Major scandal; Now proven that the entire global warming threat is based on fabricated data

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Fools, you are all fools…there was no hacker break in, there was no “leaked information” and this had nothing to do with disproving human impact on climate change. People CAN screw up a planet it’s as simple as that. I will not get in to a long drawn out argument on this and a citation war, I just had to let it be known how many of my fellow Catholics are fools to a much bigger conspiracy than they care to hear about, and I got news for you, although GOOD things like environmental action have been polluted by BAD people and entities it does not diminish it. It’s like scandal in the Church, the bad of a good, does NOT diminish the good of a good. AND with that I bid you good day, fools.
 
Fools, you are all fools…there was no hacker break in, there was no “leaked information” and this had nothing to do with disproving human impact on climate change. People CAN screw up a planet it’s as simple as that. I will not get in to a long drawn out argument on this and a citation war, I just had to let it be known how many of my fellow Catholics are fools to a much bigger conspiracy than they care to hear about, and I got news for you, although** GOOD things like environmental action have been polluted by BAD people and entities it does not diminish it.** It’s like scandal in the Church, the bad of a good, does NOT diminish the good of a good. AND with that I bid you good day, fools.
emphasis mine.

Who is saying different?
Calling someone a fool, that disagrees with scaremongering…I don’t believe is Catholic-like. In any way shape or form.

You must be under the disillusion…that those of us who disagree with what has been fed…what is attempting to be fed us…aren’t environmental stewards. The audacity of those who hold that thinking – harms much more.

Thank you kindly for " I got news for you" but YOUR news isn’t new news.
 
Fools, you are all fools…there was no hacker break in, there was no “leaked information” and this had nothing to do with disproving human impact on climate change. People CAN screw up a planet it’s as simple as that. I will not get in to a long drawn out argument on this and a citation war, I just had to let it be known how many of my fellow Catholics are fools to a much bigger conspiracy than they care to hear about, and I got news for you, although GOOD things like environmental action have been polluted by BAD people and entities it does not diminish it. It’s like scandal in the Church, the bad of a good, does NOT diminish the good of a good. AND with that I bid you good day, fools.
If you can do that the Warf does it on Star Trek the next generation I will be really impressed. Otherwise, I think Our Lord warned us about calling each other ‘fool’.
Although, sometimes i do feel foolish:blush:
 
It’s one thing for the average person to read these leaked emails and data and assess whether they demand action. It’s another for actual scientists to read them and determine something is not right, either with the data or the way things were handled.

Mike Hulme is the “the 10th most cited author in the world in the field of climate change, between 1999 and 2009”
He suggests climate science has become too politicized
dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/27/a-climate-scientist-on-climate-skeptics/
After spending considerable time reading the hacked emails and other posts in the blogosphere, I wrote an essay that calls for greater transparency in climate data and other methods used in climate research.
Also Ed Zorita, a contributing author in the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC
coast.gkss.de/staff/zorita/ (click link at top)
Why I think that Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf should be barred from the IPCC process
Short answer: because the scientific assessments in which they may take part are not credible anymore.
Demetris Koutsouyannis, a hydrologist who has written articles on the IPCC position on freshwater and others
pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/beware-saviors-by-demetris-koutsoyiannis/
I must say that what I’ve been reading in the recently hacked and released confidential files from the CRU (aka “Climategate” documents) is not a surprise to me. Rather, and sadly, it verifies what I had suspected about some in the climate establishment.
 
Why is it so important as to whether or not the phenomena is man made or not? Could it be because you would have to change a few habits if it is? If it is your drunk uncle or your dog pooping in the yard, does it matter? It still needs to be cleaned up. All of this is a distraction from the real issue at hand. An issue which basically places the blame squarely on humanities shoulders but nobody wants to bear the burden because it hurts their insignificant little feelings. It goes against their convenient lazy wasteful self absorbed lifestyle. It would require to much EFFORT to admit that maybe, just maybe, humans are actually making our habitat filthy. After all, God made us in his image and therefor we must exploit the resources He gave us as fast as we can… and if we actually take the initiative to clean up our filth and start behaving civil towards one another and the other creatures around us, well, that somehow shows a lack of faith in His providence.
It does matter whether a condition is or is not manmade. If something is manmade, then perhaps man can change it if it needs to be changed. If it is not manmade, then one must ask whether there is anything man can, or even should, do about it.

Nobody advocates “filth” accumulating in the environment. This country has done much to avoid that and to clean up prior pollution of all kinds. The results are obvious to anyone who has lived long enough. Treatment of the environment is dramatically better now than it was, say, when I was a child. A very large portion of it is simply due to the fact that individuals now treat the environment differently, whatever motivations one ascribes to their doing so.

But that phenomenon really doesn’t tell us anything about the proper course, if any at all, appropriate for what some perceive as MMGW. For one thing, it isn’t obvious, as the NASA site readily admits. Toxic “chat” piles leaching toxic chemicals into the environment are obvious. Buried batteries are obvious. Erosion from farming lands that shouldn’t be farmed is obvious. Unrecovered strip mines are obvious. As regards the harmfulness and causes of such things, there is no disagreement. MMGW is not like that. There is nothing obvious about it, particularly when, as now, the climate is cooling. There is no agreement, let alone unanimity on the causes of global warming, or even whether we’re in a warming period or a cooling period. People can, and do, go back in history and make a case for either one. And, having made their cases for whichever it is, posit causes which they can make seem plausible, but cannot prove.

It is wrong to say that those who are skeptical about MMGW are that way because of “greed” or “laziness” or “self absorption” or anything of the kind. At minimum, people have a right to be skeptical about “causes de jour”, given past experiences of them. Rachel Carson’s book led to the worldwide banning of DDT. It did not lead to the banning of all insecticides, but to the proliferation of them. And now, decades later, there is a significant body of opinion that the whole DDT scare was misplaced and that, further, millions have died unnecessarily of malaria, sleeping sickness, etc all because of something that may have been nothing more than a popularized view.

We have, as we know, been warned of global cooling in the past. New ice age and all that, due to aerosol pollutants. We have been warned by Paul Ehrlich and others that overpopulation was going to cause mass starvation in a foreseeable time frame (now long past) Instead, we’re looking down the barrel of a potential “population implosion”, the consequences of which may be very severe indeed. According to past predictions, we should have long since run totally out of petroleum. We were promised decades ago, and not just by its leaders, that the Soviet Union would soon “surpass” the West in productivity and living standards. And, of course, we were told by Jimmy Carter that we were simply going to have to accept the fact that we were just going to have to learn to live with the “fact” that the only way we could henceforth keep warm in our own homes was to wear wooly sweaters.

We have been told by “scientific experts” that children should be bottle-fed from the first available moment and that they shouldn’t; that babies should be kept more or less immobile and that they shouldn’t; that they should be rigorously potty-trained at “age X” and that they shouldn’t. And, of course, “scientific experts” once told us that smoking prevented lung cancer.

It cannot be denied that the current MMGW popularization has financial ramifications for virtually everyone. For some, the movement means wealth. For some, it means a higher cost of living; perhaps disasterously higher. Without question, for this government, it means more tax revenue. When those who stand to gain are massively outnumbered by those who stand to lose, the potential losers may reasonably be expected to question the whole proposition, particularly when their incipient impoverishment is not based on anything obvious or even anyting upon which all experts agree. That is particularly so when the conclusions fly in the face of experience. It’s hard to accept the idea that the planet is warming disasterously when one experiences repeated colder years. It’s hard to accept that warming, if it’s real, is manmade when greater warming cycles have occurred when they could not possibly have been manmade.

And so now we’re seeing information come out that many interpret as evidencing an intent to defraud on the part of the experts who are at the forefront of the “scientific” justification for the MMGW panic and, therefore, of all the hardships about to be visited on the population as a consequence of it. It is perfectly reasonable for people to be skeptical about such things.
 
Then you have the useful idiots like Glenn beck and Sarah Palin who pander to the Big Business end of the deal and they want to keep the status quo for the sake of the money.
You need to read more; your accusations may be emotionally satisfying but they are as base as they are baseless. When Palin was governor of Alaska she broke up the power of the big three oil companies in that state, taking Exxon to court to force them to either use their oil leases by drilling or lose them. After 25 years of inaction Exxon started drilling.
Then all the little parrots start squacking the same thing and don’t even know what they are squacking about, they just squack and posture and spout off polemic euphemisms that pretty soon there is so much flak in the air that nobody can see the forest for the trees.
Yes, evidently all the evil people are on our side and the noble ones are all on yours. You would be better off if the science was on your side as well but that appears not to be the case.

Ender
 
Ignore the emails for a moment.

I think the thing everyone overlooks is that all the accompanying leaked data and programs should not have excited bloggers so much in the first place.

But why did they excite bloggers?

If these pro-AGW scientists were more transparent, then the data and the programs they send that data through should have already been available for anyone to see, for any other scientists to replicate. The fact that these things are being kept hidden when there is no reason they should not have been is what made the leak newsworthy, and what is resulting in conspiracy theories.

We see in the programs biases being applied to the data. Biases which were not explained in any papers, were not explained why they were the specific numbers that they were. Why was data after 1960 treated differently? Why was a certain bias only applied to data between 1900-2000?

Why weren’t these questions answered a long time ago?

They are constantly putting down the “skeptics,” yet won’t release data that skeptics want to analyze SO THEY WON’T HAVE ANY REASONS TO BE SKEPTICAL ANYMORE.

Does that make any sense?

The scientific method is summarized thus:
  1. Define the question
  2. Gather information and resources (observe)
  3. Form hypothesis
  4. Perform experiment and collect data
  5. Analyze data
  6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
  7. Publish results
    ** 8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)**
If there is no reason to believe these scientists are being deceptive, then why wasn’t the leaked data already available? Why would they rather delete something instead of release it in a FOI request? If they are so certain their global warming theories are correct, then why wasn’t it released so that other scientists could retest and verify their position? If they’re correct, wouldn’t that boost their careers?

Can anyone answer that?
 
Ridgerunner; Ender

Of course you know that I do disagree with the angle you guys take it from. Never the less I believe it one of you who said some thing in another thread a while back that said something like,…“we are both approaching the same waterfall but just from opposite banks of the river”

Both of you have bested me in the past, to this I openly admit. However, I do believe that the evidence is in favor of AGW/MMCC.

I also believe that it doesn’t matter because the current trend is towards a ‘green’ ‘sustainable’ conservationist future. It is what it is. I am not ashamed to be riding a wave that has barely begun to crest.

I am sorry if this sounds smug, but the ‘conservative’ resistance to what is happening only serves to expedite the issue. By this, i mean that people see through it for what it is. Posturing and staunch resistance to change. Blatant denial. That is all. As Ridgerunner said, Tobacco and other industries have gone to great lengths to keep their products popular in spite of the scientific evidence. Just like meat and dairy are also doing today. And just like Big Oil and coal is doing.

But, it will not last.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.😉

ps. ever try to type with a cockatiel on your wrist? I guess he wants something…
 
By this, i mean that people see through it for what it is. Posturing and staunch resistance to change. Blatant denial. That is all.
Arrogance asside.
Prove the change is for the better, and people will change.

Everyone in favor of man made global warming keeps claiming that the resistance to the change is simply posturing, but they fail at a very basic level to even listen to the other side.
People want proof. Proof is not being provided.

You want to talk about posturing and staunch resistance, I believe the unwillingness to provide answers to basic questions should be addressed.
 
Some of us are EAGERLY awaiting the outcome of the investigations into these conspiracies to deliberately foist phony false fraudulent data off onto the American public. In the name of squeezing more tax money out of us.

One reason we are eagerly awaiting the outcome of the investigations is that we are curious who else is “on the take”.

All those ringers.

Yum!

[You just never know who is on George Soros’ payroll.]

Oh, yes.

:eek: :rolleyes: 😛

It’s gonna be like pulling a thread on a knitted sweater.

Gonna be a LOT of surprises out there!
 
East Anglia Scientists Admit Throwing Away Data

Excerpt:
“SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.”
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
 
East Anglia Scientists Admit Throwing Away Data

Excerpt:

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
No raw data means the original work is unrepeatable, unverifiable. This means it fails a fundamental step of the Scientific Method, and therefore cannot be called science.

And apparently there is no physical science in the “models.” Harry had no physical laws he was supposed to refer to. There was no energy balance as a reality check. There was no audit of physical law implementations in code. Harry and others just worked on “adjustments” to try and make TS 3.0 model outputs match TS 2.1 model outputs. They ddn’t have original raw data to even think about reproducing and validating 2.1 calculations and results. So they assumed 2.1 output was valid and forced the “newer, better” model to match it. This is not science folks.

Furthermore, the models appear to be just statistical manipulations of empirical data, data that turned out to be of dubious proxy value. The predictive ability of the models (and the underlying “theory”) was minimal (to put it nicely).
 
Suit yourselves…

Unsubscribed from a thread on a subject that has no real significance.
 
However, I do believe that the evidence is in favor of AGW/MMCC.
Let’s assume the temperature evidence reports that you value are true as are your personal climate observations. The problem is that they are not direct evidence of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW). Let’s look at the issue in more detail.

There are many competing theories for why the climate takes the temperature values it does. AGW is one of these. So is one we can call the “Dude, whatever” theory (DWT), which predicts the climate will be just what it was last year with a little added plus/minus. AGW predicts that next year will be warmer than this year, and that the year after that will be warmer than next year, and so on, except for a little plus/minus.

If glaciers are melting, it merely means that it got hot for a while and that ice melts when it gets hot. Climate temperature phenomena are therefore consistent with both theories (and many others). It does not prove AGW is correct, nor does it prove DWT is correct, nor any other theory. That is, these temperature observations are consistent with both our theories (and many others too).

The value of such theories is the abilty to predict future conditions. DWT has the advantage of being very simple, an attribute highly valued in science, does it not? Any sophisticated theory (like AGW) should be able to beat it silly in any kind of forecasting contest, right?

Well, AGW predictions do not beat DWT predictions. In fact DWT beats AGW. So which is the better theory?

DWT also beats the Nothing Ever Changes (NEC) theory, which says (among other things) that the mean global temp will always be a constant (with no plus/minus). NEC theory is the simplest we can think of, DWT is next in complexity, and AGW is the most complex. There are other theories in between the complexity of DWT and AGW that, one presumes, would beat DWT in making predictions.

Wouldn’t it be good scientific practice to examine these other theories? And shouldn’t we try them out before making major changes in economic policies world-wide?

Big hat tip to William M. Briggs. Read more here
 
So is one we can call the “Dude, whatever” theory (DWT), which predicts the climate will be just what it was last year with a little added plus/minus.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: I love this!

I think I have just been persuaded of the validity of the DWT. But I think you have neglected to extend the DWT to its practical policy ramifications. Each individual should be allowed, even encouraged, to pursue “DW” on a personal level. If, say, I am an MMGW devotee, I can stop driving, flying around in a Learjet, heating my home or even breathing if it pleases me to do it. If I am not, then I can continue to pay market prices for energy and use the energy resources the inventivness of mankind can deliver to me at a competitive cost.
 
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