Makes the heart sad

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wanner47 said:
The source appears to be this: rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/05/years-of-discussions.html

I think the members of the SSPX could do a lot more for Catholicism if they worked for change within the Church instead of apart from it.

I too grieve that Bishop Weakland was allowed to act as he did for so long, that the Notre Dame scandal happened, etc. But it is no news that there are sinners in the Church. We’ve known that since Judas. I hope and pray that God can bring good from bad situations.
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One anonymous comment said:
So, those traditional communities** in communion with **the Holy See with a canonical mission are really “imcompatible” with the faith?
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Good point. What about the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and others? Are they not ‘traditional’ enough?
 
OraProNobisIHM said:
Where has the SSPX declared this!? You are putting words in the mouths of an ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

BP. DE GALARRETA IS NOT SPEAKING AS THE SSPX. HE IS A BISHOP OF THE SSPX, BUT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THEIR VIEWS.

BISHOP FELLAY IS THE HEAD OF THE SSPX. YOU SHOULD INSTEAD LOOK FOR HIS COMMENTS ON THIS ISSUE.
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That would indicate to me a split within the split.
 
JustaServant said:
That would indicate to me a split within the split.
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Ok. And?..

Shouldn’t we be praying for their full and complete reunion?

Also, keep in mind (as Fr. Z would be sure to remind…), on some level, there is a need to “please” the benefactors of the SSPX, and this might be part of it…

In any case, we need to pray.
 
Sir_Alec said:
Have you guys grieved over the headlines of the past week?

Former Milwaukee Archbishop Admits he’s gay(and is still an Archbishop in good standing)

Abuse and torture in Irish Catholic Institutions while the heirarchy stood by and did nothing

Nobama being lauded at Notre Dame while Catholic priests are handcuffed for saying the rosary on the grounds of a Catholic Institution

Thank God for Archbishop Lefebvre.
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  1. It’s not a problem that he is gay. What is important is that he has remained celibate and chaste. The Church teaches that the homosexual ACT is the part which is sinful.
  2. This is awful, and I’m going to have to pray for atonement for the Church’s handling of all of this…
  3. Also awful. I don’t think his speaking was a problem, but giving him an HONORARY DEGREE? Ridiculous.
  4. I don’t thank God for schismatics.
 
First off, a few things.
What’s the date for this? To post this without a date (for the transcript) is horribly wrong. Things have changed in the past few months, and esp. in the past few years, at least on the Vatican side. We have no idea when this interview was published, and when it was taken.
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I got it Friday from rorartecaeli blogspot, which is not known for its liberal leanings.
 
JustaServant said:
Any group birthed in schism will continue to split from within because there is no authority.
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So you are saying the SSPX was born the day the 4 were ordained Bishops ? Sorry friend, but the more you post, the more you discredit your opinions.

You are on a crusade to protect everyone form the SSPX, but you ride without armor. :knight2:
 
JustaServant said:
And the SSPX conducts illicit sacraments by suspended clergy who claim allegence to the Pope while disregarding his authority.
I spent twenty years as a “fighting fundamentalist”. I am enjoying being a Catholic too much, praying the Rosary, going to Mass to want to fight anymore. I will let the Lord sort out who is and who is not a heretic and is going to Hell now.
There is more to tradition than just what language a Mass is in, and complaining about some liberal Bishops in Germany.
Jesus said the “gates of Hell” will not prevail against His Church.
You’ll pardon me if I take our Lord’s word for it.
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Yes, the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church. But that doesn’t mean we sit by passively and ignore the loss of faith and destruction of Christian institutions. Where would we be if St. Paul, St. Athanasius, St. Joan of Arc, Bishop Robert Grosseteste, and other giants of the faith decided to do this?
 
  1. It’s not a problem that he is gay. What is important is that he has remained celibate and chaste. The Church teaches that the homosexual ACT is the part which is sinful.
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Ummm…
 
I have seen first hand the damage ‘independent’ priests can do to people like my parents who were justly upset at the nonsense in the Churches during the 1960s and 70s. Con men in priestly garb leading double lives while publically siding with tradition. The chapel my parents belonged to was started by working class Catholics who simply wanted a Latin Mass. The first priest they had was a wonderful elderly man, a true example of what a priest should be, but he was not in good heath. After his death, the elitist wolves came in. When the you-know-what hit the fan, there was a lawsuit for control of the chapel.

I have seen first hand the damage independent Protestant churches can do, even with the best of intentions.
What makes anyone think it will be different for Catholics?
Schism leads to schism.
I returned to the Catholic Church because I had a hunger for the authority She gives. I didnt find that beyond Her walls.
I’m done with this subject.
 
Sir_Alec said:
Yes, the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church. But that doesn’t mean we sit by passively and ignore the loss of faith and destruction of Christian institutions. Where would we be if St. Paul, St. Athanasius, St. Joan of Arc, Bishop Robert Grosseteste, and other giants of the faith decided to do this?
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As I recall, St. Paul et al didn’t feel the need to break off from the Church and illicitly ordain bishops when faced with heresy within the Church.
 
JustaServant said:
And the SSPX conducts illicit sacraments by suspended clergy who claim allegence to the Pope while disregarding his authority.
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What you write isn’t technically incorrect, but it’s not the whole story either, and in the long run both sides can make an argument. It’s like saying that Catholic clergy and lay members were executed and property confiscated by the state in England after Henry VIII because Catholicism was outlawed and practicing Catholics were breaking the law. Well, that’s technically true too, but doesn’t give truth a fair hearing or paint an entire picture.
I spent twenty years as a “fighting fundamentalist”. I am enjoying being a Catholic too much, praying the Rosary, going to Mass to want to fight anymore.
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I’m glad you’re home. I must point out, however, that now that you’re a Catholic the fight is just beginning. Fight error wherever it is.
There is more to tradition than just what language a Mass is in
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This is EXACTLY why there are traditionalists today. Congratulations on your realization.
Jesus said the “gates of Hell” will not prevail against His Church.
You’ll pardon me if I take our Lord’s word for it.
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Yeah, you’re right, his Church will not err*. Now if only the guarantee had been extended to Her lay and religious members!

*certain terms and conditions apply…early termination could result in hell…:cool: I could do cell phone adds if I wanted to.
 
wanner47 said:
I think the members of the SSPX could do a lot more for Catholicism if they worked for change within the Church instead of apart from it.
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You mean like the FSSP? Haha.

Actually, I gotta let you in on a little secret. Although the Society still has “no official place in the Church” or whatever, they are still IN the Church. They are still “*a **part ***of **it”, not “*apart ***from **it” as you say.

How much more do you think they could do “inside” the Church compared with what they’re doing now? I mean, Summorum Pontificum came about 2 years after the pope’s election, the lifting of the excommunications came a year and a half after that, and now they’re starting their doctrinal talks with Rome…All of which they have been asking and praying for. To me it sounds like they’re already doing a heck of a good job!
 
CassiusLonginus said:
You mean like the FSSP? Haha.

Actually, I gotta let you in on a little secret. Although the Society still has “no official place in the Church” or whatever, they are still IN the Church. They are still “*a **part ***of **it”, not “*apart ***from **it” as you say.

How much more do you think they could do “inside” the Church compared with what they’re doing now? I mean, Summorum Pontificum came about 2 years after the pope’s election, the lifting of the excommunications came a year and a half after that, and now they’re starting their doctrinal talks with Rome…All of which they have been asking and praying for. To me it sounds like they’re already doing a heck of a good job!
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It’s the SSPX that have placed themselves apart from the Church, not the other way around.

Yes, the FSSP does excellent work, but think how much more they could do with the priests and members of the SSPX in their ranks!
 
Yes, the FSSP does excellent work, but think how much more they could do with the priests and members of the SSPX in their ranks!
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It’s gonna happen someday(not to say the SSPX will join the FSSP, but the group will be regularized, and it will be a vey happy day for the Catholic Church).
 
thunderballs75 said:
I don’t thank God for schismatics.
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I thank God for all my protestant friends, and they’re not ‘schismatics’, but material heretics! I may not like where they are, and pray for their conversion regularly, but I thank God for them nevertheless. As somebody mentioned in this thread, even broken clocks are right twice a day.

In the case of Archbishop Lefebvre…Yes, I thank God for him very much. Where would be the traditional Mass today without him? Dying off with the aging priests who never took to the new Mass until one day soon it would be gone. No Summorum Pontificum, no FSSP or other traditional groups, etc etc. I thank God for him and his incredibly difficult work which nobody else was brave enough to take on. He labored both **for **the Church and **for **souls in a way few of the Church’s clerics do. As we see, most clerics today are dead set on working against the Church. And of course Lefebvre was stigmatized by the Church (without a word of thanks from the Church except for a giant boot) in a way that truly faithless clerics aren’t. It just goes to prove his bravery. You can be any kind of Bishop today (gay, homo-hider, denier of dogma, in favor of women’s ordinations etc.), except a traditional one, yet he did it anyway. I believe both Jesus and Mary looked favorably on him and was granted to give up his ghost on the Feast of the Annunciation.

Soon people will realize what he was and will begin to thank God for him.
 
wanner47 said:
It’s the SSPX that have placed themselves apart from the Church, not the other way around.

Yes, the FSSP does excellent work, but think how much more they could do with the priests and members of the SSPX in their ranks!
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I was just pointing out that they are still in the Church even if they’re momentarily ‘irregular’, that’s all.

Yes, the FSSP does excellent work, but think how much more they could do with proper leadership!

Greetings from south Phoenix, btw.
 
Anyone who knows the facts about that man and considers him to be a Christian, let alone a Roman Catholic,
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Do your own sins mean that you are neither a Christian, nor a Roman Catholic?

Or only certain sins of certain other people–but never you and yours?
 
Cluny said:
Do your own sins mean that you are neither a Christian, nor a Roman Catholic?

Or only certain sins of certain other people–but never you and yours?
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Was this in reference to Weakland or another Bishop? If it was, here’s an answer. One’s sins don’t mean that one is not a Catholic, but rather one’s obstinate rejection of Church teaching is what will cause a person to be in this state. Sinners climb out of their sins with true contrition via confession while obstinate sinners knowingly wallow in their sins and falsely believe themselves to be clean still while trying to get everybody else just as dirty as they are.

If a person doesn’t believe what Catholics must, is that person a Catholic?

I’m not a Jew and I don’t practice the Jewish religion, but if I start calling myself a Jew can I still be considered a Jew?
 
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