacrifice as well as some of the virtues and pitfalls he taught.
 
The novels including Lord of the Rings were written by J.R.R. Tolkien, not C.S. Lewis. Tolkien was definitely Catholic.

I don’t know that you can say the novels are “Catholic” or not. Interesting question.
 
Thanks for the replies much appreciated , Lord of the rings is by Tolkein yes by the way ( a personal favourite ) , I was particularly wondering about the gaming side of it as it’s still something I get the odd invite to do . Thanks again for the help
 
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