major mormon mistake

[Jack_726]

I lived an worked among Mormons for many years. Mostly very nice people, always ready to lend a hand. Here are their basic teachings as told to me… I will welcome any factual refutation point-by-point, not just a broad general disavowment:

1. The LDS church is the true church of Jesus Christ.
2. God lives on the planet Kolob and has several wives.
3. God flew down from Kolob and had human sex with Mary and conceived Jesus.
4. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
5. Jesus had three wives: Mary Magdalene, and Mary and Martha, sisters of Lazarus.
6. Jesus had several children by his three wives.
7. Jesus is not God, therefore “The Divine Trinity” is a false teaching.
8. The Catholic Church is “The Great Apostasy”.
9. The Cross is a “satanic symbol” representing The Great Apostasy.
10. All Protestant Churches are spin-offs of The Great Apostasy.
11. The Bible is a collection of “false teachings” written by The Great Apostasy.
12. The “Book of Mormon” is the true scripture of Jesus Christ.
13. The President of the LDS church receives church law drectly from God on Kolob.
14. LDS church law is superior to all man-made laws, includig the U.S. Constitution.
15. When the earth ends, Mormons will travel by space ships to the planet Kolob.
16. On Kolob, Mormons will receive a special blood transfusion, granting eternal life.
17. Non-Mormons are the “Sons of Perdition” and will be cast into eternal darkness.

 

[Marie5890]

I lived an worked among Mormons for many years. Mostly very nice people, always ready to lend a hand. Here are their basic teachings as told to me… I will welcome any factual refutation point-by-point, not just a broad general disavowment:

1. The LDS church is the true church of Jesus Christ.
2. God lives on the planet Kolob and has several wives.
3. God flew down from Kolob and had human sex with Mary and conceived Jesus.
4. Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
5. Jesus had three wives: Mary Magdalene, and Mary and Martha, sisters of Lazarus.
6. Jesus had several children by his three wives.
7. Jesus is not God, therefore “The Divine Trinity” is a false teaching.
8. The Catholic Church is “The Great Apostasy”.
9. The Cross is a “satanic symbol” representing The Great Apostasy.
10. All Protestant Churches are spin-offs of The Great Apostasy.
11. The Bible is a collection of “false teachings” written by The Great Apostasy.
12. The “Book of Mormon” is the true scripture of Jesus Christ.
13. The President of the LDS church receives church law drectly from God on Kolob.
14. LDS church law is superior to all man-made laws, includig the U.S. Constitution.
15. When the earth ends, Mormons will travel by space ships to the planet Kolob.
16. On Kolob, Mormons will receive a special blood transfusion, granting eternal life.
17. Non-Mormons are the “Sons of Perdition” and will be cast into eternal darkness.

The only ones, as a former Mormon, that I would say is actual doctrine is #1, 4,10…

The other stuff…Wow, whatever Mormons you knew, were not in touch with their own doctrines…Though some of those have seeds from the 19th century LDS leaders…SOme really really twisted…Some down out wrong…OYYYYY

 

[Jack_726]

The only ones, as a former Mormon, that I would say is actual doctrine is #1, 4,10…

The other stuff…Wow, whatever Mormons you knew, were not in touch with their own doctrines…Though some of those have seeds from the 19th century LDS leaders…SOme really really twisted…Some down out wrong…OYYYYY

My information came from Bishops and Stake Presidents as recemt as twp years agp, very much “in touch” with their church promulgations, Why do you “ex-Mormons” deny these established doctrines? I have no problem with what Mormons choose to believe if it makes them happy and doesn’t infringe on my happiness. That goes fpr Scientologists or any other cult as well.

 

[lax16]

Thank you for this direct LDS source!

As we say here in Utah…You bet!

 

[lax16]

I lived an worked among Mormons for many years. Mostly very nice people, always ready to lend a hand. Here are their basic teachings as told to me… I will welcome any factual refutation point-by-point, not just a broad general disavowment:

1. God lives on the planet Kolob

Hi Jack - from LDS FAQs:

Actually, according to “Mormon theology,” God does not live on Kolob. Kolob means “the first creation” and is the name of the star closest to the “residence of God.” It is not God’s actual residence.

We learn of Kolob from Abraham’s account found in The Pearl of Great Price, one of the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
AND I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;
And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.[1]
Kolob governs all the planets which belong to the same order as the earth and is after the reckoning of the Lord’s times, seasons and revolutions thereof. One revolution of Kolob is a day unto the Lord and one day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years on earth.

 

[TexanKnight]

Sometimes referring to someone else’s research is the best way to respond.

Not really. It is a way of saying that you have no idea how to defend, so you rely on sources that are usually not reliable.

There’s no way I’m going to spend time investigating the Moroni/Comoros/Captain Kidd baloney.

While I agree it is baloney, there is no indication that the allegation is untrue. Joseph taught and believed in a lot of very odd things. His stories are wildly inconsistent.

 

[Marie5890]

My information came from Bishops and Stake Presidents as recemt as twp years agp, very much “in touch” with their church promulgations, Why do you “ex-Mormons” deny these established doctrines? I have no problem with what Mormons choose to believe if it makes them happy and doesn’t infringe on my happiness. That goes fpr Scientologists or any other cult as well.

Lax pointed out in LDS scripture why the whole Kolob contention is wrong.

So the bishops and stake presidents were claiming that Kolob is where God lives, then they are out of touch with LDS scripture

So if they are wrong on that simple point, they were wrong in the other things they told you.

Kinda surprising for bishops and stake presidents to get that easy one wrong.

 

[Jack_726]

lax16, thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I am just repeating what I was told by my good friend and business partner (RIP) who was a Stake President. I guess it’s easier to say that God lives on Kolob than try to explain that Kolob is part of a star system. However, what he told me was agreed to by other of my Mormon friends, including a couple of Bishops.

In their eager efforts to convert me to Mormonism . . . for whatever reason . . . they reminded me that the Catholic Church is “the great whore of Babylon” and the Pope is the “Anti-Christ”, although they weren’t clear on which Pope. This, of course,is “old hat” borrowed from some hard-shell Protestant belief systems. But, as I have said, I am very glad for happy Mormons . . . or happy Scientologists . . . or happy Bahaists . . . etc…

Let me say furher, as a convert to Catholocism of many years ago . . . I am 86 . . . I have met many Catholics . . . including some clergy . . . with equally phantasmagoric doctrinal concepts as my Mormon friends.

 

[lax16]

I lived an worked among Mormons for many years. Mostly very nice people, always ready to lend a hand. Here are their basic teachings as told to me… I will welcome any factual refutation point-by-point, not just a broad general disavowment:

1. Jesus had three wives: Mary Magdalene, and Mary and Martha, sisters of Lazarus.
2. Jesus had several children by his three wives.

There were early LDS leaders who taught this but the Mormon church states they have no official teaching on the matter.

I think it is safe to say some Mormons think Jesus was married to several wives, perhaps some do not, and it is not mandatory to believe either way.

 

[lax16]

lax16, thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I am just repeating what I was told by my good friend and business partner (RIP) who was a Stake President. I guess it’s easier to say that God lives on Kolob than try to explain that Kolob is part of a star system. However, what he told me was agreed to by other of my Mormon friends, including a couple of Bishops.

In their eager efforts to convert me to Mormonism . . . for whatever reason . . . they reminded me that the Catholic Church is “the great whore of Babylon” and the Pope is the “Anti-Christ”, although they weren’t clear on which Pope. This, of course,is “old hat” borrowed from some hard-shell Protestant belief systems. But, as I have said, I am very glad for happy Mormons . . . or happy Scientologists . . . or happy Bahaists . . . etc…

Let me say furher, as a convert to Catholocism of many years ago . . . I am 86 . . . I have met many Catholics . . . including some clergy . . . with equally phantasmagoric doctrinal concepts as my Mormon friends.

Jack - You are welcome!

I spend quite a bit of my time reading up on LDS teachings (new and old) and am happy to pass on what I have learned.

I have heard quite a few doozies myself from Mormon friends trying to convert me, so I understand that there can be a bit of misunderstanding beneath all of that zeal!

I can assure you they have moved to a more “friendly” and respectful dialogue towards Catholics in the last 20+ years I have been around them…they are trying to be viewed as more mainstream and accepted as Christians. However, as we all know, their definition and view of the Trinity is what separates us from having anything in common, theologically speaking.

You’re 86? Wow - I’m impressed that you are on here posting your ideas! Please stick around and continue to add to the conversation!!

 

[TexanKnight]

There were early LDS leaders who taught this but the Mormon church states they have no official teaching on the matter.

I think it is safe to say some Mormons think Jesus was married to several wives, perhaps some do not, and it is not mandatory to believe either way.

One of the frustrating things about the LDS is the habit of teaching things without ever claiming they are doctrine so when they are questioned, they can claim it was never doctrine. I, too, was taught Jesus was married as indictated. I also was taught we have a Heavenly Mother who is Married to God, the heavenly Father…but they will now claim that THAT teaching is not doctrine.

the list of such things is long

 

[lax16]

One of the frustrating things about the LDS is the habit of teaching things without ever claiming they are doctrine so when they are questioned, they can claim it was never doctrine. I, too, was taught Jesus was married as indictated. I also was taught we have a Heavenly Mother who is Married to God, the heavenly Father…but they will now claim that THAT teaching is not doctrine.

the list of such things is long

Yes, the early teachings on Jesus being married were very clear.

But, as they said, don’t preach it - too controversial to outsiders I guess.

When you were taught these things did they tell you it was not doctrine??

 

[AlienAngel]

My wife converted to Mormonism from jehovahs witness about seven years ago. We have come to a mutual understanding that our beliefs do not line up with each other, but we respect each other. I’m Catholic, and here is my mistake. :

Several months ago, a very nice person from her church asked me if I would be interested in working with their boy scout troop. Since I thought it would be a neutral thing I agreed to help out.
Well, I’ve been doing it now for three months, and the undercurrent of trying to get me involved in their church is getting quite discouraging.
My main focus was perhaps doing something outside of the religion that we both could be together with, but no.
The religion plays a HUGE part in their scouting program, and I feel if I just walk away my wife will develop that religious haughty attitude that the mormons are famous for. ( Believe me it really gets thick at times).
How can I walk away, and preserve the respect, and/or mutual understanding that has developed during the past few months between my wife and the mormon people?
I’m not trying to be a jerk about this, just want to end it on a decent note.

**This might work for you brother. Get yourself super well versed on apologetics like “no prophecy after Jesus Christ”, The Eucharist, & schedule a meeting with “the mormon bishops” to discuss your “concerns”. with your wife present of course. Pray that she will understand logically why you can not continue to support a false prophet Joseph Smith. Also, the “bishops” will not be able to sound reasonable when faced with Apologetics.
shop.catholic.com/books-1/apologetics/beginning-apologetics-volume-2-how-to-answer-jehovah-s-witnesses-and-mormons.html **

 

[Marie5890]

In their eager efforts to convert me to Mormonism . . . for whatever reason . . . they reminded me that the Catholic Church is “the great whore of Babylon” and the Pope is the “Anti-Christ”, although they weren’t clear on which Pope.

Jack, it is true that in the first edition of apostle Bruce R McConkie’s book “Mormon Doctrine” that he claimed that the Catholic church was the whore of Babylon. Not sure if he made any comment about a/the Pope being the anti-Christ.

That was a widely held belief, again coming out of 19th century Protestantism, that that many held, and he articulated that in his book.

Because he was an apostle in the LDS church, and apostles are sustained as prophet seers and revelatiors, his words held great weight.

He was forced to remove such claims in subsequent editions.

That is where the LDS church gets the reputation of having a theology that is hard to pin down/nail jello to a wall.

What the LDS church believed and held as doctrines in the 19th century DOES different significantly as to what it believes, or says it believes, today…

What you have been told has it’s foundation in the 19th century LDS church, not the late 20th/early 21st century church…And yes, they are different.

 

[TexanKnight]

Yes, the early teachings on Jesus being married were very clear.

But, as they said, don’t preach it - too controversial to outsiders I guess.

When you were taught these things did they tell you it was not doctrine??

nope…I believed it was doctrine. Just lime Holy Mother and other teachings NOW held to NOT be doctrine

 

[lax16]

nope…I believed it was doctrine. Just lime Holy Mother and other teachings NOW held to NOT be doctrine

:hypno:

I wonder if they will ever change some of the basics, such as… the Book of Mormon being holy scripture comparable to the Bible - changed to - the BoM is an inspirational fictional story.
There is so much evidence to prove that JS wrote the BoM with the help of friends and by plagiarizing other works that I wonder if eventually they will have to abandon the belief that he was divinely inspired?

 

[Jack_726]

lax16. Yes, I was under the impression that these teachings were “doctrinal” by word-of-mouth, coming from high ranking members of the church. Let me say, however, that there is a phrase they use, “spoken but not written”.

Marie5890. The teachings I have listed are recent, coming from church “authorities” within the past couple of years. I am certain there have been changes in church doctrine or ritual since the days of Brigham Young, just as there have been dramatic changes in Catholic canon and ritual over the past 17 centuries. There was a time in the Catholic Church when women were ordained ministers of the Catholic faith. Legend has it that Saint Brigit of Kildare was a Bishop who established many monasteries and convents. There are not many female Bishops around today . . . either Catholic or Mormon.

Whatever the case, I have enjoyed the company of many Mormon friends, even when discussing religion.

 

[SteveVH]

Also, the “bishops” will not be able to sound reasonable when faced with Apologetics.

You’re not kidding. When I asked a Mormon bishop to please give me any historical evidence for the “Great Apostasy” he said he didn’t need to; he had the testimony of Joseph Smith. That was it. The two missionaries who were with him just stared at the table not saying a word. Frankly, I was blown away. We have to remember Mormon bishops are not in the same realm whatsoever as a Catholic bishop with years of theological training and study. This poor guy didn’t know the first thing about defending his faith.

 

[LongJourney]

An important question:

1. Those teachings which are supported in the D & C can be defined as doctrines without contest?
2. The teachings which are supported by the PoGP are not necessarily doctrines, even though that book is considered to be scripture?
3. The teachings in the JoD can be cherry-picked at will?
4. That the teachings in the BoM can also be cherry-picked at will is a given.

If those statements are all true, I have a minimal revision to do on my work.

 

[kimg901]

Most of what we read (and been taught) about mormonism is either anti-mormon or “not doctrine” if it comes from anyone not lds. Its only a teaching is what you will hear from mormons but as a bunch of us here posted in another thread, Doctrine is a teaching. So for the OP, just remember that a teaching is actually doctrine. Good Luck.