eightydeuce82 #2
I do sympathize as I see many of their quarrels with current stances on things and I am yet to figure out how we went from the stance we once took to the one we now hold (for instance no salvation outside the church)
So much of such confusion is simply because some don’t take the trouble to listen and learn what the Church is actually teaching which is that there is no salvation without the Catholic Church.
“By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood.
Nevertheless, equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, land, native talents, and so many other factors” (Pope Pius IX,
Singulari Quidem, 1863 A.D.).
“Some people have wished to understand this saying in the most literal sense: that is, that the person who is not formally a practicing Catholic cannot be saved. The Church has condemned such an interpretation (cf. Denzinger-Schönmetzer, 3870-3873)."
This is not to say that the maxim is false. Properly understood, it is quite true. The Latin word
extra can mean either “without” or “outside.”
The correct interpretation and sense of the maxim is that we cannot be saved without the Church. It is through the Church, which carries on and makes present the salvific work of Jesus Christ in the world, that all who are saved reach heaven (even if it is perhaps only there that they realize it). Those who, through no fault of their own, have never known Christ or his Church can still be saved. But their salvation, too, is the effect of Jesus working through his Church. In a positive sense, this theological principle “means that
all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body” (
CCC 846).[My emphases].
Encyclopedia of Catholic Doctrine, OSV].
#6
So how do you reconcile the ordinary magisterium with this idea? If all the bishops from all of the churches all over the world taught literally no salvation outside the church (literally you must be a practicing member IN the church) till VATII this would fall under the definition of infallible would it not?
Answered above.
this is the argument that’s being used for proponents of women’s ordination on JPIIs solid NO on the position. So far we are at that he made NO ex cathedra statement but we are to view it as an infallible statement since it has been the understanding and practice of the church for all of its existence. Therefor infallible. Of course others say no way!
Pope St John Paul II’s Apostolic Epistle
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, 1994, confirms the male-only priesthood as instituted by Christ Himself:
“Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”
The Pope’s own words in
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:
definitive tenendum, mean precisely “requiring to be held definitively.”
Closely following Bishop Gasser’s explanation, Vatican II shows that it considers the words “define” and “proclaim” to be equivalent by using the word “definition” when it states: “Therefore his definitions are rightly called irreformable, etc.”
Lumen Gentium, 25].
“In the final analysis, therefore, the reason the Church has always rejected female service in the sanctuary is that such service is very closely related, both symbolically and often causally, to the ministerial priesthood itself. And this can never possibly be conferred upon women, as John Paul II declared on the Feast of Pentecost last year in what is clearly an infallible, ex cathedra definition. 10
Note:
“10. It stops short, however, of being a solemn dogmatic definition on a par with those of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption, which are defined as truths of faith, binding on pain of heresy. Cf. the present writer’s article, “Cardinal Ratzinger on
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis,”
The Priest (Journal of the Australian Confraternity of Catholic Clergy), Spring 1994 / Summer 1995, pp. 5-6.”
rtforum.org/lt/lt58.html
