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ndismyhome
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Thoughts? Experiences? Interactions? Thanks!
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Swiss_Guy
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Well, you’re interacting with one now! 
But I don’t really know what you’re asking. Are you wondering, “what are they like,” or something else?
But I don’t really know what you’re asking. Are you wondering, “what are they like,” or something else?
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ndismyhome
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I was looking for people comment on how they see mainline/liberal Lutherans, how they have interacted with them, etc. Clearer?
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Swiss_Guy
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Yes. Thanks
.well, from my unbiased perspective, mainline Lutherans (not including myself) are nice people. I have quite a few ELCA friends, and they are nice. Many seem to be left-leaning socially, but fiscally conservative. Doctrine doesn’t matter as much to them as confessional Lutherans, but it matters more than, say to United Church of Christ members. It’s more about how you live your life. People believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Gratia, but Sola fide is more hit and miss. Many, if not most (at least in my parish/people I know) don’t believe in it. lay members are MUCH more conservative in general - both politically and socially - in comparison to the very liberal bishops.
It is more about how you live your life, meaning, how politically liberal you are. And this was one of the reasons I left the ELCA for the LCMS. The political advocacy policies of the ELCA are quite liberal politically, and it is reflected in their theology, and how they view scripture and the confessions. Evidence of this is the drift away from Lutheran orthodoxy regarding the clergy, and their views toward homosexuality in general.Yes. Thanks
well, from my unbiased perspective, mainline Lutherans (not including myself) are nice people. I have quite a few ELCA friends, and they are nice. Many seem to be left-leaning socially, but fiscally conservative. Doctrine doesn’t matter as much to them as confessional Lutherans, but it matters more than, say to United Church of Christ members.** It’s more about how you live your life**. People believe in Sola Scriptura and Sola Gratia, but Sola fide is more hit and miss. Many, if not most (at least in my parish/people I know) don’t believe in it.
Absolutely. My father was an ELCA pastor (LCA prior to the merger). He once wrote an op-ed piece to The Lutheran magazine expressing just this, a conservative Church with a liberal leadership - and this was in the early 1980’s.
Being politically liberal is one thing. Reinventing an understanding of the Lutheran confessions is quite another.
Jon
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Dave_Noonan
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Overall, I think they’re great! I know a number of ex-Catholics who have found Lutheranism to be a good spiritual home for them, if that’s what you are asking.
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Swiss_Guy
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Sadly, you’re right. It’s very frustrating. But the people I know who are politically conservative - at least fiscally conservative - lean theologically liberal (heterodox Lutherans)
My parents were LCA before the merge too
. But the Lutheran confessions are not taken seriously at all. Reinventing an understanding of the Lutheran confessions is not knowing what they are. I brought up the book of concord in confirmation and my confirmation class was like 
? I brought it up to my mom (lifelong Lutheran) and she was also like ? Scripture is interpreted however you want it to be, and since some parts/doctrines are “more important” than others, you can “agree” to disagree.Just few of many reasons why I will leave the ELCA someday.
Joey
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Oldtimer_7
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Swiss Guy, you leaving the ELCA will just make it that much more liberal in membership. I was LCA before it merged to form the ELCA and there are still special rules governing former LCA congregations. I have given this issue much thought and have decided that since my congregation predates the ELCA, and so does my membership in it, I will stay and fight.
Our pastor, and I suppose yours, is paid by the congregation, not the denomination. The ELCA has no power over the state synods, and especially over the individual congregations.
Our bishop tried to get a statement passed in the National Assembly to declare that the normative relationship of marriage was between a man and a woman, and that was voted down. While I would have liked to see it passed, my attitude has become “So what?” What can the National Assembly do to enforce its decrees? Not a darn thing.
Our pastor, and I suppose yours, is paid by the congregation, not the denomination. The ELCA has no power over the state synods, and especially over the individual congregations.
Our bishop tried to get a statement passed in the National Assembly to declare that the normative relationship of marriage was between a man and a woman, and that was voted down. While I would have liked to see it passed, my attitude has become “So what?” What can the National Assembly do to enforce its decrees? Not a darn thing.
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Swiss_Guy
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I used to think the same way you do now, BUT the liberalness is not why I will be leaving. I’m gonna leave for the Catholic Church for doctrinal reasons, not social reasons. But I 100% agree that the ELCA needs to be brought back to its senses as a whole, and that can only be done with conservatives like yourself.
Joey.
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hn160
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I was a member of the LCA which became a part of the ELCA in eastern Pennsylvania. My wife and I left for the LC-MS when we moved to California in 2005. We became a member of a very confessional congregation. The issues were women ordination, homosexual ordination, abortion, open Communion. The reason why, we stayed as long as we did, there wasn’t any LC-MS churches close to us and also our parents were still alive. I am sorry that we didn’t leave sooner.
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Izdaari
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I’ve visited ELCA churches and on the whole I like them. ELCA may be too liberal for me, but LCMS is definitely too conservative for me… and WELS is right out. If I were to be a Lutheran, it probably would be ELCA.
Mat the Spirit strengthen you, and those like you, in your fight for orthodox Lutheranism in our sister synod. My brother and sister have chosen this same route, while my mother in her 80’s has resigned her membership. The efects of the Church-wide Assembly are far-reaching.
One thing they can do, later down the road, is during a pastoral call process, present you a list of potential pastors who are, shall we say, not in keeping with historic norms. I know my brother has expressed concerns about this.
Jon
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Eutychus123
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Jon,
Do the ECLA churches contribute financially to the larger organization?
Do the ECLA churches contribute financially to the larger organization?
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Oldtimer_7
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Swiss Guy, I hate to see you go, but at least you are leaving for the right reasons. Only about 10% of those who join a church do so for theological reasons. I wish you luck in your spiritual growth.
Jon, thank you for your kind words. The vetting of pastoral candidates is done at the state synod level. The ELCA has no direct (name removed by moderator)ut, though it does maintain the seminaries.
Eutychus, local churches contribute to the state synod, and it sends money to support the ELCA. Some churches have reduced or cut their contributions entirely and others have qualified their giving to go to only state activities. On the local level, we allow people to direct their giving and some in my congregation have stated that money is only to be used locally.
Sadly, as other churches have found out, all this has been a major distraction from our missions. We have become far too inward looking and defensive. In visiting other churches, I find a great sense of weariness as a result of the debate. I do not see any positives coming out of this whole controversy. The only hope I see for the ELCA is to get about doing God’s work on earth, not trying to appease the latest fair-haired children.
Pray for us, brothers and sisters.
Jon, thank you for your kind words. The vetting of pastoral candidates is done at the state synod level. The ELCA has no direct (name removed by moderator)ut, though it does maintain the seminaries.
Eutychus, local churches contribute to the state synod, and it sends money to support the ELCA. Some churches have reduced or cut their contributions entirely and others have qualified their giving to go to only state activities. On the local level, we allow people to direct their giving and some in my congregation have stated that money is only to be used locally.
Sadly, as other churches have found out, all this has been a major distraction from our missions. We have become far too inward looking and defensive. In visiting other churches, I find a great sense of weariness as a result of the debate. I do not see any positives coming out of this whole controversy. The only hope I see for the ELCA is to get about doing God’s work on earth, not trying to appease the latest fair-haired children.
Pray for us, brothers and sisters.
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hn160
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From what I seen in LC-MS, the local congregation can bypass the District President and come up with their own list of pastors that they would like to call. These calls can go to active pastors or to seminary for a certain man that is going to graduate. Our pastor has two sons that are pastors, one was called by our church to be associate pastor and the other was called by the church that he served in his year as vicar. In the case of our associate pastor, we issued seven calls. Because of the high cost of real estate in California, we had to build a parsonage on part of the church property.
Yes, though individual members may designate their givings in such a way that it stays with the local parish. My brother does this.
Jon
I share your sentiments for our brother.
Yes, this is true, though my experience with the synod my father was part of was that its leadership tended to be in line with Chicago, which, because of his conservative views, both politically and theologically, influenced the availability of calls. Certainly that experience is anecdotal, and other synods may vary.
Jon
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Tomster
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Jon, Jon, Jon . . . . sigh!
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Tomster
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“Reinventing an understanding of the Lutheran confessions is quite another.”?
That goes right to my point, Jon, a point you really cannot avoid. Re-inventing “understandings” is pretty much one of the dogmas of Protestantism of which Lutheranism is a part. So long as private judgment is a bedrock dogma of Protestantism, a dogma which Dr. Luther fallibly proclaimed, your reinventing of “understandings” will continue with no posssible end in sight. History has proven the above to be true. I think you know this Jon.
Who within your particular brand of Protestantism can effectively say, once and for all, whether, how shall we say, your more theologically liberal Lutheran brethren, are correct or not?
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