Major Flaws of Islam?

[Angelos]

But you have not given any clear example about what is your problem with Quran. I had explained to you the meaning of Imran and the birth of Mary. Now I am telling you about why Mary was called the sister of Aaron.(ch 19 verse 28).

Mary was assigned to service of the temple. That was exactly the duty of Aaron and his offsrings, the Levites. It is for that reason that Quran is calling (or the Jewish men are calling) Mary the sister of Aaron.

Dear planten,

please consider my following arguments:

1) Mary is called “sister of Aaron” in Surah 19 ( Mecca period), but Mary’s dedication to the Temple in her childhood is recounted in Surah 3 (Medina period), which by no means associates Mary with Aaron.

**2)**Neither Surah 19 nor Surah 3 states that Mary was a descendant of Aaron or Levites. More, the Koran never associates people serving in the Temple with Aaron or the Levites. Accordingly, Zecchariah, who is said to be a priest serving in the Temple, is never called “brother of Aaron” in any chapter of the Koran.

3) Even if your assumption were true, Jewish people would have called Mary “daughter of Aaron” rather than “sister of Aaron” because Aaron would only be Mary’s father (ancestor) in a figurative sense, not brother.

4) Surah 3 clearly defines Imran as Mary’s biological father (the woman giving birth to Mary is called Imran’s wife). Mary’s identification as the sister of Aaron in chapter 19 is consistent with this misunderstanding. In Surah 19 Mary’s father is not named solely because Aaron’s name allows the reader to infer that Mary’s biological father is Imran. Thus, Aaron stands for his biological father Imran in that context.

 

[planten]

Use only the Quran and Mathematics to resolve this issue:

The Quran’s Inheritance fLaw.

Koran 4:11-12
*Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise. In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing. *

Let us suppose that a man dies and leaves behind three daughters, two parents and his wife. According to the verses stated above the three daughters together will receive 2/3 of the share, the parents will receive 1/3 of the share and the wife will receive 1/8 of the share.

Do the math once again: 2/3 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 9/8 = 1.125. The distribution of the property adds up to more than the available property! How can this distribution be possible? Once again Mohammed displays his inability to add. Well, if a person can’t add integers then it is unprobable that he would know how to add fractions.

Good work A_T. There may be misunderstanding. When it talks about two or more daughters, that means there is no one else to inherit. I will make it clear in next post.
Please be reasonable. A person who is discussing fractions must surely be knowing about all the numbers.

Another example: A man dies and leaves behind his mother, his wife and two sisters. According to what Mohammed has stated in Koran 4:11-12 and 4:176 the mother will receive 1/3 of the property, the wife will receive 1/4 of the property and the sisters will receive 2/3 of the property.

Let us add up the fractions again: 1/3 + 2/3 + 1/4 = 5/4 = 1.25 and once again it adds up to more than the available property.

That is another misunderstanding. Here we have the sisters and not daughters. Please note. Again, I will make it fully clear in next post when I have some time free. Thanks for asking.

 

[swariffin]

You have not cited any case of inheritance. So that is the end of your accusation. The christians were worshipping mary in the very early centuries until Roman pagans took over chritianity. Then they followed saul and downplayed Mary.

Another self made accusation???

 

[swariffin]

Use only the Quran and Mathematics to resolve this issue:

The Quran’s Inheritance fLaw.

Koran 4:11-12
*Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise. In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing. *

Let us suppose that a man dies and leaves behind three daughters, two parents and his wife. According to the verses stated above the three daughters together will receive 2/3 of the share, the parents will receive 1/3 of the share and the wife will receive 1/8 of the share.

Do the math once again: 2/3 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 9/8 = 1.125. The distribution of the property adds up to more than the available property! How can this distribution be possible? Once again Mohammed displays his inability to add. Well, if a person can’t add integers then it is unprobable that he would know how to add fractions.

Another example: A man dies and leaves behind his mother, his wife and two sisters. According to what Mohammed has stated in Koran 4:11-12 and 4:176 the mother will receive 1/3 of the property, the wife will receive 1/4 of the property and the sisters will receive 2/3 of the property.

Let us add up the fractions again: 1/3 + 2/3 + 1/4 = 5/4 = 1.25 and once again it adds up to more than the available property.

Dear Agnos,

I did not pay attention on this. And this mathematical flaw came from the Angel of Gabriel who dictated Quran to Muhammad??? You lead me to this question which I would like to ask our fellow Muslims. Who was wrong here: (a) Muhammand was wrongly remembered what was told by the angel of Gabriel, or (b) The angel of Gabriel remembered the wrong things when he received the information from God? or (c) Perhaps it was Uthsman who was misinformed about the original Quran and made his own version.

 

[planten]

I think Amy is one of the zealous new converts; after some years it will fade, and the cloth will come off the eyes as it does to many… …

**Please be fair and square. Christ had risen from his slumber in the tomb. Your signature carries meaning beyond reason. We Muslims admit that Jesus had risen. But what you are trying to conclude from the word “Risen”. That would be too much and illogical.

Jesus had fallen unconscious and was not buried. He was laid in a spacious tomb and looked after. After some time he had risen. That is all perfect speech. His friends looked after him very well.**

 

[planten]

mr planten think that i have died.i left my property as 200000$.i left my 3 daughterr,my parents,and my wife.now pls divide my property according to inheritance law of islam.but be carefull i want the calculation according to quran.you have to give me reference of sura&verses also.do it sir

Yes, Thanks. Please wait out. As I will reply to Agnos, it will perhaps the same case as you have cited here.

 

[planten]

mr agnos thanks alot to help me.i also read those verses and tried to explain but mr.planten denied it.so mr planten pls divide my estimate that i sent in past message.but again be carefull you can’t edit those verses

** Why should I or any one else edit any verse of the Quran?? That is never done. That is the advantage of having the real words of God with us. We do not have to alter anything. When the original is intact, at the most some one can agree or disagree to the meaning or context.

Do not worry. I will not alter anything. Thanks.**

 

[swariffin]

**Please be fair and square. Christ had risen from his slumber in the tomb. Your signature carries meaning beyond reason. We Muslims admit that Jesus had risen. But what you are trying to conclude from the word “Risen”. That would be too much and illogical.

Jesus had fallen unconscious and was not buried. He was laid in a spacious tomb and looked after. After some time he had risen. That is all perfect speech. His friends looked after him very well.**

Dear Planten,

Perhaps you can explain me why the high priest persuade the Romans to guard the burial tomb (which the Romans agreed), and where were those guards at the Sunday morning, the day of the Resurrection? Any information that they are being scared to see Jesus coming out of the tomb like a zombie with his crucifiction scars, with a hole in Jesus’ side so a hand can be put inside? And you believe that anybody with that kind of wound can survive for a few days inside a tomb without any modern medication, and unattended by anybody? Very eye awakening analysis indeed.

 

[Angelos]

**Please be fair and square. Christ had risen from his slumber in the tomb. Your signature carries meaning beyond reason. We Muslims admit that Jesus had risen. But what you are trying to conclude from the word “Risen”. That would be too much and illogical.

Jesus had fallen unconscious and was not buried. He was laid in a spacious tomb and looked after. After some time he had risen. That is all perfect speech. His friends looked after him very well.**

Your evidence please? When will you stop basing your arguments on your personal assumptions? Consider the following questions:

1) How come Jesus did not die on the cross when a Roman soldier pierced His side with a lance?
**2) **Who looked after Jesus in the tomb?
**3) **How was it possible for Jesus’ disciples to hide in the tomb when Roman soldiers sealed the stone and guarded the tomb?
**4)**Why did Jesus’ disciples resort to lies when they proclaimed to the whole world that “Jesus is RISEN”
**5) **Why did the angel in Jesus’ tomb lie to the group of women when he said “Jesus is RISEN”.
6) Why did the Koran not know that Jesus had been crucified? (Why did Allah make a mistake when he denied that Jesus was crucified?)
7) How could Jesus recover from His fatal wounds in 3 days and regain His strength to walk to Galilee, where He appeared to His disciples?

 

[morning_star777]

you are welcome mr planten.sure we will wait for your next reply.specially me and mr.agnos be care ful mr planten will post his next reply soon i hope.so we should be careful.and we shouldn’t forgot wat we wrote in our previous reply.best of luck.

 

[AgnosTheist]

That is another misunderstanding. Here we have the sisters and not daughters.

I agree and I’m sorry. Just deal with the other one

---

*Assuming there are no Debts: *

His three daughters:** 2/3 **
“if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance”

His** Parents**: **1/3 **
“For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children”

His Wife: **1/8 **
“if ye leave a child, they get an eighth”

Total = 1.125.

 

[planten]

I agree and I’m sorry. Just deal with the other one

---

*Assuming there are no Debts: *

His three daughters:** 2/3 **
“if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance”

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The share of the daughters will be 2/3 only if there is no other inheritor i.e. son or father or mother…You have noted it in your words too. Please see below, the verses concerning inheritance:

 

[planten]

I agree and I’m sorry. Just deal with the other one

---

*Assuming there are no Debts: *

His three daughters:** 2/3 **
“if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance”

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The share of the daughters will be 2/3 only if there is no other inheritor i.e. son or father or mother…You have noted it in your words too. Please see below, the verses concerning inheritance:

 

[planten]

For morning star, If you leave property worth 240,000 ( I have change this figure for convenience) and you leave three dauthers and a wife and a mother and a father then the the property will be disributed as follows:

Wife=1/8= 240,0001/8= 30,000 Dollars$
mother =1/6= 40,000 $
father= 1/6 = 40,000 $, i.e. is a total of 110,000$.
three daughters will get the remainder i.e. 240,00013/24
= 130,000 $ and will divide it between them as 130,000/3 $ each daughter= 43333.3 $ each daughter.

That is as near as i could do it.

 

[planten]

The other case of A_T, leaving one mother and one wife and two sisters:

Wife will get 1/4 because there are no children.
Mother will get 1/6 because there are no children.
That makes a total of 10/24=5/12.

The remainder, 7/12, will be distributed amongst two sisters. i.e. each sister will get 7/24 share.

So if the property is 240,000$ then wife will get 60,000$. i.e 1/4.
The mother will get 40,000 $, i.e. 1/6.
Each sister will get 70,000 $ (half of 140,000 $)

Total amount = 60,000+40,000+70,000+70,000=240,000$
I hope that is correct.
And good bye, Sir.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Sorry, I have to correct you here. The share of the daughters will be 2/3 only if there is no other inheritor i.e. son or father or mother…You have noted it in your words too. Please see below, the verses concerning inheritance:

[4:10] Surely, they who devour the property of orphans unjustly, only swallow fire into their bellies, and they shall burn in a blazing fire.
[4:11] Allah commands you concerning your children; a male shall have as much as the share of two females; but if their be females only, numbering more than two, then they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased leave; and if there be one, she shall have half.
where in the koran does it say “if there is no other inheritor”?

the word “only” there was in reference to the absence of sons
planten;3619121:

three daughters will get the remainder i.e.

where in the koran does it say that? where is the word “remainder” in the koran?

remember, you are not allowed to invent your own rules. you must use the koran.

 

[morning_star777]

mr planten.you said in the ist case that daughters will get 13/24.but i read that it will be 2/3.so reference pls.which sura and which verses

 

[morning_star777]

mr planten,wat mr agnos asked i am also asking the same.and i heard that wat rule u use that had been edited by ALI.(my source is not faithfull cuz i heard it from an atheist).but its clear that sura 4:11,12,176 clearly said that daughters(2nd case sisters)will get 2/3 that means 16/24 not 13/24.so you have to give reference of quran sir

 

[planten]

where in the koran does it say “if there is no other inheritor”?

the word “only” there was in reference to the absence of sons

where in the koran does it say that? where is the word “remainder” in the koran?

remember, you are not allowed to invent your own rules. you must use the koran.

** [4:11] Allah commands you concerning your children; a male shall have as much as the share of two females; but if their be females only,** numbering more than two, then they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased leave; and if there be one, she shall have half.
**It is clear in this verse that a male child will inherit double the share of a female one. But if there are females only, numbering two or more than two, they will inheit 2/3. But if there is only one daughter ( That means only one daughter as aninheritor), she will get half of all the property.

This is very clear in the above verse. Quran is a concise and uses only the necessary words. Please read the words: “but if their be females only”, that is clear enough that there are female inheritors only. It is all understood**.

 

[planten]

mr planten.you said in the ist case that daughters will get 13/24.but i read that it will be 2/3.so reference pls.which sura and which verses

**You are right. The share of the 3 daughters would be 2/3 if there was no other inheritor. But because there is a wife and mother etc also present as inheritors, then they will get their share and the share of the 3 ladies will not be 2/3.

There is no need of any verse for that. It is written in the verse 4:11 that if there are ladies only as inheritors… then the rule for more than two daughters will apply.

Please also remember that share of son or daughter is not mentioned any where, except that male children inherit double than the female children. But the share of mother and father and wife and husband has been mentioned in the Quran. So they get whatever is prescribed for them. Then whatever remains is distributed to the children.

But if there are no parents or wife or husband then the property goes to the children as per single and double share. If there are children then the share of the husband or wife or parents is reduced as mentioned in the other nearby verses.
**