Major scandal; Now proven that the entire global warming threat is based on fabricated data

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StAnastasia said:
When I led a climb of Mt. Hood in Oregon a year ago, I was shocked to find that the upper lobe of the fifty-foot thick Palmer Glacier is half the size it was when I climbed it only five years ago, in 2003.

StAnastasia
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Imagine how those people who used to farm Greenland felt when they came back home to find their farms were a solid ice sheet.

Mt Hood is Anecdotal; not scientific evidence.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
How are regular people like us, who aren’t scientists, supposed to know which scientists are telling the truth?
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Hiyas:)

Here IS the truth.

1; Man-made global warming AGW ] is a theory. speculated…subjective…theory ]
2; A theory that says CO2 is the culprit. not proven ]

3; Based on these theories…Laws are being imposed Cap-and-trade ] that will cure the problem. Can’t be proven …until you spend all the money - and then you will be asked for more money in order to prove…when ALL the money fails…oppyssses “I guess we should have listened to other environmentalists” ].

Have doubts about all three…above

Trying to hold back climate change is akin to an ant trying to hold back a speeding fright train. It would be like laws and money spent …to prevent clouds …BEFORE Hurricane Katrina even formed.

Maybe someday we might be able to outguess Nature…BUT we aren’t there yet.

How about this: Spending your money wisely. Protecting the environment with things we DO know will benefit.

Climate change IS real…it has been happening since before any industrialization. I say to you, Yeah!, before Mankind walked on earth.

CO2 IS in the atmosphere… it is an important part of plant photosynthesis. I say to you, Yeah, before Mankind walked on earth. Plants vitally need it. CO2 has been with us since before mankind…AND at much higher levels, throughout time.

People who use fear to intimidate…BE Very… very… careful of.
There are people who will try the heart-strings intimidation i.e Polar bears ].
There are people who will try Christianity to intimidate i.e…good Christians should stop having sex…because humans emit more CO2 during it ].
There are people who will bait you

IMHO…Humankind will survive Climate changes just as it did in the 1700’s, the 1800’s, the 1930’s and 1998…we are innovators.

I have put this question to anyone…many times. “Is Climate change proven to be man-made? If so, is CO2 the culprit? If so, will this Cap-and-Trade Legislation heal it?”

I have posted that question all over the web…it goes unanswered.

I hope this helps
 
Don_L said:
Imagine how those people who used to farm Greenland felt when they came back home to find their farms were a solid ice sheet.

Mt Hood is Anecdotal; not scientific evidence.
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👍👍

I wonder why people named it Greenland:rolleyes:
 
I’m convinced that the climate changes. But not convinced we are the cause or even much of a contributing factor.
I think it’s going to change from time to time whether we do anything or not.Just like it did in the Ice Age, the Medieval warming period, etc.Greenland was a good example of how things change with or without our help.
I do believe that “Global Warming” is a huge political tool & one we should be wary of.
Back in the day, faithful folk would pray when there was drouth or famine. If we experience adverse weather, prayer sounds like a safer route to go. God’s in charge.
How much praying has been going on in Copenhagen?
 
An overlooked fact in all this: This is not about science but deceit.

“The truth is the truth, even if just one believes it, and a lie is a lie, even if everyone believes it.”
 
sidbrown said:
By study and extensive reading.
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But normal people don’t have time to be an expert in all these different fields. According to this way of thinking I have to be an expert in evolution, climate science, theology, etc., just to be informed. It’s not possible.

We’re supposed to be doing our jobs and taking care of our families, not doing scientific research in all our spare time.
 
StAnastasia said:
Neil Anthony, I am with you in this question. Not being a black-and-white thinker I am convinced there are always two sides to a question. While I tend to be convinced that we are headed for perilous climatological times, I want to see the ideas on both (indeed, all) sides of this complex issue. Some people seem violently opposed to the idea that that is any truth to the concerns of much of the world about global warming. But to the people of Bolivia and Africa and Asia and the Maldives and Tuvalu and Bangladesh and Holland and Florida and many other coastal and montane areas, there are very real climatological threats to their lives and livelihoods.

When I led a climb of Mt. Hood in Oregon a year ago, I was shocked to find that the upper lobe of the fifty-foot thick Palmer Glacier is half the size it was when I climbed it only five years ago, in 2003.

StAnastasia
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I agree with you.

Something I would like to see more discussion of, though, is how we can adapt to climate change if we can’t stop it.

The environmentalists are trying to tell us now that we have to reduce the population significantly to stop climate change. But how about instead putting some effort into finding ways to benefit from climate change? Will we be able to populate and farm siberia and northern canada? What about Antarctica?

Why does a slightly warmer earth have to be a problem? If the changes happen slowly, they don’t have to be that big of a deal. Lets see some science help us prepare for the changes. When real change starts to actually occur (instead of just in science studies) then we’ll put effort into adapting. Until then, its only a problem in theory.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
I agree with you.

Something I would like to see more discussion of, though, is how we can adapt to climate change if we can’t stop it. The environmentalists are trying to tell us now that we have to reduce the population significantly to stop climate change. .
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If this is true, let them go first, ***for the good of the children *** The hypocrites are laying up riches and leaving carbon footprints that make bigfoot look like a newborn (which they’ve been killing off for convenience for decades.
 
Don_L said:
Imagine how those people who used to farm Greenland felt when they came back home to find their farms were a solid ice sheet. Mt Hood is Anecdotal; not scientific evidence.
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Anecdotal evidence is important. The people of the island of Tuvalu and other coral atolls – who are having to evacuate their ancestral homelands as they are inundated by rising sea levels – don’t need scientific evidence to know that this is an utter catastrophe for them. http://www.tuvaluislands.com/warming.htm. The moral question for us as citizens of the world is whether we need to make any sacrifices in our lifestyle to slow down and reverse global warming.

And perhaps you may conclude that we don’t have to make any such sacrifices; that it is the fault of these people to have chosen to live at sea level. That’s a hard message to convey to 100 million Bangladeshis who will become ecological refugees over the coming century. It’s a hard message for retired folk in Florida who stand to love their homes, their livelihoods, and their communities. Can we simply ignore the moral consequences of our collective actions?

StAnastasia

"Tuvalu is one of the places on earth that is most vulnerable to the affects of global warming. The threat of sea level rise may bring complete disaster to the 10,000 Tuvaluans residing on nine extremely low-lying coral atolls. "
 
StAnastasia said:
Anecdotal evidence is important. The people of the island of Tuvalu and other coral atolls – who are having to evacuate their ancestral homelands as they are inundated by rising sea levels – don’t need scientific evidence to know that this is an utter catastrophe for them. http://www.tuvaluislands.com/warming.htm. The moral question for us as citizens of the world is whether we need to make any sacrifices in our lifestyle to slow down and reverse global warming.

And perhaps you may conclude that we don’t have to make any such sacrifices; that it is the fault of these people to have chosen to live at sea level. That’s a hard message to convey to 100 million Bangladeshis who will become ecological refugees over the coming century. It’s a hard message for retired folk in Florida who stand to love their homes, their livelihoods, and their communities. Can we simply ignore the moral consequences of our collective actions?

StAnastasia

There is a lesson here - do not build below sea level. Wasn’t it our moral responsibility to not allow New Orleans to rebuild in low lying areas where there is highest risk?

"Tuvalu is one of the places on earth that is most vulnerable to the affects of global warming. The threat of sea level rise may bring complete disaster to the 10,000 Tuvaluans residing on nine extremely low-lying coral atolls. "
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StAnastasia said:
Anecdotal evidence is important. . Can we simply ignore the moral consequences of our collective actions? "
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That is precisely of what you are pushing - ***the moral consequences of collectivist actions ***-all under the guise of climate control. It’s really people control. As a Catholic, I would assume you’d be more concerned about the fact that population control is being openly put forth as a cure for AGW, yet it doesn’t seem to bother you, that these people are willing to do grave evil to humans in their planet worship.

I am far too experienced watching the left control lives (read the American Communist party goals) by using crisis (too good to waste) and people (abortion, it’s for the children) to acheive their control and this environmental nonsense is little more than a well orchestrated plan to do just that. Food crops have been forgone so their inefficient bio-fuels can be grown, and other silly things.

You worry about Tuvalu getting wet and I worry about those millions of unborn and unwanted that collectivists get rid of without concern, and the control of man’s moral choices in everything, all under the guise of global climate change.

I have watched leftist environmental propaganda in our schools over the decades to the point where frightened young children fail to see the difference between a human and a rat.

This AGW is not an accident, and rational people recognize a hoax when they see one.
 
Don_L said:
That is precisely of what you are pushing - ***the moral consequences of collectivist actions ***-all under the guise of climate control. It’s really people control. As a Catholic, I would assume you’d be more concerned about the fact that population control is being openly put forth as a cure for AGW, yet it doesn’t seem to bother you, that these people are willing to do grave evil to humans in their planet worship.

I am far too experienced watching the left control lives (read the American Communist party goals) by using crisis (too good to waste) and people (abortion, it’s for the children) to acheive their control and this environmental nonsense is little more than a well orchestrated plan to do just that. Food crops have been forgone so their inefficient bio-fuels can be grown, and other silly things.

You worry about Tuvalu getting wet and I worry about those millions of unborn and unwanted that collectivists get rid of without concern, and the control of man’s moral choices in everything, all under the guise of global climate change.

I have watched leftist environmental propaganda in our schools over the decades to the point where frightened young children fail to see the difference between a human and a rat.

This AGW is not an accident, and rational people recognize a hoax when they see one.
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You’ve been able to articulate what has been nagging at me since the beginning of this global cooling/warming alarmist movement.
 
Don_L said:
That is precisely of what you are pushing - ***the moral consequences of collectivist actions ***-all under the guise of climate control. It’s really people control. As a Catholic, I would assume you’d be more concerned about the fact that population control is being openly put forth as a cure for AGW, yet it doesn’t seem to bother you, that these people are willing to do grave evil to humans in their planet worship…You worry about Tuvalu getting wet and I worry about those millions of unborn and unwanted that collectivists get rid of without concern, and the control of man’s moral choices in everything, all under the guise of global climate change…
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Don L, I’m not sure what you think I’m pushing, or how you get from my concern about Tuvaluans drowning or losing their homes to the assumption that I might be happy running an abortion clinic or a population control center. This seems a bit of a stretch to me.

As Catholics we are concerned with actions and consequences of actions. If our actions might be causing people problem now, or problems for pour children and grandchildren, should we not be concerned about those actions? If smoking might cause cancer, should I no be concerned about smoking in a daycare center? If my driving an SUV to the corner store might be contributing to the rise of sea levels that drown island communities, should I not be concerned about that?

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
Don L, I’m not sure what you think I’m pushing, or how you get from my concern about Tuvaluans drowning or losing their homes to the assumption that I might be happy running an abortion clinic or a population control center. This seems a bit of a stretch to me.

As Catholics we are concerned with actions and consequences of actions. If our actions might be causing people problem now, or problems for pour children and grandchildren, should we not be concerned about those actions? If smoking might cause cancer, should I no be concerned about smoking in a daycare center? If my driving an SUV to the corner store might be contributing to the rise of sea levels that drown island communities, should I not be concerned about that?

StAnastasia
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Sure - but we should always consider the Catholic principle of subsidiarity
 
StAnastasia said:
Anecdotal evidence is important.
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Regarding Tuvalu, there is not even anecdotal evidence; what there is is simply hysteria.
The people of the island of Tuvalu and other coral atolls – who are having to evacuate their ancestral homelands as they are inundated by rising sea levels – don’t need scientific evidence to know that this is an utter catastrophe for them.
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Since the Pacific is not abnormally rising there is absolutely no reason that Tuvaluans need to evacuate. From the web site you referenced is an article with this comment about Australia’s National Tidal Facility: "NTF, which has a network of tide gauges across the Pacific, says absolutely not so. The Pacific shows no signs, anywhere, of rising."
Can we simply ignore the moral consequences of our collective actions?
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No, but we can surely ignore the hype, the exaggerations, and the dishonesty about what those consequences are.

Ender
 
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