Major archbishops and patriarchs

[Vico]

Although I’ve commented on autocephaly in the past, perhaps it’s worth another go here.

I’m not so sure that the Romanian situation (or, actually, any of the Eastern European Churches) is really an “Orthodox” trend. It seems to me to be more like a “Russian” trend. I really don’t have a problem with autocephaly per-se, but I do have a major problem with the Russian interpretation of same. The first autocephalous Church was that of Cyprus, which has never claimed a “patriarchal” title. Neither does the GOC nor, IIRC, does the Albanian OC.

The concept of autocephaly itself is rather like that of the Catholicosate, where the “daughter Church” is independent, but acknowledges at least the titular primacy of the Patriarch. Basically, that amounts to an acceptance that the Patriarch has the right to consecrate Holy Myroun.

The whole thing changes, however, where the self-proclaimed MP holds sway. There, we see the proliferation of the so-called “national patriarchates” (I suppose in imitation of MP), and frankly I find the whole idea to be rather silly.

In their pre-unification days, both were de facto (if not de jure) Catholicosates, so there is no tradition of a local “patriarchate” to muddy the waters. The Syro-Malankara have even revived the title Catholicos, despite the fact that (I think it was in the 1990s) Rome severed the ties between it and the SCC. What would make most sense to me is for the ties to be reestablished (or created, in the case of the Syro-Malabars) to the “Mother Church” thus eliminating the absurdity of the the Latin invention of “Major Archepisopates” and granting both Churches formal Catholicostate status.

OK guys, that’s enough of my unsolicited :twocents: for now.

For the Eastern Orthodox (I have not made one for Oriental and Assyrian):
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=601&pictureid=12328

 

[Nine_Two]

Dear brother Nine_Two,

Coming from an Oriental Orthodox background, where the reality of personal jurisdictions within territorial jurisdictions has existed for many centuries more than in the Catholic Church, I wouldn’t see this as a problem. The jurisdiction of the Maronite Patriarch, for example, would only be over Maronites; the jurisdiction of the Syriac Catholic Patriarch would only be over Syriac Catholics; etc.

But I fully understand that the EO know territorial jurisdiction as the only form of ecclesiastical administration, which is why it seems a quandary to you.

Blessings,
Marduk

Our quandary becomes your quandary, in Union.

 

[fijiq48]

Historically the Prelates of the Syrian Christians of Malabar were called Metropolitan of India. The titles used for them were “Metropolitan and Gate of All India ” or “Gate of India ”. This indicates the highest rank of authority in the Indian Church and the extend of its jurisdiction. He enjoyed an All India Jurisdiction, the Ruler of the entire Holy Church of Christians of India. The Vatican Codex 22, written in Cranganore in 1301 gives the titles as Metropolitan and the director of the entire Holy Church of Christian India.

With the coming of the Latin Church in India, the title was lost and all rights reserved were given to the mother church. In 1896 when the Syro Malabar Church was restored to its hierarchical status, instead of restoring its old jurisdiction over all of India the Latin Church granted us four Apostolic Vicariates, Trichur, Ernakulam, Changanassery, and Kottayam.

 

[Vico]

Historically the Prelates of the Syrian Christians of Malabar were called Metropolitan of India. The titles used for them were “Metropolitan and Gate of All India ” or “Gate of India ”. This indicates the highest rank of authority in the Indian Church and the extend of its jurisdiction. He enjoyed an All India Jurisdiction, the Ruler of the entire Holy Church of Christians of India. The Vatican Codex 22, written in Cranganore in 1301 gives the titles as Metropolitan and the director of the entire Holy Church of Christian India.

With the coming of the Latin Church in India, the title was lost and all rights reserved were given to the mother church. In 1896 when the Syro Malabar Church was restored to its hierarchical status, instead of restoring its old jurisdiction over all of India the Latin Church granted us four Apostolic Vicariates, Trichur, Ernakulam, Changanassery, and Kottayam.

The Church used to say that the Latin is to be preferred over all others. Finally this has changed officially.